Mickoo's BR modelling
- Thread starter mickoo
- Start date
OzzyO
Western Thunderer
Hello Mickoo,
I've down loaded your spreadsheet for my own use I hope that is OK?
The photos are fantastic more so the colour one.
I've had a look at the small number of photos that I have showing the rear of L.N.E.R. tender and from what I'm seeing, it looks like the corridor tender had wraparound type steps whether they had flat backs or bow ended as seen in this photo (used for reference only).
Looking at the spreadsheet this looks like it should be the tender off the W1. Do you know what was different about this tender to the 1928 type of corridor tenders?
OzzyO.
I've down loaded your spreadsheet for my own use I hope that is OK?
The photos are fantastic more so the colour one.
I've had a look at the small number of photos that I have showing the rear of L.N.E.R. tender and from what I'm seeing, it looks like the corridor tender had wraparound type steps whether they had flat backs or bow ended as seen in this photo (used for reference only).
Looking at the spreadsheet this looks like it should be the tender off the W1. Do you know what was different about this tender to the 1928 type of corridor tenders?
OzzyO.
Steph Dale
Western Thunderer
The website is now their full range and fully illustrated. Most of their castings are brass and of superlative quality; thoroughly recommended.
Steph
oldravendale
Western Thunderer
Hi Mickoo and Ozzy.
Attached not the two most wonderful shots of A4 tenders, but they may add to the debate. Both of 60024 at Waterloo 26 March 1966. If it'll help I can try lifting the density a bit which will be to the detriment of the rest of the picture but may show more detail. Let me know.
Brian
Attached not the two most wonderful shots of A4 tenders, but they may add to the debate. Both of 60024 at Waterloo 26 March 1966. If it'll help I can try lifting the density a bit which will be to the detriment of the rest of the picture but may show more detail. Let me know.
Brian
alcazar
Guest
Here you go Paul: http://www.hobbyhorse.co.uk/index.php?route=common/home
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Ozzy, yup I came to the same conclusion last night, curved steps for all corridor tenders, A3 built and A4 built. What I had also failed to comprehend is that all A3 corridor tenders (beaded) have flat backs and all A4 corridor tenders (smooth sided) are bow ended, I had in my mind that some of the A4 smooth tenders had flat backs, not so, those high sided smooth tenders with flat backs are actually non corridor tenders fitted to some A3's.
I have no idea what differences the W1 tender had, but I've just acquired the RCTS volume that details V2 and W1, there maybe something in there that might help, will check tonight.
Your more than welcome to the spreadsheet, I posted it to help others, oddly it hasn't transfered very well and looks a bit blurred, I'll do a sharper copy tonight.
I have no idea what differences the W1 tender had, but I've just acquired the RCTS volume that details V2 and W1, there maybe something in there that might help, will check tonight.
Your more than welcome to the spreadsheet, I posted it to help others, oddly it hasn't transfered very well and looks a bit blurred, I'll do a sharper copy tonight.
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mickoo
Western Thunderer
Brian, interesting, it's an A3 corridor tender, more interestingly, the only one fitted with stainless steel beading, and 4' 3" handrails, although those look the same length the loco as the tender looks nose heavy in that shot. I thought all A4's had 4'6" handrails but have a niggle some may have been 4' 3" at one point but all converted to 4' 6" by that date....something else to check tonight LOL.
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Compton castle
Western Thunderer
Very nice, they will go on the list
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Ozzy, the W1 tender is to the same design as the 1928 'new type' non corridor A3 tender except for two items, it was built with disc wheels, the A3 ones were built with spoked wheels. Originally I only thought one or two LNER eight wheel tenders had spoked wheels but they seem more prevalent the more you look, some spoked wheels even ending up on Peppercorn tenders in later years and on occasion not all axles.
The second change was the side sheet at the cab entrance, this has a turn in like other eight wheel tenders, the 1928 batch had a turn in with a distance of 6' 11" between sheets, the W1 tender was wider with a turn in of 7' 10" enough to be a visual difference even in 7mm.
