Elmham Market in EM

James Spooner

Western Thunderer
Sorry to be a pain Nigel but your close up shows that you have lost the hanger on the LH spring. Otherwise the detail looks first class.

Ian.
Well spotted! I noticed that myself later and muttered imprecations. I’m not sure where it went; if I can’t find it I will have to fettle another out of wire and some plasticard discs. I have another dozen bogies on order to go under some of my earlier D&S carriages which now seem to have developed intermittent shorts, so will check them when they arrive.

cheers

Nigel
 

James Spooner

Western Thunderer
I’ve been a bit quiet again for a couple of reasons. Firstly I have spent a few days in Wales in meetings involving another passion of mine: the Ffestiniog and Welsh Highland Railways (and on the way up to Wales I picked up, from Ian Rathbone, a Roundhouse England engine that he has transformed for me). Secondly I’m still wrestling with painting the goods yard…

So, as a bit of a break from the goods yard I have broken open the G5 kit (a 52F kits production) that my dearly beloved bought me for Christmas and started working on the chassis. I have to say, it is extremely well designed and thought through. It is quite complex but the components fit together very well and the instructions with illustrations are a dream. I’ve still got quite a way to go but the sub components are recognisable so I bolted them together to get a view of how it might look.

I attach a photo of Palmerston and a couple of photos of the G5 chassis under construction.

Nigel

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James Spooner

Western Thunderer
Well I finally managed to get the G5 chassis booted this evening. I do like the concept behind the design, based on flexichas principles but with some cunning twists. As a bodger I did find some elements a bit tricky to put together, especially the keeper plates under the driving axles, but it all seems to roll smoothly now. I think I’ll turn to the footplate assembly next and make sure it and the chassis all marry up properly before adding the motor, brake assembly etc. A couple of photos attached showing the current state of play.

Nigel

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Daddyman

Western Thunderer
based on flexichas principles but with some cunning twists
... such as visible bolt heads on the frames - and I see he's now added some to the bogie sides too, all totally unnecessary if the pivot ran through a tube between the frames. Sorry, but these kits make me very grumpy, and I can't understand why they're so well regarded. This is not to take anything away from your work, which is very neat.

I haven't built the G5 (he couldn't supply photos of the built kit so I didn't buy one), but I learnt some lessons the hard way on his C15 and C16. I agree that his chassis go together well (albeit with silly screw heads), but the problem is that lulled me into a false sense of security for the body, which on both the C15 and C16 was a nightmare - like building a test etch. What I'd recommend is that you check all parts first with a vernier, and lay similar parts on top of each other to check for symmetry (left-hand and right-hand cab/tank sides, and cab front and rear). The cabside aperture was a different width on each side on the C16, something I only found out once I had the the loco nearly finished and was putting the seat boxes in the cab - why was one closer to the aperture than the other? On both kits there was also a silly webbing system to go inside the tanks, which apart from being a solution in search of a problem (tanks on kits have been holding themselves up for decades without the need for such supports) was too high for the outer tank skin, and lifted the tanks up off the footplate. And don't get me started on the castings! I note he's only doing the late s.box door for the G5 so you might want to check your prototype. I may be able to help if you need the earlier flatter one...

I'm also not sure how that arrangement on the bogie and rear frames is going to work, especially when running bunker first - how will the bogie know whether it's its turn to turn, or the frames' turn to turn? And how's the rear frame going to know when to stand down and return to first positions? I suspect that what's going to happen is that it will scoot along straight track at an angle as there is no spring to return it to centre - this was certainly the case with the C15. It's going to be very difficult to get the bolts on the link between main frames and rear frames tight enough and not too tight, as it looks like, as on the NBR Atlantic tanks, the bolts are not partially but fully threaded and running through bolts on both components. If your curves allow it, I'd find some way of locking the rear-frame swivel function out of action - after all, the LRM kit never needed this feature. Or maybe locking it at one end only, so that it does actually swivel and not do a "parallelogram swivel", for want of a better term. But try it first - I may be wrong; I certainly hope it works as you've built it. It might also be possible to rig up some sort of spring attached to the main frames and running through a handrail knob inside the rear frames, so that the latter are under some resistance, and don't start to swivel until the bogie has reached the end of its tether, and also return to centre when back on straight track.
 

