In and Out Buildings - Thoughts and Research

AJC

Western Thunderer
Coincidentally I've been sorting out tarps today!
Here's one of several I acquired from the sheet maker who used to be in part of the old Melton Constable Works (M&GNJR).
Recognise the logo?
They are ex. china clay high-bar open wagons and have been keeping some of my old machinery and trucks dry for the last 28 years.
I imagine they date from the late 60s - does anyone know when that logo came into use?
This one has gone a little brittle (sorry, a Michael Crawford moment) so I managed to offload it onto a friend after lunch for further service protecting his old Gardner LW engines.
Another was too far gone so is now on the waste pile - a good innings.
Still have another three giving sterling service.
View attachment 139593

A bit later - the fixed hoods came along in the early '70s (and I'm not certain they were blue to start with); one of dad's early scratchbuilt wagons represents the prototype of the conversion, apparently which he saw when newly released to traffic. The logo was around in the '50s if not earlier, witness this: Tamar Bridge construction (dad's earliest memories of Saltash include these two-stroke Commers going up the hill).

Adam
 

Ressaldar

Western Thunderer
Big younger brother, by the way, is a 1953 Riley 1-1/2 litre. Beautiful post war cars that are one of the bargains in today’s classic car market.

Still searching for some interior photos.

Hi Paul.

enjoying these pictures and reminds me that one of the senior site engineers on the Stornoway airfield contract in 1963 had one of these and it was his pride and joy.

regards

Mike
 

Focalplane

Western Thunderer
Paul,
Thank you, a pleasure to look at over a nice glass of red on a Friday evening. I've a 1960 TR3a and have this week sold my 1965 S1 E type. I also have what I consider a modern day classic, a 2018 Alpine A110.

Tim

View attachment 139622

Tim, an interesting car, the Alpine. But 2018?

Series 1 E Types were great fun, nothing like it though I did enjoy half ownership of an XK140. My older brother, married with three young boys, decided one would be the ideal family car. They all came to visit me from Birmingham to Southampton in 1967/8. Crazy!
 

Tim Humphreys ex Mudhen

Western Thunderer
Paul,

One of the original A110 Berlinettes was always, my dream. Back in the early 1970's when I first saw one there was no hope of affording it, nowadays I guess a really good one, if available, would be £125k. The other issue is access, they're pretty small, the E Type is a tight fit and the Alpine even smaller. My alternative in those days was a couple of Ginetta G15s, great little cars.
I had the E Type for 11 years and had got it into excellent condition, in fact too good to use for fear of spoiling it. Additionally it had become quite valuable and when I discovered what I could get for it decided that the time was right to sell.
The modern Alpine has for me all the requirements of a 'classic car'. Good looking, in my opinion, light, quick, great handling and practical and not too expensive.

all the best
Tim
 

Focalplane

Western Thunderer
I have been scanning and improving some 45 year old colour prints from the Singapore days and two include the green tarp. It was used to extend the car port at the house we rented in Clementi Park, giving a bit more shelter for restoring cars.

The general idea!

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Next, a photo of the MG’s frame being cleaned up and primed with good old Red Lead Paint!

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Next, applying Dulux gloss black. 3 coats of primer, 3 of gloss. Today I would use Hammerite on some legal primer base.

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And finally, the finished chassis, under the tarp.

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All this “shade tree” mechanic stuff works in warm climates, but not in the UK!
 

Focalplane

Western Thunderer
The recent spate of heavy rain and high winds has resulted in some additional thoughts about the garage/workshop design.

As noted in the above posting, so called "shade tree mechanics" cannot easily function in a wet and cold climate, so the green tarpaulin may well function as a temporary shelter during the summer months to shield parts from getting wet while being worked on outside. To this end, a pair of French Doors* would be a better feature than a single door. The tarpaulin would be removed each winter.

Drainage after heavy rain is also to be a consideration. So the foundation should be higher than the surrounding area and have ACO drains fitted in front of the up and over door as well as the French Doors. These drains need to have a reasonable but not large soak away (the ground is Chalk so has a good capacity to absorb all but the heaviest of rainfall). Gutters need to be installed and can catch rain water for use in the garden. Excess water can be diverted to the soak aways.

