In and Out Buildings - Thoughts and Research
- Thread starter Focalplane
- Start date
Focalplane
Western Thunderer
PMs exchanged, the deal has been done!
Focalplane
Western Thunderer
Notice in the photo of Moor Street during the major roadworks around the Bull Ring that there are three buses! I only have room for one.
Focalplane
Western Thunderer
OK, back to the project!
I have just sent an email off to KEOP, at logcabins.co.uk to get an updated cost estimate. The dimensions stay the same but the windows and doors have changed a bit. Here is my current specification:
Footprint
5m x 6m on 5.2m x 6.2m slab foundation
Style
Classic roof 19° slope
Apex orientation parallel to 5m sides
One internal open space
45 mm log thickness
Front wall
6m wide with up and over metal (optional brown) garage door UT to left, no windows. No overhang.
Rear wall
6m wide, no windows, no overhang
Left side wall
5m wide, two VRL dg windows, uniformly spaced. Gutter and down pipe option.
Right side wall
5m wide, one VDD12 dg French door near right end, one or two VRG dg windows uniformly spaced to left of French door. Gutter and down pipe option. (Comment - the French doors will allow easy movement of larger components to a small terrace outside as well as the existing workshop which will be used mainly for paint spraying. This terraced area will be separate from the rest of the garden.)
Roof
Red felt shingles
The placement of doors and windows won't make much sense from this list but they take into account various other structures and pathways around the building.
The red roof will match the house (red clay tiles, recently de-mossed).
KEOP strongly recommend Sandolin products so I have been watching their videos this afternoon. The first thing that needs to be done is to apply preservative, then the decorative coating(s). It is recommended that the interior walls be treated much the same way as the exterior walls in that it is a garage and therefore can be humid at times. Coating both outside and inside will prevent warping. The choice of external colour(s) has yet to be made but a light white colour would be best for light distribution within the interior.
Although the modular rubber matting is quite expensive, this seems to be a very worthwhile addition. And with 30 sq. meters of roof, guttering will provide plenty of run off for gardening water (two butts came with the property).
I have a qualified electrician lined up to do the wiring. This will include enough amperage for oil filled radiator heating and power tools such as a table saw, etc.
Now, timing! Once the order for the building is submitted and a deposit paid, the waiting period for delivery is around 12 weeks. As we hope to be off to France when the respective governments agree to us doing so, it would make sense to have the kit delivered on our return, which we plan to be in mid-July. Although August can be a rainy month, we are hoping that much of the construction and painting can be done then. We will probably have KEOP do the construction (it's inexpensive and is normally done in one working day!)
My next research will be the fitting out of the workshop and deciding what goes where and what may need to be acquired. I am hoping not too much!
I have just sent an email off to KEOP, at logcabins.co.uk to get an updated cost estimate. The dimensions stay the same but the windows and doors have changed a bit. Here is my current specification:
Footprint
5m x 6m on 5.2m x 6.2m slab foundation
Style
Classic roof 19° slope
Apex orientation parallel to 5m sides
One internal open space
45 mm log thickness
Front wall
6m wide with up and over metal (optional brown) garage door UT to left, no windows. No overhang.
Rear wall
6m wide, no windows, no overhang
Left side wall
5m wide, two VRL dg windows, uniformly spaced. Gutter and down pipe option.
Right side wall
5m wide, one VDD12 dg French door near right end, one or two VRG dg windows uniformly spaced to left of French door. Gutter and down pipe option. (Comment - the French doors will allow easy movement of larger components to a small terrace outside as well as the existing workshop which will be used mainly for paint spraying. This terraced area will be separate from the rest of the garden.)
Roof
Red felt shingles
The placement of doors and windows won't make much sense from this list but they take into account various other structures and pathways around the building.
The red roof will match the house (red clay tiles, recently de-mossed).
KEOP strongly recommend Sandolin products so I have been watching their videos this afternoon. The first thing that needs to be done is to apply preservative, then the decorative coating(s). It is recommended that the interior walls be treated much the same way as the exterior walls in that it is a garage and therefore can be humid at times. Coating both outside and inside will prevent warping. The choice of external colour(s) has yet to be made but a light white colour would be best for light distribution within the interior.