Brian, A4 cab rails, the first four locos, 2509-12 (60014-17) carried the shorter 4'3" cab handrails to match the refurbished A3 corridor tenders fitted for the new high speed service, they kept these short hand rails until scrapping. The rest of the class had the longer 4'6" handrails.
The second change was the side sheet at the cab entrance, this has a turn in like other eight wheel tenders, the 1928 batch had a turn in with a distance of 6' 11" between sheets, the W1 tender was wider with a turn in of 7' 10" enough to be a visual difference even in 7mm.
Brian, A4 cab rails, the first four locos, 2509-12 (60014-17) carried the shorter 4'3" cab handrails to match the refurbished A3 corridor tenders fitted for the new high speed service, they kept these short hand rails until scrapping. The rest of the class had the longer 4'6" handrails.
mickoo
Western Thunderer
I whacked the second A4 body into the grit blaster at work, I got bored with 50psi so went full bore at 120psi, that sorted it
we use a mix of 150/300 grit and it's primarily used to grit blast Thyristor heat sinks clean, for the clueless they need to be perfectly flat and square with only a few microns of gap permissible between heat sink and Thyristor, just the slightest gap at 600v and 2000A makes quite a big spark, usually purple with a resounding crack and boom followed by a strong whiff of superheated ozone 
What a finish, all nice and clean, all detail preserved, just some light fettling to clean up the mold lines on the casing and nose and yes they really do need smoothing out, I won't do them all and will try and take a daylight photo tomorrow to highlight where you need to fettle them, it also reveals the nose rivet pattern much better and there's a couple of extra errors I hadn't noticed, thick gloss paint is my excuse for my previous remission!
I'll try the brass next week but at a much lower pressure and I'll back it with strong ply as I suspect the pressure may distort or bend the half etch parts.
mickoo
Western Thunderer
They'll be fine LOL, have faith
Might sneak into work later and give it a try, I have a spare cab etch from one of my Ebay purchases, well made was the description, it looked like the cab had been bent up around a blunt shovel so that bit is expendable for a shot blasting trial.
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Entirely up to y'all but I'm happy for it to remain here, certainly the bits I'm doing which I'll post photos up as I go along.
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Ok casing fronts....are you paying attention ALCAZAR ?
I'll start with the 1:1 and some crops of photos off the web, as usual copyright remains with the authors and are for indicative purposes only.
First up 60008 at Grantham
This is a pretty much standard front layout for fixings except the item circled, some locos have this fixing missing on both sides of the buffer casing sheets, not also double row of rivets joining the buffer casing to the nose casing behind the lamp, most locos have only one row.
Next 60015 at Kings Cross
Like above the buffer casing fastening is missing and virtually no fixings between buffer and nose casing behind the lamp, also she has two rows of three rivets on the lower door, I do not know what these are for yet, but 60014 did not have them in 1960 but did in 1961 so they may be a modification or swapping of doors between locos at works etc.
Now 60017 at Grantham
Again the three fixings on the lower door, missing buffer casing fixing and only one or two visible between the buffer and nose casing behind the lamps, historically this loco has only had one row of fixings here. I think at the last works visit they have used some flush fitting ones, as I have photos that show a full visible row on other dates. Note also a rather large patch on the upper nose casing, it looks like there maybe one on the other side too, I've seen a couple of locos like this but haven't had time to detail the whole class yet for these changes.
Here's 60034 at York
Double row of fixings between buffer casing and nose casing and on the lower door we have two rows of two fixings. Note also the top hinge has an extra two fixings over the standard 2x2 fixings for the hinges, not sure why this is but the answer may be in the photo below.
Finally 2509 as built
Very few fixings here, the four at the top outside are missing and there is only one row below down by the buffer beams. Of interest is the top lamp iron, it is mounted much higher and with two bolts, these could be the remnant fixings seen on 60034 above.
There will almost certainly be other differences through the years, some locos were camera shy and finding good quality images is difficult.
Ok the Hachette kit
A general view showing the fixing arrangements on the kit, I've also highlighted some areas that need attention, there's a mould line up there and the photo shadow shows quite clearly the over deep panel lines, the nose doors you could probably get away with but in reality, still a little too harsh for what should be fairly flush fitting doors.
