Hairy Bikers and Other Petrol Heads

[SimonT]

I had this problem with one of the MGBs I restored. If the MGA design is the same the drum is secured by two large counter sunk screws that take a whopping Philips drive. One required attention from the impact driver. One drum didn't want to come free and I just tapped around the rim with a hammer for a while or longer and it eventually walked off the shoes. As it took place when Miss T was newly arrived and she is now 32, please forgive me if I have got the details wrong. Obviously the presence of Miss T prevented buying new toys for the workshop for quite a while and hence a puller was never an option. Good luck!

 

[Boyblunder]

Recalling experience from 50 years ago when postmen drove their vans through fords and left them parked with the handbrake on for a month while they went on holiday don't hit the rim of the drum with a steel hammer or try pulling it off with a 3 leg puller. The cast drums chip easily and if you try to pull it off before freeing the sticking shoes then the shoes just bend and jam the drum on even harder. As Simon T suggests tapping repeatedly round the drum with a copper hammer helps, then put the wheel back on and get a couple of hefty chaps to push the car along, taking care not to bend the bodywork. If you are feeling very brave and have a nice flat concrete area you can jack up the back axle on a big trolley jack, get the car rolling then drop the jack. Happy days!

 

[simond]

I’d repeat what I said in post847, hitting the drums is likely to crack them. A soft mallet (nylon or copper) might be ok, as may a hot air gun.

I’m still of the opinion that turning the drum, rather than pulling it off, is the way to go. From memories as hazy as SimonT’s, the shoes are a near semicircle of steel, with a flat plate welded to the inside, and the lining on the outside. Obviously the outside is stuck to the inside of the drum. The shoes are retained to the backplate by a strong abutment to stop them rotating with the drum, and by some weak spring things to stop them falling off when you take the drum off. If the shoe rocks on the abutment, the back edge of the shoe will be forced into very tight contact with the drum as the effective radius is bigger when it’s on the angle. It’ll jam. To add to this, the drum may well have a wear lip. These factors are going to make pulling the drum off more difficult.

Dependent on access, could you try towing it a few yards? The tyres will suffer, but you’ll probably be replacing them anyway, and the stick-slip judder might just be enough to jar the drums and shoes free.

Once it’s turning, you should be able to remove the drum.

If that really won’t work, you might go back to Max’ idea of the slide hammer, but you’ll need the drum and hub to come off together, hence my comment about removing the hub nut - though if the half shaft is part of the hub that’ll have to come out too.

 

[SimonT]

From memories as hazy as SimonT’s,

It worked. I know 'cause I was there! Lots of little taps.

 

[King Crab]

Thanks for all the good advice!
I really do appreciate the input.
I will be collecting together a few more tools before the autumn season of sitting in the garage, scratching my head, comes
around again...

in the meantime here is a picture of my MGA at Le Mans, when I drove it there on a French holiday.
The MGA's were often well placed in the 24hour races.

Peter

 

[Eastsidepilot]

Who wants a bloody EV ....just give me a car with a soul

Col.

 

[simond]

Have you driven an ev?

They’re not boring…


I did have a play on a KTM E-freeride. That was fabulous!

 

[Max M]

Who wants a bloody EV ....just give me a car with a soul

Col.

Call that interesting , Col?

This IS interesting

But I take your point that an electric going up the strip may be fast but without the noise it isn't interesting

 

[Eastsidepilot]

Max,
Yes, if we are talking about full blown competition cars but I was thinking of more road user friendly

Col.

 

[Allen M]

Max,
Yes, if we are talking about full blown competition cars but I was thinking of more road user friendly

Col.

Col
Are they road user friendly? Being the top side of 80 with a full licence for over 60 years I still expect car to make a sound. A few days ago I was pushing my supermarket trolley across the car park listening as much a looking for something moving. I almost stepped into the path of an electric car. I think they should make a 'proper' car noise at low speed to aid safety, especially for the visually impaired.

Regards
Allen

 

[simond]

When we lived in India, musical reversing alarms were de rigeur.