James Spooner

Western Thunderer
... such as visible bolt heads on the frames - and I see he's now added some to the bogie sides too, all totally unnecessary if the pivot ran through a tube between the frames. Sorry, but these kits make me very grumpy, and I can't understand why they're so well regarded. This is not to take anything away from your work, which is very neat.

I haven't built the G5 (he couldn't supply photos of the built kit so I didn't buy one), but I learnt some lessons the hard way on his C15 and C16. I agree that his chassis go together well (albeit with silly screw heads), but the problem is that lulled me into a false sense of security for the body, which on both the C15 and C16 was a nightmare - like building a test etch. What I'd recommend is that you check all parts first with a vernier, and lay similar parts on top of each other to check for symmetry (left-hand and right-hand cab/tank sides, and cab front and rear). The cabside aperture was a different width on each side on the C16, something I only found out once I had the the loco nearly finished and was putting the seat boxes in the cab - why was one closer to the aperture than the other? On both kits there was also a silly webbing system to go inside the tanks, which apart from being a solution in search of a problem (tanks on kits have been holding themselves up for decades without the need for such supports) was too high for the outer tank skin, and lifted the tanks up off the footplate. And don't get me started on the castings! I note he's only doing the late s.box door for the G5 so you might want to check your prototype. I may be able to help if you need the earlier flatter one...

I'm also not sure how that arrangement on the bogie and rear frames is going to work, especially when running bunker first - how will the bogie know whether it's its turn to turn, or the frames' turn to turn? And how's the rear frame going to know when to stand down and return to first positions? I suspect that what's going to happen is that it will scoot along straight track at an angle as there is no spring to return it to centre - this was certainly the case with the C15. It's going to be very difficult to get the bolts on the link between main frames and rear frames tight enough and not too tight, as it looks like, as on the NBR Atlantic tanks, the bolts are not partially but fully threaded and running through bolts on both components. If your curves allow it, I'd find some way of locking the rear-frame swivel function out of action - after all, the LRM kit never needed this feature. Or maybe locking it at one end only, so that it does actually swivel and not do a "parallelogram swivel", for want of a better term. But try it first - I may be wrong; I certainly hope it works as you've built it. It might also be possible to rig up some sort of spring attached to the main frames and running through a handrail knob inside the rear frames, so that the latter are under some resistance, and don't start to swivel until the bogie has reached the end of its tether, and also return to centre when back on straight track.
Thanks for your comments; I will certainly go ahead with the body with my eyes open and will propel the chassis around the layout to see whether it runs straight or crabs. I will post progress as I make it. Nothing much happening this weekend as I’m off to the Ffestiniog for a mutual improvement class…

Nigel
 

James Spooner

Western Thunderer
Only tangentially linked to Elmham Market but I was roped in to steward for the EMGS stand at Ally Pally today. Great engagement from visitors and an enthusiastic EMGS team lead by Stuart Firth with Nick Ridgeway providing experienced support and me helping out.

I wasn’t sure what to try my hand at but felt an activity that demystified providing steam outline motive power in EM might help waverers. Accordingly I took along a Hornby J15 still in its box and an Alan Gibson conversion kit. By lunchtime, albeit after the occasional hiccup, I had the conversion completed and running on my rolling road. A good talking point for visitors in the afternoon as well as demonstrating in the morning. Photos of before and after below. I did take a video of the loco working on the rolling road but don’t seem to be able to load it up here.

Thanks Stuart and Nick for a very enjoyable day!

Nigel

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AJC

Western Thunderer
Great work! Had it not been for the rail strikes I might have gone, but tomorrow has Mothering Sunday and nets or to the rapidly coming season (though given how wet our ground is, not before mid-May at home) so not this year.

Adam
 

Herb Garden

Western Thunderer
Only tangentially linked to Elmham Market but I was roped in to steward for the EMGS stand at Ally Pally today. Great engagement from visitors and an enthusiastic EMGS team lead by Stuart Firth with Nick Ridgeway providing experienced support and me helping out.

