Elmham Market in EM

[Mick LNER]

Re the G5 chassis .
I have just finshed my second G5 in OO , one the Alexander kit and the other a ancient Geo Norton both have been fitted with "rigid" Alexander G5 ( the Norton came with a wrecked/unrepairable original chassis ) and both now run very well.

This is the first time I have seen the 52F version . As Daddyman has stated, I cannot understand the thinking behind the two part chassis. Both of mine go around 3ft curves without issue with the "normal" Bogie doing all the work. Has 52F given any reasons for the design please ?. I have looked at his webpage and the design layout is not mentioned in his description, other than claiming it will go around 2ft 6ins curves.

I have built his J21 chassis in OO, and found it a real pain to build as it was too long , and simply didnt fit the Nucast body without modifying the J21 body and shortening the chassis contrary to his claims on his site. It also came with the wrong gears supplied for the Gearbox. The instructions were poor on how to build the chassis as well.

I dont think I will be using his kits again, I have now had other issues , with his supply of incorrect items recently.

 

[Herb Garden]

Re the G5 chassis .
I have just finshed my second G5 in OO , one the Alexander kit and the other a ancient Geo Norton both have been fitted with "rigid" Alexander G5 ( the Norton came with a wrecked/unrepairable original chassis ) and both now run very well.

This is the first time I have seen the 52F version . As Daddyman has stated, I cannot understand the thinking behind the two part chassis. Both of mine go around 3ft curves without issue with the "normal" Bogie doing all the work. Has 52F given any reasons for the design please ?. I have looked at his webpage and the design layout is not mentioned in his description, other than claiming it will go around 2ft 6ins curves.

I have built his J21 chassis in OO, and found it a real pain to build as it was too long , and simply didnt fit the Nucast body without modifying the J21 body and shortening the chassis contrary to his claims on his site. It also came with the wrong gears supplied for the Gearbox. The instructions were poor on how to build the chassis as well.

I dont think I will be using his kits again, I have now had other issues , with his supply of incorrect items recently.

Mick,

Having seen the prototype of the kit in the flesh I think I can enlighten on the flexible chassis. The idea is to get the rear frames as close to the bogie as possible to get rid of the unsightly air gap and hide the flexible join behind the steps. Its a very different way of doing things to conventional practice but ingenuity should be celebrated I think. But a product like this wont be for everyone and if a conventional product is sought lovers of the G5 are blessed with the London road offering. Afterall without inventive experimentation we would still be working with while metal block chassis rather than the etched brass we take for granted.

Personally I've used 52F before and never had a problem with design or supply but I appreciate personal experiences differ.

I'm looking forward to seeing now Nigel's G5 build comes together

Once again I apologise if I have taken us off topic ... We really should be focusing on elham market

Herbie

 

[Daddyman]

Re the G5 chassis .
I have just finshed my second G5 in OO , one the Alexander kit and the other a ancient Geo Norton both have been fitted with "rigid" Alexander G5 ( the Norton came with a wrecked/unrepairable original chassis ) and both now run very well.

This is the first time I have seen the 52F version . As Daddyman has stated, I cannot understand the thinking behind the two part chassis. Both of mine go around 3ft curves without issue with the "normal" Bogie doing all the work. Has 52F given any reasons for the design please ?. I have looked at his webpage and the design layout is not mentioned in his description, other than claiming it will go around 2ft 6ins curves.

I have built his J21 chassis in OO, and found it a real pain to build as it was too long , and simply didnt fit the Nucast body without modifying the J21 body and shortening the chassis contrary to his claims on his site. It also came with the wrong gears supplied for the Gearbox. The instructions were poor on how to build the chassis as well.

I dont think I will be using his kits again, I have now had other issues , with his supply of incorrect items recently.

Yes, the idea is that there is no daylight above the bogie wheels - a laudable goal. However, all the "eazibild" features on these kits simply produce knock-on problems, and I always end up scratchbuilding to build out these features. I've already mentioned the silly cheesehead screws visible on chassis and bogie sides (why punch out the rivets, or etch accurate brake gear, and supply the correct wheels, if a couple of millimetres away, there's a screwhead a scale 9" across?); I've also mentioned the unnecessary support frame inside the tanks of the NB Atlantics, which cause their own problems. Then there's the boiler, etched with grooves in it in which the boiler band strips are inserted; this supposedly means the bands stand proud of the boiler by the correct amount, but just results in gaps either side of the bands as the groove in the boiler is too wide. The compensation system is also ill-advised, using an internal chassis bolted (see above) inside the cosmetic frames, which doesn't allow the wheels to yaw, only to go up and down. I don't think any of these departures from conventional practice qualify as "ingenious".

Of more immediate use to use to the builder, though: when you pick up the loco, I think you're going to find that the rear frames will dangle in mid air. I got round this on the C15 by rigging up a clip behind the buffer beam; this holds the front frames (rear, in your case) close to the footplate bottom, while not interfering with the swing of the frames; when you fit the chassis to the body, it would need to go in rear-end-first.