The other side, there's a nick in the nose both sides that needs taking out, luckily it's not a depression but raised areas each side so you can smooth them back and retain the shape, as I've already done on the drivers side. The upper area has large flats which all need to be rounded off and smoothed in, both sides.
Main casing, this has a mould line along the shoulder, it's easy enough to smooth off but care needed in the firebox area to retain the rather nice castings, I need to check these details as I've a niggle they may be different on some locos.
Finally an overall view of the 'Plant' (maybe I should model Doncaster works
), I must get back to the A3 this weekend, I've a list of jobs I wish to accomplish before the weekend is over, the cylinder casings were so offensive they had to come off, so new casings, new splasher rears and whole new inner frames to cover those awful half etch trenches for the frame cut outs not used. Then I can add the new detailed stretchers and dummy cast horn guides and begin to 'busy up' the visual area between the frames.
Finally, I noted earlier that A4 cabs were not full V fronts, that was incorrect, they are, the safety valve cover has a V front, what concerns me know is where that photo that showed a flat front is and on which loco, or, more worryingly, I'm going slightly mad
Enjoy.
I'll start with the 1:1 and some crops of photos off the web, as usual copyright remains with the authors and are for indicative purposes only.
First up 60008 at Grantham
This is a pretty much standard front layout for fixings except the item circled, some locos have this fixing missing on both sides of the buffer casing sheets, not also double row of rivets joining the buffer casing to the nose casing behind the lamp, most locos have only one row.
Next 60015 at Kings Cross
Like above the buffer casing fastening is missing and virtually no fixings between buffer and nose casing behind the lamp, also she has two rows of three rivets on the lower door, I do not know what these are for yet, but 60014 did not have them in 1960 but did in 1961 so they may be a modification or swapping of doors between locos at works etc.
Now 60017 at Grantham
Again the three fixings on the lower door, missing buffer casing fixing and only one or two visible between the buffer and nose casing behind the lamps, historically this loco has only had one row of fixings here. I think at the last works visit they have used some flush fitting ones, as I have photos that show a full visible row on other dates. Note also a rather large patch on the upper nose casing, it looks like there maybe one on the other side too, I've seen a couple of locos like this but haven't had time to detail the whole class yet for these changes.
Here's 60034 at York
Double row of fixings between buffer casing and nose casing and on the lower door we have two rows of two fixings. Note also the top hinge has an extra two fixings over the standard 2x2 fixings for the hinges, not sure why this is but the answer may be in the photo below.
Finally 2509 as built
Very few fixings here, the four at the top outside are missing and there is only one row below down by the buffer beams. Of interest is the top lamp iron, it is mounted much higher and with two bolts, these could be the remnant fixings seen on 60034 above.
There will almost certainly be other differences through the years, some locos were camera shy and finding good quality images is difficult.
Ok the Hachette kit
A general view showing the fixing arrangements on the kit, I've also highlighted some areas that need attention, there's a mould line up there and the photo shadow shows quite clearly the over deep panel lines, the nose doors you could probably get away with but in reality, still a little too harsh for what should be fairly flush fitting doors.
The other side, there's a nick in the nose both sides that needs taking out, luckily it's not a depression but raised areas each side so you can smooth them back and retain the shape, as I've already done on the drivers side. The upper area has large flats which all need to be rounded off and smoothed in, both sides.
Main casing, this has a mould line along the shoulder, it's easy enough to smooth off but care needed in the firebox area to retain the rather nice castings, I need to check these details as I've a niggle they may be different on some locos.
Finally an overall view of the 'Plant' (maybe I should model Doncaster works
), I must get back to the A3 this weekend, I've a list of jobs I wish to accomplish before the weekend is over, the cylinder casings were so offensive they had to come off, so new casings, new splasher rears and whole new inner frames to cover those awful half etch trenches for the frame cut outs not used. Then I can add the new detailed stretchers and dummy cast horn guides and begin to 'busy up' the visual area between the frames.Finally, I noted earlier that A4 cabs were not full V fronts, that was incorrect, they are, the safety valve cover has a V front, what concerns me know is where that photo that showed a flat front is and on which loco, or, more worryingly, I'm going slightly mad
Enjoy.
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