mickoo
Western Thunderer
Let me double check the boilers when I get back home as I've a niggle some domes might have been changed and there might be differences in the firebox wash out positions. Some fire boxes also had the safety valves further forward, again something I only have partial research on some members on at the moment.
Mick D
Mick D
mickoo
Western Thunderer
After a week back home packing Gladiator boxes (I hadn't realised just how long this takes) it is back to Bangkok and the workbench.
The trip home enabled me to pick up some soft half round wire from a jewellery supply store. I used this for the beading and coal rails. Apologies now to the purists: I decided that half-round would be good enough and couldn't face the task of trying to get it consistently oval shaped.
With some trepidation, I cut off the coal rails from the beading/flare/coal rail etch, and used this as a template to make the new coal rails. The etch was fixed to the glass worktop, lengths of brass strip representing the vertical supports taped over it in the correct places, followed by the backing plates. The vertical supports were left deliberately long. The half round wire was then straightened by fixing a vice to the work room door (I guess the landlord doesn't follow this thread) to clamp one end of the wire, which was then given a good tug. The straightened wire was then soldered with 60:40 solder to the supports and backing plates (and itself at the front). The sellotape was then removed to give a completed set of coal rails.
Then it was on to the beading. I decided that trying to do this in one piece was beyond me, so I first made the front verticals with the bends leading to the top of the sides.
I then filed back the flat beading until it was nearly flush with the main panels. The front beading sections were then added.
This was followed by the horizontal beading, which was added as a single length.
Then the coal rails were attached, first trying the fit and cutting the verticals to length, starting at the front on one side and working back, forming the curves and eventually fixing at the front on the other side. When I saw the following picture, I gout out my measuring stick and checked the location of the LH side backing plate as it seems to be at an angle. Fortunately it appears to be an illusion in the photo.
I think that the exercise has been worth it as the half round sections look much better than the flat etch.
The trip home enabled me to pick up some soft half round wire from a jewellery supply store. I used this for the beading and coal rails. Apologies now to the purists: I decided that half-round would be good enough and couldn't face the task of trying to get it consistently oval shaped.
With some trepidation, I cut off the coal rails from the beading/flare/coal rail etch, and used this as a template to make the new coal rails. The etch was fixed to the glass worktop, lengths of brass strip representing the vertical supports taped over it in the correct places, followed by the backing plates. The vertical supports were left deliberately long. The half round wire was then straightened by fixing a vice to the work room door (I guess the landlord doesn't follow this thread) to clamp one end of the wire, which was then given a good tug. The straightened wire was then soldered with 60:40 solder to the supports and backing plates (and itself at the front). The sellotape was then removed to give a completed set of coal rails.
Then it was on to the beading. I decided that trying to do this in one piece was beyond me, so I first made the front verticals with the bends leading to the top of the sides.
I then filed back the flat beading until it was nearly flush with the main panels. The front beading sections were then added.
This was followed by the horizontal beading, which was added as a single length.
Then the coal rails were attached, first trying the fit and cutting the verticals to length, starting at the front on one side and working back, forming the curves and eventually fixing at the front on the other side. When I saw the following picture, I gout out my measuring stick and checked the location of the LH side backing plate as it seems to be at an angle. Fortunately it appears to be an illusion in the photo.
I think that the exercise has been worth it as the half round sections look much better than the flat etch.
Dikitriki
Flying Squad
I know from the Duchess tender just how fiddly tender beading is, particularly round the front end curves. And you can't afford to get it anything but straight either. There's no substitute for using proper rounded beading and your model will be all the better for it, stronger as well. If you want to make it more oval, you can always sand it back a bit further.
Richard
Richard
Len Cattley
Western Thunderer
I like your tender build Richard, I've got 2 in 4mm to do, parts are so small I need to wear a magnifing head band to see them
Len
Len
adrian
Flying Squad
That's really nicely done - I find it interesting to see the different solutions people come up with. I think I would struggle with your method and would prefer to do it one piece. With the half round beading when bending before fitting I find it difficult to keep it flat, it always seems to bend in 3 dimensions!
My technique for beading tenders is to straighten the wire as you have done but then anneal the wire by heating to a cherry red and leaving it cool. I then start at one end and solder it to the tender side plate, usually starting at the vertical edge by the front footplate. As I work along the length of the beading I bend it into position on the job, a couple of small diameter steel rods help roll it into position round the corners as I go, I use old needle file handles and fingers. Once I'm happy with each bit I solder it in place.
mickoo
Western Thunderer
That looks so much better if you don't mind me saying 
It'll look even more so once you have paint on it and the light catches the half round sections, the joint between the two tender side sections looks barely visible.
As others have already noted, to make D section just draw file along the crown, doesn't have to be much or uber accurate, just enough of a flat to make a difference. It's much easier done in the flat and as your tender is already formed it'll be a trite difficult now, but for the future, maybe something to consider.
If you have some half round strip left over then to complete the tender add a bit inside at the front to give the full round effect each side of the tender sheet.
If it's not too much to ask, where did you get the half round from, it looks like it bends really well without the distortion so often common with other materials that Adrian mentions, of course if you want to keep it a secret, that's fine too
Mick D
It'll look even more so once you have paint on it and the light catches the half round sections, the joint between the two tender side sections looks barely visible.
As others have already noted, to make D section just draw file along the crown, doesn't have to be much or uber accurate, just enough of a flat to make a difference. It's much easier done in the flat and as your tender is already formed it'll be a trite difficult now, but for the future, maybe something to consider.
If you have some half round strip left over then to complete the tender add a bit inside at the front to give the full round effect each side of the tender sheet.