A Tata Indica which lived down the road from us had “Set the Controls for the Heart of the Sun”, which I appreciated, even if it did seem a bit ambitious…

 

[Eastsidepilot]

On a serious note I'm hanging on to my Jeep for as long as possible, at the moment you couldn't ask me to use an EV version of what I have even if it was given to me. That's because I don't believe that the infrastructure is there to enable long journeys confidently enough for a start, if there is an electric version of the type of vehicle I need/want it will be far from my finances, there will not be second hand vehicles available yet.
I think basically I don't trust the whole EV market.
If and I say if I had the money there is a hybrid version of the Jeep Grand Cherokee being offered now and I'd be inclined to buy that but for the reasons above there is no second hand market.
I don't doubt that there are or will be 'affordable' EV's but it'll be some tiny tin box with two doors and a hatch that won't carry f**k 'all, will be uncomfortable and have no range on long journeys, wont stand up to the punishment of the roads where I live and would be impossible to use for towing etc. etc.
Petrol head jokes apart I don't want to move on to a vehicle that is less than what I have already so I'll keep pumping the diesel for as long as possible.

...it's not a rant just an explanation of where I'm coming from after my sister who has been driving hybrid and EV's for 2 or 3 years has asked when I'm getting one !

I wont go into vehicle fires although it has been known for the odd combustion engine driven thingy's to go up.

Col.

 

[Max M]

Are they road user friendly? Being the top side of 80 with a full licence for over 60 years I still expect car to make a sound. A few days ago I was pushing my supermarket trolley across the car park listening as much a looking for something moving. I almost stepped into the path of an electric car. I think they should make a 'proper' car noise at low speed to aid safety, especially for the visually impaired.

Many of the newer cars, particularly petrol, are near silent at low speed now and IMO there is minimal difference between IC and electric vehicles.
It's more a case for listening for tyre noise and not the engine.
That said I take your point and it is incumbent on both drivers and pedestrians to take care.
When driving I tend to assume that those of foot will walk in front of me when in car parks or even crossing roads, not necessarily because they haven't heard me, but that they just don't bother to look.
An other factor to consider, and without wishing to cause offence, is that as we get older our hearing does deteriorate. Not that I'm suggesting that is the case with you Allen.

Yes, if we are talking about full blown competition cars but I was thinking of more road user friendly
.

I guess it depends if you are driving for pleasure or getting from A to B?
I agree that when one takes the Aston or AC out for a spin the car is an integral part of the experience and where the noise and vibration can add to the enjoyment.

Like you my reservation is with the charging infrastructure and time required to charge. It is this which stops me from going full electric.
This has to change before they become a viable alternative to IC power.
I was not sold on electric power but my attitude has changed since getting a hybrid. Whilst the electric motor produces about 2/3 of the power of the IC engine it is more than adequate for my day to day use. The instant torque and near silent running make the car a pleasure to drive.
For me the hybrid gives me the best of both worlds, cheaper and more pleasurable running for my day to day driving but also the ability to go further afield without having to worry about being able to re-charge and the associated time this takes.
And when running with both electric and IC power it don't 'alf shift!

IMO electric vehicle do have character but it is a different to their IC cousins.

 

[oldravendale]

Col - I'm with you 110%. In fact we're currently looking for our last new smallish petrol only car for Mrs D - our last because we're unlikely to survive long enough to need another! However, although hybrids would potentially answer our needs I don't understand how using a petrol engine to drag around a set of heavy batteries makes any sense when a decent petrol engine will return better mpg. Plug in hybrids will of course charge the batteries and the petrol engine then becomes the back up but you're still hauling excessive unproductive weight around. It looks like our options will be limited to Skoda or VW.

The biggest issue for us, though, is that we still drive long distances and to get to see our children ))) involves long distances and, when we get there we'd be unable to charge the vehicle as one lives in a flat and the other in a terrace. I find the thought of stopping in a service station for half an hour to charge an EV in the middle of a journey anathema. The same applies when visiting friends in Cornwall and York. The infrastructure is not there and I'll stay with IC until it gets a lot better or I have absolutely no choice, and with the potential availability of used IC cars in the future being forced in to the EV strait jacket will be a long way away.

I believe that climate change has to be addressed but surely the investment should be in to hydrogen research, not the dead end which is batteries.

For myself, I'll keep my Jaguar XK.....

Brian

 

[simond]

Hybrids don't really have “heavy” batteries, obviously they weigh a bit more than “no batteries”, but the energy recovery makes sense. A hybrid should give better mpg nearly all the time, and some hybrids do offer the option of 100% electric use for short distances.

I'm in total agreement regarding the charging infrastructure, and indeed, the charging time. If it were possible to swap batteries, it might be a reasonable approach to the charging time issue, but there is no multi-manufacturer agreement about battery standards, and without that, it’s probably a non starter. I’ve heard of chemistries that might offer more rapid charging, but physics is physics, and you have to get the heat out somehow. Hydrogen gets round this issue, but brings lots of other concerns, mainly it leaks through joints. Fire is not a big issue, it’s so light it vanishes very quickly, but it’s expensive to make and needs lots of green electricity, if you don’t want to use oil.