Although the modular rubber matting is quite expensive, this seems to be a very worthwhile addition. And with 30 sq. meters of roof, guttering will provide plenty of run off for gardening water (two butts came with the property).
I have a qualified electrician lined up to do the wiring. This will include enough amperage for oil filled radiator heating and power tools such as a table saw, etc.
Now, timing! Once the order for the building is submitted and a deposit paid, the waiting period for delivery is around 12 weeks. As we hope to be off to France when the respective governments agree to us doing so, it would make sense to have the kit delivered on our return, which we plan to be in mid-July. Although August can be a rainy month, we are hoping that much of the construction and painting can be done then. We will probably have KEOP do the construction (it's inexpensive and is normally done in one working day!)
My next research will be the fitting out of the workshop and deciding what goes where and what may need to be acquired. I am hoping not too much!
Yorkshire Dave
Western Thunderer
While sorting out the power sockets I would also consider having some wall mounted German type F (Schuko) sockets and possibly some French type E sockets installed as well as the standard UK sockets. This means you can use German and French tools (if you have any in the UK) without buying adapters. I would also include two wall mounted USB charging sockets on the workbench for phones.
Apologies if this is teaching one to suck eggs etc. Don't underestimate the number of power sockets required
. I carried out an exercise totting up the number of sockets I would require in a shed and it totalled 20 to ensure I did not have to use 3 way adapters (which can easily be overloaded). Made up of 5 German earthed Schuko sockets (pillar drill, hand held drill, soldering iron, Roco DCC power supply + 1 spare) and 15 UK sockets (2nd soldering iron, 2 x DC controllers, oil filled radiator, DCC power supply, fridge, radio, laptop, monitor, lamp, mains wifi extender + 3 spare. I would also mount my sockets at waist or just above workbench height. Of course not everything would be in use at the same time but it makes cable management easier to avoid trailing cables and reaching over items to unplug/plug them.
Apologies if this is teaching one to suck eggs etc. Don't underestimate the number of power sockets required
. I carried out an exercise totting up the number of sockets I would require in a shed and it totalled 20 to ensure I did not have to use 3 way adapters (which can easily be overloaded). Made up of 5 German earthed Schuko sockets (pillar drill, hand held drill, soldering iron, Roco DCC power supply + 1 spare) and 15 UK sockets (2nd soldering iron, 2 x DC controllers, oil filled radiator, DCC power supply, fridge, radio, laptop, monitor, lamp, mains wifi extender + 3 spare. I would also mount my sockets at waist or just above workbench height. Of course not everything would be in use at the same time but it makes cable management easier to avoid trailing cables and reaching over items to unplug/plug them.
Last edited:
Focalplane
Western Thunderer
Dave
All very good advice. We returned from Texas with more transformers than you can imagine. One powered our fridge freezer for 20 years until it finally died. I have a number of Waterford 110v crystal lamps which cannot be converted to 220 volts and these still work 20 years later. Transformers are good for spiking electricity, I think, and protect the fittings from lightning strikes, etc.
Ironically, the existing wiring in the old workshop is based on LeGrand equipment, so a few European sockets will not be too confusing.
Thanks, Paul
All very good advice. We returned from Texas with more transformers than you can imagine. One powered our fridge freezer for 20 years until it finally died. I have a number of Waterford 110v crystal lamps which cannot be converted to 220 volts and these still work 20 years later. Transformers are good for spiking electricity, I think, and protect the fittings from lightning strikes, etc.
Ironically, the existing wiring in the old workshop is based on LeGrand equipment, so a few European sockets will not be too confusing.
Thanks, Paul
michael080
Western Thunderer
There is no need to have both. All plugs I have seen in the last 20 years fit into German and French sockets. However, the price for continental sockets in the UK may excel the savings in adapters.
Michael
Focalplane
Western Thunderer
I keep two lists active on my computer. Things to buy in France for the UK and things to buy in the UK for France. I have to admit that the France to UK list is longer (wine, cheese, foie gras) than the list from the UK to France (cheddar cheese for my grand niece). The model railway list from the UK does tend to balance things out.