Thinking more about the rear frames, yes, you could possibly rig up a spring as I said before, but the easiest thing might be to lock out rotation in 2 of the 3 places where the kit allows it. I'd be inclined to try locking rotation at the bogie pivot, and at the rear end of the front-to-rear-frames attachment strip, and leave it only at the front of that strip. That way, the frames will swing on curves, rather than the bogie turning, and you won't get the bogie moving at odds to the frames; again, though, how are the frames going to centre themselves once they come off a curve? LRM do a LNWR 4-6-0 or 4-4-0 which uses a similar swinging-frames system, and it might be worth checking (someone on here may know) if they allow any rotation/movement in the bogie at all, and how they get the front frames to return to centre. I'm pretty sure they won't allow three points of rotation as 52F does. But is the swinging-frame system inherently flawed? Someone on the S4 forum described it as like trying to open the curtains while sitting in an armchair... Worth persevering with, though, to lose that daylight...

 

[James Spooner]

I’ve been doing a bit of flitting modelling wise over the last few weeks, when I have been modelling. I must admit it has been a bit sporadic during March with one weekend given over to a Mutual Improvement Class on the Ffestiniog, another taken up with helping out on the EM stand at Ally Pally and so on. I also lost a bit of modelling mojo for a bit so have been doing some simple bits and bobs.

As I mentioned in an earlier post I converted a Hornby J15 to EM at Ally Pally. Since then I have added balance weights and painted the chassis. Over last weekend I used a bit of left over dirty black and wafted some over the loco with my airbrush (not too much as 65469 was Mr Harvey’s ‘pet’ at Norwich and was generally well looked after). Photo below.



I have also been tackling some of the 3D printed GER bogies I bought recently. I made four up and over last weekend removed some troublesome etched brass bogies from a pair of D&S carriages I made many years ago. This first pair I made up using the compensation method suggested in the instructions but it lead to over frequent shorts and derailments so I have now replaced them with the printed ones. Again, photo below.



Finally, I have returned to the G5 that seems to have caused a bit of a stir a few weeks ago. I have decided to build it according to the instructions and see how it comes out. The footplate now has valances and some elements are beginning to grow on top. So far the tab design of locating the formed pieces seems to be working OK. A couple of photos below.



That’s about it for now but I plan on cracking on with the G5 body over the coming days. Whilst writing, a minor appeal, if I may. I am planning on making this up as 67322, one of three G5’s which spent most of the 1950’s based at Cambridge and worked the Saffron Walden branch. They were push pull fitted with the GER air operated control system, which I think Hill copied from Billinton’s LB&SCR system. I am struggling to find any decent photos of the plumbing which sat around the Westinghouse pump to cater for the push pull equipment so if anyone knows of any, please do let me know.

Cheers

Nigel

 

[James Spooner]

A short update this evening. I have been working through some of the cab sub-assemblies which, whilst small and detailed are generally tabbed so they locate together pretty well. The one exception (I think!) was a
mis-numbering of the two inside plinths within the cab sides. Given the tabs I think they have been numbered the wrong way around. No doubt I’ll find out whether I am right or not later on in the build! Photo below shows latest progress.

Nigel

 

[James Spooner]

A bit more progress this evening, mostly soldering sub assemblies together all of which seemed to go together well. I came a bit unstuck as the cab side etch is very flimsy, even though I had left in the strengthener near the footplate end of the cab entrance and, inevitably (for me anyway), it got bent. More time spent straightening it out satisfactorily than soldering but now acceptable again. I think I’ll stop for this evening as I don’t want to push my luck! A couple of photos below.

Nigel

 

[James Spooner]

No modelling done over the Easter weekend as Mrs B and I were over in Norwich seeing children and grandchildren but back at my workbench this evening. I have to say, the body, despite being very detailed, is going together very well so far and is much quicker to build than some other kits I have put together. A couple of photos below, taken at different stages of the evening.

Nigel

 

[Mick LNER]

Have you found any photos of the Push Pull plumbing you were after?. My Geo Norton model has the NER version fitted, no idea if the GER used a different system as not my area of interest.

I have not seen any G5's fitted with Boiler inset washout plugs for you info.

 

[James Spooner]

Have you found any photos of the Push Pull plumbing you were after?. My Geo Norton model has the NER version fitted, no idea if the GER used a different system as not my area of interest.

I have not seen any G5's fitted with Boiler inset washout plugs for you info.

I think I have tracked down a side on image of 67322 in the 12 October 1998 issue of Steam Railway (if, perchance, anyone has that lying around and to hand?!) - I just need to get my hands on it! I know the GER push pull system was air operated and Hill borrowed plans from Billinton on the LB&SC, but I don’t know what the NER used; was it vacuum or air? The boiler isn’t finished yet and there are some etchings to represent washout plugs; I guess I’ll need to research what 67322 had (that photo I referred to earlier could be handy there too!). From the 1950’s photos it looks as though it had retained the earlier NER style of boiler, rather than 9ne of the later LNER ones.