In my view the largest elephant in the room is electricity generating capacity. The UK simply could not support a wholesale conversion to electric road vehicles, even if there were the charging stations and necessary grid infrastructure, which there aren’t, and it won’t be quick and easy to install. Those of us lucky enough to have a driveway can probably install a charger, but many, if not the majority of homes in the UK don’t have that option.

And the motorway services will only install chargers when they have to, and when they can charge 10-20p more than the going rate, as they do for petrol & diesel now.

My boss has an electric car. It’s very nice. He uses it religiously, unless he’s going more than about fifty miles, because of the issues with charger availability, reliability, and charging time.

I really do like EVs, but I don’t have one. I could replace the motorbike I go to work on with an electric motorbike, it would be great fun, but I’d be hamstrung if I wanted to go any distance at the weekend. The Discovery is used for long-haul holiday trips so that’s a non starter. And I guess that is the bottom line for most people. I can commute, but I can’t go on holiday, it’s cheap to run, but stupid expensive to buy. The sums don’t add up.

 

[cmax]

Interesting comments re EV's I do own an EV a VW ID.3 with the 77kw battery pack, it replaced a 2.0D VW Tiguan R

I'm lucky that I have a home charger and the journeys we make, we rarely need to use the public network, but when we have, haven't encountered any major problems, main gripe, they are a rip off! nearly all charging is performed overnight, and generally takes about 5-6 hours, not an issue when your asleep, range quoted by VW for the 77Kw battery is 330 miles and during the summer period getting a return of 275 miles is not a problem, when charged to its Max 100%, for everyday usage, its recommended to charge to a max of 80% and over a normal weeks use, work, shopping, social visits etc, 220 miles Is not a problem with the battery showing a level of charge showing between 20-30%, 60-100 miles range left, all dependent on A/C or heater usage.

I travel to Newcastle, Carlisle, & Birmingham regularly for work and family visits from Wakefield, W Yorks and if charged overnight, all easily done on the one charge.

Do I like the EV, Yes, we love it, would I go back to diesel, no way! I fully understand peoples reservations, and if you own a large Range Rover type of vehicle, there's not really an EV replacement, if you have a classic car, well you could always get it converted to electric! and on that note I'll retreat to the bunker!!

Gary

 

[Max M]

Col - I'm with you 110%. In fact we're currently looking for our last new smallish petrol only car for Mrs D - our last because we're unlikely to survive long enough to need another! However, although hybrids would potentially answer our needs I don't understand how using a petrol engine to drag around a set of heavy batteries makes any sense when a decent petrol engine will return better mpg. Plug in hybrids will of course charge the batteries and the petrol engine then becomes the back up but you're still hauling excessive unproductive weight around. It looks like our options will be limited to Skoda or VW.

The biggest issue for us, though, is that we still drive long distances and to get to see our children )) involves long distances and, when we get there we'd be unable to charge the vehicle as one lives in a flat and the other in a terrace. I find the thought of stopping in a service station for half an hour to charge an EV in the middle of a journey anathema. The same applies when visiting friends in Cornwall and York. The infrastructure is not there and I'll stay with IC until it gets a lot better or I have absolutely no choice, and with the potential availability of used IC cars in the future being forced in to the EV strait jacket will be a long way away.

I believe that climate change has to be addressed but surely the investment should be in to hydrogen research, not the dead end which is batteries.

For myself, I'll keep my Jaguar XK.....

Brian

Brian, I understand your comments regarding the battery and there is no denying that it does add weight. However, fuel also has mass and whilst this diminishes as it is consumed it will have an effect. We only carry enough fuel to keep the low warning light off and will only top up when we plan a longer journey which goes some way to mitigating the weight of the battery.

Regarding fuel consumption, our previous car (Merc A200) averaged 44.5 m.p.g. over the nearly four years we had it. The current Plug-in-hybrid (PHEV) (Merc A250e) is averaging 141m.p.g. i.e. total mileage / fuel added. So far 69.9% of our usage has been battery power.
Because of the fluctuating price of fuel and electricity it's difficult to give a precise figure on how much we have saved but I estimate this to be in the region of around £1K over the 18 months we have had it.