Focalplane
Western Thunderer
The basic Metro-Camm body design screamed 1930. I loved pre-war buses, but putting a tin front on one to make it look mod was akin to streamlining a Super D.
I remember the size difference between the the Midland Red and the BCT buses rather like I see the difference in width between my 1935 and 1953 Rileys.
Focalplane
Western Thunderer
Here is a photo of an “ideal” car restoration workshop plan
It’s from a classic book by R, Wheatley and B. Morgan, the Restoration of Vintage and Thoroughbred Cars, published in 1957. No longer in print but available second hand. Note some of the desirable features.
First of all, my railway room in France has no windows. So good lighting had to be installed. Not having windows for a model railway may be an advantage in that the temperature and humidity tend to be more stable.
Next, there is a lot to be said for the partition. Various toxic fumes can be generated in the workshop that could have undesirable effects on both cars and model railways. The authors suggest the added security of a good dust sheet over a car, while the same could apply to a layout.
Plenty of room is always a luxury we usually can’t have. That’s why the plan above is “ideal”.
The layout of benches and machines is up to the individual to decide but clean and not so clean work can and should be kept apart. A “shop vac” probably wasn’t high on the list back in the 1950s but would be considered essential these days. Storage is another problem, both for parts and supplies. Lots of shelving is suggested in the text, certainly also approriate for model railways.
The second house we rented in Singapore had a basement under the entire house which had garage doors permitting the storage, at one time, of 12 cars belonging to various club members. Being a rental there was only so much we could do to furnish the space. And then the property was purchased and demolished to make way for the Pan Island Expressway. Such a pity!
It’s from a classic book by R, Wheatley and B. Morgan, the Restoration of Vintage and Thoroughbred Cars, published in 1957. No longer in print but available second hand. Note some of the desirable features.
- Plenty of windows
- A partition between garage and workshop
- Room either side of the inspection pit for a dissembled car, chassis in middle, body to one side, drive train to the other
- The layout of benches and machine tools
- Two lifting joists
First of all, my railway room in France has no windows. So good lighting had to be installed. Not having windows for a model railway may be an advantage in that the temperature and humidity tend to be more stable.
Next, there is a lot to be said for the partition. Various toxic fumes can be generated in the workshop that could have undesirable effects on both cars and model railways. The authors suggest the added security of a good dust sheet over a car, while the same could apply to a layout.
Plenty of room is always a luxury we usually can’t have. That’s why the plan above is “ideal”.
The layout of benches and machines is up to the individual to decide but clean and not so clean work can and should be kept apart. A “shop vac” probably wasn’t high on the list back in the 1950s but would be considered essential these days. Storage is another problem, both for parts and supplies. Lots of shelving is suggested in the text, certainly also approriate for model railways.
The second house we rented in Singapore had a basement under the entire house which had garage doors permitting the storage, at one time, of 12 cars belonging to various club members. Being a rental there was only so much we could do to furnish the space. And then the property was purchased and demolished to make way for the Pan Island Expressway. Such a pity!
simond
Western Thunderer
Paul,
It would be nice, probably needs more storage of materials & “stuff” (if my garage is anything to go by) and the pit might nowadays be better replaced by a two post lift.
Cellars. My rare visits to homes in the US and Europe suggests the majority of houses have a cellar, probably approaching the size of the whole house. I can’t imagine why that’s not normal in the UK, it would be so useful.
and crammed with stuff.
Atb
Simon
It would be nice, probably needs more storage of materials & “stuff” (if my garage is anything to go by) and the pit might nowadays be better replaced by a two post lift.
Cellars. My rare visits to homes in the US and Europe suggests the majority of houses have a cellar, probably approaching the size of the whole house. I can’t imagine why that’s not normal in the UK, it would be so useful.
and crammed with stuff.
Atb
Simon
Focalplane
Western Thunderer
One observation from the Wheatley and Morgan book is their list of recommended firms in an appendix. 85% of the companies were based in the Midlands. Not many survive today, their successors are often in more rural areas like Bicester or Salisbury.
I just heard that the landscape contractors are on their way so I may get a quote for the slab later on.
I just heard that the landscape contractors are on their way so I may get a quote for the slab later on.