Having a higher ground level to the building has an additional advantage - more room to accommodate a lot of surplus rubble under the slab. The access ramp for cars will need to be sloped up to the ACO drain, while the French Door could be a simple step down onto a future terraced area. Edit to add that this last sentence doesn’t make sense! If the access ramp slopes up to the door there is no need for an ACO drain, particularly as I will install guttering.

Once I have cleared the area it will be interesting to see how much slope there will be to level. I am guessing not too much, but such things can be deceiving. Again, there may be the opportunity to use up more rubble rather than pay for it to be carted away.

* I have no idea what they are called in France, but in England, at least, they are usually referred to as French Windows, while in America I got used to them being called French Doors. Of course, "doors" is a more logical term than "windows". Opinions on that may vary.
 
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Focalplane

Western Thunderer
Dave, may I offer up this as a piece of evidence.

The late and great Gerard Hoffnung spoke of an Austrian landlady writing a letter to his wife explaining that her guest house had “a French Widow in every bedroom affording excellent prospects”. This in his after dinner speech to the Oxford Union in 1960.

The entire speech was recorded and posthumously released as an LP, of which I have a copy. Somewhere!

Paul
 

LarryG

Western Thunderer
Pre-selector box.....They have not been familiar in cars for years and I for one would have to have my wits about me! Driver experiences on Oldham corporation's Daimler buses taught me to be very wary of the selector pedal shooting out of the floor on my own bus. My fathers pre-war Lanchester was a pre-selector.
 
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Focalplane

Western Thunderer
Here is an official photo of the 4 speed pre-selector box used in many cars during the 1930s. They were made by ENV and Armstrong Siddeley, my Kestrel has the latter.

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Each “gear” is selected by a lever on the steering wheel, then the clutch pedal is “pumped” and the gear is changed automatically. It is possible to skip a gear if that’s appropriate, so, for example, you could coast to a stop at a traffic light still in 4th and preselect 1st for the getaway. Just don’t pump the clutch while still coasting at 40mph!

The clutch itself can be used just like a clutch with a standard gearbox design, which makes the system much more forgiving.

Why did they fall out of favour? The application of synchromesh doomed the preselector to oblivion no doubt because it is simpler to design and manufacture. Having driven several “crash” boxes without synchromesh and needing to master double declutching on a strange car while its owner is in the passenger seat is not much fun.

Personally I like the preselector concept. Despite the epicyclic gears looking very fragile they are remarkably stable and only need frequent oil changes to live a long life. One downside is that they can be noisy as they get old, just like their owners!
 
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Allen M

Western Thunderer
Only used pre-selector gear box briefly, on a BSA Dandy scooter I hated it.
As to double de-clutching. I learnt to drive on a 1938 Fordson 10cwt van/estate conversion with 3 speed crash box. This was 1958 and passed my test in 1959.
About 1962/3 I worked for a company who had an 850cc Mini van a couple of years old. Of the 6 0r 7 people who drove it I was the only one who could change down with out painful noises. Oh happy days!
Regards
Allen
 

LarryG

Western Thunderer
I love the sound of the pre-selector gearbox. I recommend the video below for anyone wanting a pre-selector fix! The driver of this Pre-war Birmingham Corporation Daimler COG6 allows the engine revs to die down before engaging which I find unusual. I'm used to the change being instant. Such a gear-change would ensure the bus would loose no momentum on a hill...

Double de-clutching, I used it all the time on PD2's and AEC Regents. A Crosville driver gave me the tip, as that tight-fisted company bought crash boxes most of the time.
 
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JimG

Western Thunderer
As to double de-clutching. I learnt to drive on a 1938 Fordson 10cwt van/estate conversion with 3 speed crash box.

I learned to double de-clutch as a child. My father had a 1932 Wolesley Hornet with a four gear crash box and I would act as a pre-selector for my father and change the gears for him. I had to watch his clutch foot like a hawk. If I remember correctly, third to second was the dodgy one since in going across the gate you could overshoot into reverse. :) I learned to drive on that car and I still occasionally do double de-clutches on the modern synchromesh boxes. :)

Jim.
 