Nigel

 

[Roger Pound]

Welcome Nigel - I've just caught up with your thread and may I say what impressive modelling! The 'Royal' Claude reminded me of holidays at Hunstanton in a caravan next to the railway. 62614 appeared on passenger trains many times as the D15's and D16's dominated the scene. B17's were occasional visitors. I hope these pictures, (some of my original efforts taken with a box-Brownie ), may be of interest:
D15 62507 entering Hunstanton station:


B17 61627 'Aske Hall' in the yard at Hunstanton. It had worked in with a through train from London and has now been turned and will work the return service later.


Look forward to enjoying more of your work,

Roger .

 

[James Spooner]

Welcome Nigel - I've just caught up with your thread and may I say what impressive modelling! The 'Royal' Claude reminded me of and holidays at Hunstanton in a caravan next to the railway. 62614 appeared on passenger trains many times as the D15's and D16's dominated the scene. B17's were occasional visitors. I hope these pictures, (some of my original efforts taken with a box-Brownie ), may be of interest:
D15 62507 entering Hunstanton station:
View attachment 184610

B17 61627 'Aske Hall' in the yard at Hunstanton. It had worked in with a through train from London and has now been turned and will work the return service later.
View attachment 184612

Look forward to enjoying more of your work,

Roger .

Thanks Roger, compared to many on WT I am just a bodger, but appreciate your compliment! I do like your photos, even with a box Brownie, you have shown it is perfectly possible to capture good and atmospheric images.

cheers

Nigel

 

[Mick LNER]

Some search results
The Hobbs link says Air operated system

https://jstubley.files.wordpress.com/2022/10/67322-64688-cambridge-shed-1950s.jpg?w=2048

Think this is a good as it gets!!
No ex NER type apparatus on Smokebox just the Buffer Beam connections. Westinghouse piping is as per LNER ex NER days.
from

Disused Stations: Bartlow Station (Saffron Walden branch platform)

J94 and other LNER Tanks Page

Hobbs Warren is the 0 gauge 7mm exhibition layout of Terry Cooke and Bernard Watson

www.hobbs-warren.co.uk

 

[James Spooner]

Some search results
The Hobbs link says Air operated system

https://jstubley.files.wordpress.com/2022/10/67322-64688-cambridge-shed-1950s.jpg?w=2048

View attachment 184617

View attachment 184618
Think this is a good as it gets!!
No ex NER type apparatus on Smokebox just the Buffer Beam connections. Westinghouse piping is as per LNER ex NER days.
from

Disused Stations: Bartlow Station (Saffron Walden branch platform)

J94 and other LNER Tanks Page

Hobbs Warren is the 0 gauge 7mm exhibition layout of Terry Cooke and Bernard Watson

www.hobbs-warren.co.uk

Thanks Mick, I have managed to get a digital download of SR and the photo is, as I thought, 67322. It does show the Westinghouse air pump and associated plumbing quite clearly, so will attempt to reproduce that in 4mm scale. I have seen diagrams of the Brighton air system and there do seem to be air cylinders involved in it but nothing showing in any photos so I can only assume they were tucked away beneath the frames?

cheers

Nigel

 

[Mick LNER]

Yes standard LNER layout. The best Westinghouse Pump I have been able to find is the Gibson version. I dont think anyone amkes the Bufferbeam connections. Dave Alexander did a whitemetal version, now sadly long gone.

 

[James Spooner]

Yes standard LNER layout. The best Westinghouse Pump I have been able to find is the Gibson version. I dont think anyone amkes the Bufferbeam connections. Dave Alexander did a whitemetal version, now sadly long gone.

Yes, I guess it is the standard layout but it must have extra pipe work somewhere to feed the air driven push pull system. Still trying to figure that bit out! The Gibson pumps are good, but I am also eyeing up the Markits one in turned brass.

 

[James Spooner]

A bit more progress this evening, detailing the boiler with bands, whistle, safety valves, washout plugs and dome. I have also started forming the front splasher assembly but that still needs a bit of fettling before assembly. Photo of the boiler work below.

Nigel

 

[James Spooner]

A bit more progress over the last couple of days with the smokebox and splasher assembly formed and soldered up and then that and the boiler/cab front all soldered together and onto the rest of the loco. I’m currently adding lead to any leading part of the loco that has space and will then solder the tank tops down. Current state of play shown in the photo below.

Nigel

 

[Scale7JB]

I thought that number looked familiar..



JB.

 

[James Spooner]

I thought that number looked familiar..

View attachment 184977

JB.

Lovely! I like the push pull set too. My next task, when the G5 is finished, is to build a D&S push pull set in EM, that the kind Mr Pinnock sold me…

 

[Scale7JB]

‘Tis indeed the Mr Pinnock push pull set behind the G5. From recollection the instructions aren’t great, but the bits themselves are all pretty good.

JB.