If it's not too much to ask, where did you get the half round from, it looks like it bends really well without the distortion so often common with other materials that Adrian mentions, of course if you want to keep it a secret, that's fine too
Mick D
The half round came from a company called metalclays4you off eBay. Search for jewellers half round wire. At £6.60 for 10m of soft wire I thought it good value: more so if you buy 3 items as you then get £1 discount with free P&P or collect from Argos. They do half hard as well and different sections including small square lengths. Some really useful stuff.
It is quite soft and forms easily: there was some distortion doing the sharp bend, but then that flattened in the pliers.
When I built the Finney A4 I did as Adrian suggested and beaded in one hit per side. If I had thought about it, I could have done this tender in one hit by starting in the middle of the wire at the back and working forward. One reason for splitting the beading was a concern that with my usual ham fisted-ness I would have kinked one of the long straights while working on the front section. Being a bear of little brain, I hadn't twigged that fitting the three long sections first would overcome that problem.........Well I have a DJH version to do later this year so I'll try that out then.
I'll add the beading inside the tender as well: thanks for pointing it out.
Thanks.
David
It is quite soft and forms easily: there was some distortion doing the sharp bend, but then that flattened in the pliers.
When I built the Finney A4 I did as Adrian suggested and beaded in one hit per side. If I had thought about it, I could have done this tender in one hit by starting in the middle of the wire at the back and working forward. One reason for splitting the beading was a concern that with my usual ham fisted-ness I would have kinked one of the long straights while working on the front section. Being a bear of little brain, I hadn't twigged that fitting the three long sections first would overcome that problem.........Well I have a DJH version to do later this year so I'll try that out then.
I'll add the beading inside the tender as well: thanks for pointing it out.
Thanks.
David
Peter Cross
Western Thunderer
Looks good. Already to be joined by the loco. Is the tender as big as it looks. I am doing a Urie 5000 gallon one at the moment and that is bigger than some small locos I have built.
warren haywood
Western Thunderer
Looking good David
Dibatag is now black
Piccys soon
Dibatag is now black
Piccys soon
It's huge!
I have made a start on the loco frames. Following Mickoo's helpful advice I have left the frames without any lightening holes bar the one that is already in the frames forward of the cylinders. It's a bit of guess work as to what rivets needed embossing, but I took the view that by 1958 most of the flush rivets would have been replaced by snap head and embossed the lot. I tested the bearing positions using the Premier Components rods and then fixed the leading and trailing positions. The centre will float and has been filed out accordingly. The springs were laminated and attached to the frames and the sandbox folded up and soldered.
I enjoy chassis building and am looking forward to the next steps.
I enjoy chassis building and am looking forward to the next steps.
Frame construction has continued.
A quick question for anyone who has built one of these before: there is a 6BA nut to be fitted under the rear spacer, but the instructions are not precise enough to determine where. The instructions say to fold down the tab for the coupling and to fit a 6BA nut on the underside of the hole. Now I was just about to solder the nut on the underside of folded down tab when it struck me that it probably needs to go on the underside of the hole in the spacer. Which is correct?
I need to fit wires for the brake hangers. These should be 0.9mm, but I have run out of wire! I cannot believe it. Not to worry as I have miles of the stuff at home and am on the flight tomorrow to be at the Leigh show.
A quick question for anyone who has built one of these before: there is a 6BA nut to be fitted under the rear spacer, but the instructions are not precise enough to determine where. The instructions say to fold down the tab for the coupling and to fit a 6BA nut on the underside of the hole. Now I was just about to solder the nut on the underside of folded down tab when it struck me that it probably needs to go on the underside of the hole in the spacer. Which is correct?
I need to fit wires for the brake hangers. These should be 0.9mm, but I have run out of wire! I cannot believe it. Not to worry as I have miles of the stuff at home and am on the flight tomorrow to be at the Leigh show.
mickoo
Western Thunderer
I think your supposed to solder the nut onto the fold down tab before you bend it, it's easier that way, thus you are technically soldering it to the underside, so that when you bend it it becomes the upper side with the nut already attached.
I completely rebuilt this area with the additional internal frame extensions, so I don't have that tab and spacer any more.
One thing I forgot to mention before was the conjuncted lever openings in the frame at the front, the kit boilds up so that the lower edge of the opening is on the frames and the upper edge is on the underside of the footplate/ body assembly, I added a thin 10 thou overlay onto the frames that covers this whole area up and removes the ugly joint between the two parts. It also allows you to then make the openings the right size, that on the firemans side being half the depth of the opening on the drivers side, rather than both being the same size on the existing etchings.
I'll post a couple of pictures up later, or find the relevant page in my build which explains it all a bit better.
Mick D
I completely rebuilt this area with the additional internal frame extensions, so I don't have that tab and spacer any more.
One thing I forgot to mention before was the conjuncted lever openings in the frame at the front, the kit boilds up so that the lower edge of the opening is on the frames and the upper edge is on the underside of the footplate/ body assembly, I added a thin 10 thou overlay onto the frames that covers this whole area up and removes the ugly joint between the two parts. It also allows you to then make the openings the right size, that on the firemans side being half the depth of the opening on the drivers side, rather than both being the same size on the existing etchings.
I'll post a couple of pictures up later, or find the relevant page in my build which explains it all a bit better.
Mick D
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OK so it's one vote on WT for the tab, while on the other channel the vote is for the spacer...................
I am going to delay this as long as possible until I am sure of the coupling arrangements, at which point I hope all will become clearer!
I have plans to re-write/ modernise the Gladiator instructions and I can see that getting it right is not going to be easy!