Isaac Dixon
- Thread starter spikey faz
- Start date
Osgood
Western Thunderer
Suggested in one source as built 1868 by Black Hawthorn, above photo taken in 1924.
But in another as a product of Neath Abbey Ironworks, starting off life with a rounded tank:
www.rmweb.co.uk
But in another as a product of Neath Abbey Ironworks, starting off life with a rounded tank:
Neilson Tank Engines Boxy and Not Boxy
www.rmweb.co.uk
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Osgood
Western Thunderer
In which case it might have originally looked vaguely like this specimen (that has many components unlike the pic above e.g. slidebars):
A fascinating collection of drawings survives from Neath Abbey Ironworks:
www.walesonline.co.uk
A fascinating collection of drawings survives from Neath Abbey Ironworks:
Historic Neath Abbey archives to be preserved online
They are regarded as important as the Domesday Book and Winston Churchill's papers - a rare collection from a Welsh ironworks is now to be conserved
www.walesonline.co.uk
Osgood
Western Thunderer
Just reading through the long and interesting thread on RMW, came across this further info on ANT which offers a Boulton connection:
'Ant used to be "Queen of the Forest" owned by Boulton which he bought from the Delamere forest which it worked there in 1862, regauged and sold in 1872 to Kirkleathan iron co. near Middlesborough, he bought it again in 1876 renaming her "Ant", and regauging to 2' 8" and hired to D.Owen of Swansea, again in 1978 to 2' 11" for Butterworth & Brooks of Manchester'.
PhilH
Western Thunderer
"The Chronicles of Boulton's Siding" has drawings of QUEEN OF THE FOREST on page 241 and ANT on page 242. Comparing the latter drawing with the photo of ANT shows a lot of differences and maybe there was a certain amount of "artistic licence" in the drawings in the book.
One feature common to ANT and ISAAC DIXON is the blower pipe running over the top of the tank to the chimney with the jet presumably in the chimney rather than in the smokebox.
Butterworth & Brooks had the Hutch Bank Quarry just to the west of Haslingden and a much longer line over the moors between Haslingden and Rochdale. ANT is believed to have worked at both and the gauge is given as 2'-11½" or 3'-0".
One feature common to ANT and ISAAC DIXON is the blower pipe running over the top of the tank to the chimney with the jet presumably in the chimney rather than in the smokebox.
Butterworth & Brooks had the Hutch Bank Quarry just to the west of Haslingden and a much longer line over the moors between Haslingden and Rochdale. ANT is believed to have worked at both and the gauge is given as 2'-11½" or 3'-0".
Osgood
Western Thunderer
Both Boulton's Siding drawings show round tanks to generally the same pattern as the Neath Abbey engine No 8 above.
The drawing of QUEEN OF THE FOREST shows two sets of Salter safety valves - on firebox top and on dome in centre of tank!
Who knows if the tank might have been replaced by Boulton before final sale - the drawing of ANT is stated to represent the engine after thorough repair in 1876, and it was then hired prior to sale in 1878.
For an old engine like this a further major rebuild between then and 1924 seems inevitable.
And the square tank appears to be a Boulton staple - so ISAAC fits well in.
The drawing of QUEEN OF THE FOREST shows two sets of Salter safety valves - on firebox top and on dome in centre of tank!
Who knows if the tank might have been replaced by Boulton before final sale - the drawing of ANT is stated to represent the engine after thorough repair in 1876, and it was then hired prior to sale in 1878.
For an old engine like this a further major rebuild between then and 1924 seems inevitable.
And the square tank appears to be a Boulton staple - so ISAAC fits well in.
Overseer
Western Thunderer
Are we sure the photo of Ant shows Boulton's Ant? The proportions and wheel size don't look the same to me. The drawing of Boulton's Ant show a round top tank like Queen of the Forest. The photo on page 266, Figure 90, shows Queen of the Forest in the background looking much like the drawing. Two separate safety valves were common in earlier times, one was out of the drivers reach to 'prevent' the safety valve being held down by the driver.
I have added some scans of Figure 90 from the first edition of The Chronicles of Boulton's Siding as I realised the D&C reprint version is a bit dark. Queen of the Forest is sitting in the dirt surrounded by all sorts of ancient locos.
I have added some scans of Figure 90 from the first edition of The Chronicles of Boulton's Siding as I realised the D&C reprint version is a bit dark. Queen of the Forest is sitting in the dirt surrounded by all sorts of ancient locos.