We do the occasional long trip when the majority of the distance is covered by the petrol engine. I try to save the battery for when we are in stop/ start situations. It has regenerative braking and whilst this does give some 'free' power in the grand scheme of things it doesn't add up to much.
If there is a penalty of the battery weight then on a long journey I can't say I've noticed much difference in fuel consumption from my previous car.
The biggest negative of the battery is the difference in range from summer to winter (44 miles in summer 29 miles when temperatures are at their lowest) something the manufacturers fail to mention!

I agree hydrogen will play a role but at the moment it costs too much to produce green hydrogen and in some respects it seems daft to use electricity to create it and the put it into a fuel cell to convert it back to electricity.
An alternative may be hydrogen IC engines such as those developed by JCB but they still produce pollutants so won't be a perfect solution.

My bottom line would is that if you do mainly local driving and have the ability to charge at home (better still if you have PV panels and a battery system and are on the Agile Octopus tariff) and do the occasional long distance drive then a PHEV makes good sense.

I don't regret buying ours.

 

[ICH60]

Was chatting to my local BMW garage manager and he was say that 90% of EV sales are to companies or businesses, due to the tax benefits The other 10% were sold to private buyers. Of the 10% half had return them and bought a ICE vehicle. Mainly due to lack of charging facilities. He was recommending me to buy a petrol version due to extra cost of a EV or hybrid out weighed the told running costs of petrol. you would have to cover around 70000miles to start making it worth while. He then went on to tell me that I couldn't order a new petrol version until start of 2024!
Go and look at a Tesla charging station and look at the Power cabinet and DC converters then you have the actual charging position. they take up lots of space. Where are they going to go in the city streets.
If you take a standard garage petrol station say my local Tescos they have 10 pumps. most have cars there for for 5 mins so if you say you have half full at any one time so thats approximately 300 cars per hour. Now say it takes an average 1hour to charge your car that would require 300 charging spaces. That is a lot of space.
Interestingly the chargers you find in Supermarket car parks most are not working. That is because the supermarket becomes liable for the maintenance after the first year, and they seemly not keen on spending money on them.

 

[simond]

Apropos my earlier comment about generating capacity. The UK can generate 76.7GW, that is 672 TWh if it ran continuously at full capacity over a year. Of this, some 310 TWh was used in 2018 as “electricity”, for domestic, industry, transport, etc. Some of the remainder was exported, the rest was presumably unused capacity, maintenance time, mothballed, etc.

in 2018, the road transport system consumed just over 36 MTOE (million tonnes oil equivalent), 1 MTOE is 11.6 TWh, thus 418 TWh

total annual demand is 310 plus 418 = 728TWh

total annual supply capability is 672 TWh.

The analysis is simplistic and a few years out of date, but the principles are, I think, sound. Mr Micawber might suggest building a power station or two…

I suspect we’ll be importing diesel for a few years to come.

 

[oldravendale]

I (and possibly Col!) can only thank you for such full and detailed responses. We seem to have covered the gamut of responses with just three posts. May I thank you all for such a rational and reasoned discussion with not a single vindictive comment - not that I'd expect anything else on WT, of course.

If my wife's car was purely for local travel there'd be no possible argument against an EV. A few of my neighbours here have them and speak highly of them. However I can only fit two, including me, in the XK so if we are intending to take people out when we are away Mrs D's is the only option. As examples the people we visit regularly in Yorkshire and Cornwall, although both have drives I'd be asking for them to move their cars out of their own drives probably overnight and neither have external charging points so to ask for extensions to be run would be an inconvenience at the least, and then I'd be asking them to pay for filling the car!

A friend has a Tesla which, in fairness, he loves. However he coincidentally recently went to Cornwall and waited 3 hours for the Tesla queue so he could recharge on the motorway. Sorry to say that's just not feasible.

Due to being an idiot in the really cold snap last winter I had to call the RAC out to restart one of our cars (guess which one - clue - it wasn't Mrs D's) because of a battery failure. I asked him what had taken so long - in fact over night - for him to arrive. He'd been involved in sorting out EVs which had stalled because they'd run out of juice. In his view to buy a pure EV at the moment is just too early.

Finally, just to clarify an earlier comment, I was suggesting not that we should all be using hydrogen but that's where the investment in research should be going. Simple small petrol engines give amazing (from my perspective as a baby boomer) mileage. I'm not ignoring the advice about the weight of fuel I carry around, nor the relatively small weight of batteries in a hybrid. I'm also attracted by the high mpg from a hybrid which has been discussed with a neighbour. All this gives me pause for thought. We'll go out tomorrow to look for a new car but I'm possibly not quite so biased against hybrids.

Brian