I wasn’t sure what to try my hand at but felt an activity that demystified providing steam outline motive power in EM might help waverers. Accordingly I took along a Hornby J15 still in its box and an Alan Gibson conversion kit. By lunchtime, albeit after the occasional hiccup, I had the conversion completed and running on my rolling road. A good talking point for visitors in the afternoon as well as demonstrating in the morning. Photos of before and after below. I did take a video of the loco working on the rolling road but don’t seem to be able to load it up here.

Thanks Stuart and Nick for a very enjoyable day!

Nigel

View attachment 182824View attachment 182825
Great work as ever Nigel!

As discussed it's very frustrating to have spent a month and a half struggling with the brassmasters conversion kit and you've done the conversion in less than a day ... Maybe the moral of the story is that I shouldn't over complicate things .... So the next Y14 will maybe get converted in a different way..... (Reaches for Alan Gibson catalogue)
 

James Spooner

Western Thunderer
Great work as ever Nigel!

As discussed it's very frustrating to have spent a month and a half struggling with the brassmasters conversion kit and you've done the conversion in less than a day ... Maybe the moral of the story is that I shouldn't over complicate things .... So the next Y14 will maybe get converted in a different way..... (Reaches for Alan Gibson catalogue)
George

I think you have already found Pete Hill’s notes on how he converted a Hornby Y14/J15 to EM and I have done three now, each one being no more than an evening/morning’s work. Happy to chat through any wrinkles in the process; just WhatsApp me and we can have a Zoom call.

Cheers

Nigel
 

76043

Western Thunderer
Quick query, if it can be done with Gibson's can it be done with Markits wheels?
Cheers
Tony
 

AJC

Western Thunderer
Quick query, if it can be done with Gibson's can it be done with Markits wheels?
Cheers
Tony

Markits' wheels are wider over the treads (I don't have a set to hand so can't provide a dimension - though I have used them under my West Country - the Gibson's I have to hand are 2.36mm wide) than Gibson's so there may be an issue with clearance inside the splashers, or the challenge of thinning the inside of splashers without bursting through.

Adam
 

James Spooner

Western Thunderer
Markits' wheels are wider over the treads (I don't have a set to hand so can't provide a dimension - though I have used them under my West Country - the Gibson's I have to hand are 2.36mm wide) than Gibson's so there may be an issue with clearance inside the splashers, or the challenge of thinning the inside of splashers without bursting through.

Adam
The other is is that the Hornby J15 is manufactured with 2mm diameter axles. Gibson’s do special wheel packs with 2mm centres especially for this job (also works on the Oxford N7 which has the same size wheels and 2mm diameter axles). I’m not sure whether Markits driving wheels are available with 2mm diameter centres.

Nigel
 

AJC

Western Thunderer
2mm axles? I'd no idea - Markits certainly do 3mm axles, but I haven't thought to look for smaller ones.

Thanks,

Adam
 

76043

Western Thunderer
Thanks all, wow 2mm axles. That rules out Markits for sure. Thanks for the info, means I should purchase only the body if going down the Markits route.
Cheers
Tony
 

Herb Garden

Western Thunderer
Tony

If you want to use markets wheels to convert the J15 the brassmasters easichas kit is an option as it takes 1/8" axles

However I will stress that I found it quite a challenge and am still struggling to get it to work on mine. (But that is most likely me and nothing to do with the kit) I know others have built a great model out of it.

You can see progress on my thread here:

The Chronicles of Canary Sidings

Sorry Nigel for the shameless plug on your excellent thread

Herbie
 

James Spooner

Western Thunderer
Tony

If you want to use markets wheels to convert the J15 the brassmasters easichas kit is an option as it takes 1/8" axles

However I will stress that I found it quite a challenge and am still struggling to get it to work on mine. (But that is most likely me and nothing to do with the kit) I know others have built a great model out of it.

You can see progress on my thread here:

The Chronicles of Canary Sidings

Sorry Nigel for the shameless plug on your excellent thread

Herbie
Not a problem George, plug away!!
 
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