Deano747
Western Thunderer
My wife and I wondered that when we recently saw a pair of detached new-builds, starting with cellars. Private builders though!
Regards, Rob.
Dave Sutton
Active Member
Without going too far off topic re- Cellars.
There are several reasons why cellars aren't popular in the Uk, but a couple are; In the UK you have to dispose of soil as most sites are cramped and there isn't the ability to spread it around and raise the ground level. This makes groundworks expensive if you're digging out large areas.
We also have new housing that complies with Part M building regs and the disability act. Simplistically this means that houses have to have a level way into the house (ie no steps) so it precludes the popular (in the US) raised front porch with semi sunken cellar design.
There are several reasons why cellars aren't popular in the Uk, but a couple are; In the UK you have to dispose of soil as most sites are cramped and there isn't the ability to spread it around and raise the ground level. This makes groundworks expensive if you're digging out large areas.
We also have new housing that complies with Part M building regs and the disability act. Simplistically this means that houses have to have a level way into the house (ie no steps) so it precludes the popular (in the US) raised front porch with semi sunken cellar design.
Last edited:
Focalplane
Western Thunderer
Well, I received a good quote for the building this afternoon and having shown keen interest I will get a 3D impression of the building next. Assuming I like what I see I will post it on this thread.
Also this afternoon the ground worker who has started to remove a derelict pond and terrace saw the site for the garage workshop and will work up a quote for the foundation slab. His timing will be to coincide the foundation with the concrete footings for the new terrace. This means the slab should be in by June and once I feel certain of that the building can be ordered.
So some progress today.
Cellars aren't really off topic, Dave, in that they are often used for model railways in Canada and elsewhere. Where I worked in the US there were no cellars. Houston is a very flat city with large bayous that burst their levees during tropical storms. Cellars simply don't stand a chance! At the coast many houses are raised on stilts and still get pounded to pieces during hurricanes.
Also this afternoon the ground worker who has started to remove a derelict pond and terrace saw the site for the garage workshop and will work up a quote for the foundation slab. His timing will be to coincide the foundation with the concrete footings for the new terrace. This means the slab should be in by June and once I feel certain of that the building can be ordered.
So some progress today.
Cellars aren't really off topic, Dave, in that they are often used for model railways in Canada and elsewhere. Where I worked in the US there were no cellars. Houston is a very flat city with large bayous that burst their levees during tropical storms. Cellars simply don't stand a chance! At the coast many houses are raised on stilts and still get pounded to pieces during hurricanes.
simond
Western Thunderer
Ah, yes. My experience of that continent is limited to a sadly very brief sojourn in Vancouver, a few weeks in Edmonton, a couple of short visits to Toronto, months and months in Detroit, and the odd trip a little further south and maybe east, so perhaps hurricane alley, and the bayou might be a bit different.
that said, we don’t have much in the way of bayou, or hurricanes, in Kent!
that said, we don’t have much in the way of bayou, or hurricanes, in Kent!
Focalplane
Western Thunderer
I have now received a 3D drawing of the structure and it passes muster. It's a pdf file so I am not sure if I can load it. So screen captures follow.
I am still waiting on the ground workers' estimate but we have at least agreed on the necessary design. Although I could do some of the work myself I think I will pay to let younger folk do it for me! There is half a load of landfill material in the front drive now so I can slowly add to it myself, then have it hauled away. That will help my finances!
Incidentally, the final finish of the garage workshop will be very different from the 3D rendition. We have yet to decide the final finish but after applying Cuprinol wood preservative we will be using Sadolin stains, inside and out, allowing "full wood breathing". We will probably match the planned exterior painting of the house and other outbuildings.
I am still waiting on the ground workers' estimate but we have at least agreed on the necessary design. Although I could do some of the work myself I think I will pay to let younger folk do it for me! There is half a load of landfill material in the front drive now so I can slowly add to it myself, then have it hauled away. That will help my finances!
Incidentally, the final finish of the garage workshop will be very different from the 3D rendition. We have yet to decide the final finish but after applying Cuprinol wood preservative we will be using Sadolin stains, inside and out, allowing "full wood breathing". We will probably match the planned exterior painting of the house and other outbuildings.