LarryG

Western Thunderer
Gearboxes! My Standard Eight had a long lever that flopped all over the place. We managed to get a girl in between me and a fellow worker and as I made a quick sweep into second for a nippy pull-away, my hand and gearstick went between her legs. Watching traffic, I had no idea until I went for third then I went red. She just stared ahead and we all kept quiet. When the passenger seat was vacated, she slipped into it and asked me what I thought of her chrochered nickers. A real pro......:D
 

Focalplane

Western Thunderer
Not just a pre-selector fix, Larry, that’s where I grew up! My mother learned to drive when she was 45 because my father never did. She then had to go to work in the Jewellery Quarter from Earlswood and this was the only route she knew, past Hollywood, Kings Heath and Ladywood. Close one street and she was lost!

We lived outside Birmingham city limits so the local bus into town was run by Midland Red. Once at the Bull Ring I would walk across to Victoria Square and catch a Lodge Road 96 to the top of Newhall Hill. BCT livery was the best!

The sound of the bus’s engine and gearbox is indeed magic to nostalgic ears. And the steering wheel, no power assistance in those days. Which is why, I think, the driver dropped the revs at the start of the run as he had a sharp turn to make.
 

Osgood

Western Thunderer
How does that little preselector box work, Paul?
Do you have to pump the clutch to get it to actuate, or just ease off the power?

The Eaton Twin-splitter truck box, which is effectively a 4 speed box with 3 ranges, can (or could - are there any left out there?) be driven without using the clutch other than for starting off.
While moving and keeping power on you preselect the next gear, and if you just back off on the throttle momentarily when appropriate the box will change as soon as it senses no torque from the engine.
The reverse when slowing down - with the gear pre-selected, when you momentarily zap the throttle the box senses the reduction of braking torque and changes up.

Anyway, passes the time while we wait for your delivery of concrete :D
 

Focalplane

Western Thunderer
Tony

Yes, I do think you need to "pump" the clutch pedal to change gear. Truth is, that's what I have always done so I feel sure that the Eaton box was designed differently. I'll be pleased to be proved wrong. Right now the Kestrel is parked on the tarp with no where to go forward or backward so I can't try out the Eaton method at the moment.

The European expert on the Wilson Patent Pre-selector Gearbox is Peter "Banjo" Meyer. His web site is a fountain of information, including this description.

The foundation concrete guy should be here on Monday to do other landscaping work and I will be challenging him to come up with his own ideas on making the slab. So that should be the next subject of this thread. Meanwhile, let's keep this thread wandering wherever it may go!
 

simond

Western Thunderer
My new toy has “gear change assist”.

It has a standard manual clutch and pedal change, but you can simply apply pressure, up or down, on the gear pedal, and it changes. You don’t have to lift off or shut the throttle on upchanges, (100kW, 249kg, plus 95kg of SD, plus some clothes & a helmet, it’s really not hanging about) or blip it on downchanges, and it seems smart enough to delay downchanges to a point where the revs won’t be excessive.

my old Series1 Landy had crash on 1st & 2nd, it just dropped into 2nd going up, needed to double coming down. Oh, yes, that had a V8 in it...
 

Focalplane

Western Thunderer
My old Riley Monaco had a crash box and part of the fun of changing gear was to listen to the revs and change up gear without using the clutch at all. Of course if I wasn't listening properly it could make terrible noises! The teeth on those gears were huge, designed to last "forever".
 

Mike W

Western Thunderer
Slightly different but Laycock overdrives in the 1960s (e.g. Triumph) were pre-selector – great!

My 1938 4 1/2 litre Jensen has a pre-selector 2-speed epicyclic box attached to the differential. Vacuum powered from the inlet manifold with a pull knob on the dashboard and a change valve beneath the floor, operated by the clutch pedal. Its American and made by Columbia.

Pull the knob (the pre-selector bit) ... depress the clutch to move the valve, sending vacuum through one or other of two pipes going to the axle, to change gear. The interesting bit is that the speedo drive is taken from the prop shaft, so in high gear the speedo would read incorrectly. So, the knob also operates a tiny gearbox behind the speedometer. Pull the knob and the speedo drops. Press the clutch and the “overdrive” kicks in and the speedo increases so its correct again.

Mike
 
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