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Osgood
Western Thunderer
No this we is not. Too many detail differences, cannot identify origin of source information, and I imagine a popular name for a tiny engine.
Interesting re. separated safety valves - I did wake up in the early hours wondering if they were just one valve in each position (at this early date did all boilers even have two?).
spikey faz
Western Thunderer
Really good closeup of the blower pipe.
I'll do something like that on Isaac Dixon.Thank you
Mike
spikey faz
Western Thunderer
Another great picture which has lots of useful detail (which I'll probably misinterpret!In which case it might have originally looked vaguely like this specimen (that has many components unlike the pic above e.g. slidebars):
View attachment 232914
A fascinating collection of drawings survives from Neath Abbey Ironworks:
Historic Neath Abbey archives to be preserved online
They are regarded as important as the Domesday Book and Winston Churchill's papers - a rare collection from a Welsh ironworks is now to be conserved
). I've been eyeing up some LG Miniatures parts to decorate what there is of the cab.Mike
Crimson Rambler
Western Thunderer
@spikey faz The picture of No 8 Plymouth looks to me very much to have been built by Fletcher Jennings of Whitehaven.
Compatre it to Talyllyn Railway No 1 Talyllyn
Crimson Rambler
Compatre it to Talyllyn Railway No 1 Talyllyn
Crimson Rambler
Osgood
Western Thunderer
Some interesting thoughts from Andy Kirkham here:
Is this what Talyllyn No.1 originally looked like?
While googling for information about locomotives built by Neath Abbey ironworks, I came across this page on the BBC website from 2013 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-25020478 . As I can never resist a picture of a cute narrow gauge loco, the second picture down particularly caught my attention...
www.rmweb.co.uk
No 8 carries an oval builders plate - FJ used oval plates at one time but the wording layout on No 8 doesn't quite match up with the style of the FJ plates:
File:Im20240421 120514.jpg - Graces Guide
I read that Neath Abbey built around 65 locomotives (from very early times) - if FJ engines were obtained new or s/hand for the ironworks I wonder if they later built some copies (ref. Andy K's mention of numbering up to 6).
Edit: From Graces Guide (Neath Abbey Iron Co) comes info that locomotive manufacture ceased in 1880 by which time around 35 had been built.
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spikey faz
Western Thunderer
I guess we'll never really know exactly how the prototype looked, but I am pleased that so many people have taken an interest in this little project. My somewhat sketchy understanding of how the real thing works does mean I often overlook the obvious, so please keep your suggestions coming in.
Although the body still has some way to go, the chassis is getting close to completion. To try and keep the front pick-up wires from floating about, I soldered some brass wire hoops to the inside of the chassis. They tuck in under the footplate and along with the pick-up wire should be largely invisible. I did consider glueing a pcb bus-bar along the chassis but I thought this would be neater.
Mike
Although the body still has some way to go, the chassis is getting close to completion. To try and keep the front pick-up wires from floating about, I soldered some brass wire hoops to the inside of the chassis. They tuck in under the footplate and along with the pick-up wire should be largely invisible. I did consider glueing a pcb bus-bar along the chassis but I thought this would be neater.
Mike
Crimson Rambler
Western Thunderer
Page from Fletcher Jennings catalogue after No 1 had been changed into an 0-4-2ST from its original 0-4-0ST configuration.
Note the oval maker's plate rather than the fancy oblong fitted to the engine and usually associated with F J & Co. Also of interest is the buffer design, thin chimney with band, cast ribbed driving wheels, horizontal cylinders with long stroke, shape of the slide bars and their attachment to the motion bracket etc.......
Crimson Rambler
Note the oval maker's plate rather than the fancy oblong fitted to the engine and usually associated with F J & Co. Also of interest is the buffer design, thin chimney with band, cast ribbed driving wheels, horizontal cylinders with long stroke, shape of the slide bars and their attachment to the motion bracket etc.......
Crimson Rambler
spikey faz
Western Thunderer
I'm pleased to report that the combination of the OO Gibson wheels on S7 gauge track seems to work. Or at least nothing has fallen off yet!
I still wasn't able to get the wheels exactly square on the axles, but the whole thing runs far better than I was expecting. Result!!
The motor/gearbox is particularly sweet running and I can thoroughly recommend it.
Mike
I still wasn't able to get the wheels exactly square on the axles, but the whole thing runs far better than I was expecting. Result!!
The motor/gearbox is particularly sweet running and I can thoroughly recommend it.
Mike