Chas's workbench

[Chas Levin]

This is a very prevalent thing now Rob, especially on Ebay and I'm sure elsewhere, people shipping from overseas (very often but not always China) and being very coy about it - or in some cases actually hiding the fact - until you've started the purchasing process. Well done for spotting that one though!
Spotting whether clips that don't specify a material are aluminium or not from low resolution internet photos is another hurdle: I think @Phil O is right and the best bet is to visit some hairdressers or hairdressing supply places.

 

[oldravendale]

Descriptions, certainly on the Bay of E, can be misleading as well. I bought some "brass" brushes. When they arrived they were brassed steel so I offered return for my money back. They didn't want them back but refunded. Then I went on Amazon and the same thing happened. Possibly the same (possibly Chinese) supplier.

Brian

 

[Rob Pulham]

and the best bet is to visit some hairdressers or hairdressing supply places.

Hi Chaz,

The irony in this case is that it was from a hairdressing supplies company.

I agree I usually try to buy from uk based suppliers when buying from eBay because I have been caught out by ordering from China then having to wait for a couple of months or more for delivery. But I have been caught out a couple of times where the company description stating they were in the UK (in one instance that I can recall in Leicester) but actually being in Shanghai or other place in mainland China as confirmed when the package arrived by direct post from China. That said on the couple of occasions where that has happened, the delivery has still only taken a couple of days.

 

[Chas Levin]

Descriptions, certainly on the Bay of E, can be misleading as well. I bought some "brass" brushes. When they arrived they were brassed steel so I offered return for my money back. They didn't want them back but refunded. Then I went on Amazon and the same thing happened. Possibly the same (possibly Chinese) supplier.

Brian

Yes, that's a rather unfortunate consequence of ultra-cheap mass production and either very slim or very large margins. In my day job, certain suppliers tell us they aren't interested in faulty items being returned too... And I'm just talking about the commercial perspective, never mind the objectionable waste and the landfill implications!

 

[Chas Levin]

Hi Chaz,

The irony in this case is that it was from a hairdressing supplies company.

I agree I usually try to buy from uk based suppliers when buying from eBay because I have been caught out by ordering from China then having to wait for a couple of months or more for delivery. But I have been caught out a couple of times where the company description stating they were in the UK (in one instance that I can recall in Leicester) but actually being in Shanghai or other place in mainland China as confirmed when the package arrived by direct post from China. That said on the couple of occasions where that has happened, the delivery has still only taken a couple of days.

Ah yes, those mysteriously quick deliveries from overseas, with no sign of Customs attention. As you say Rob, some things take weeks, some days: odd.

And I do wonder sometimes when an overseas seller uses Ebay's 'Global Shipping Program' and things arrive in Ebay packaging (branded boxes and parcel tape) with no sign of postage or Customs activity and therefore no way of knowing whether the relevant Duty and/or Tax has been paid. Is this stuff just coming over in bulk on private freight flights marked as 'miscellaneous - duty paid' and then being re-packed at an Ebay 'Fulfillment Centre' somewhere in the UK...?! Or am I getting too suspicious?

 

[Rob Pulham]

Ah yes, those mysteriously quick deliveries from overseas, with no sign of Customs attention. As you say Rob, some things take weeks, some days: odd.

And I do wonder sometimes when an overseas seller uses Ebay's 'Global Shipping Program' and things arrive in Ebay packaging (branded boxes and parcel tape) with no sign of postage or Customs activity and therefore no way of knowing whether the relevant Duty and/or Tax has been paid. Is this stuff just coming over in bulk on private freight flights marked as 'miscellaneous - duty paid' and then being re-packed at an Ebay 'Fulfillment Centre' somewhere in the UK...?! Or am I getting too suspicious?

Hi Chaz,

That's a new one on me, I have never had anything delivered in eBay branded packaging or tape. A treat in store for sometime in the future perhaps...

 

[Chas Levin]

Both solebars are now firmly - but cleanly! - araldited in place. These two views show how neatly everything goes together, between the Airfix plastic parts and the Masokits chassis, plus you can see the white strips of plastic card used to pad out the rear face of the plastic solebars. I opted not to fill the full depth of the gap between the rear plastic faces and the brass chassis outsides, so that there would be a space for a slightly thicker layer of araldite to sit between the two surfaces:

 

[paulc]

Both solebars are now firmly - but cleanly! - araldited in place. These two views show how neatly everything goes together, between the Airfix plastic parts and the Masokits chassis, plus you can see the white strips of plastic card used to pad out the rear face of the plastic solebars. I opted not to fill the full depth of the gap between the rear plastic faces and the brass chassis outsides, so that there would be a space for a slightly thicker layer of araldite to sit between the two surfaces:

View attachment 220269

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Hi Chas , remember with Araldite/epoxy glue that you can smooth it out just as its hardening using a cotton bud dipped in IPA plus you can also trim it with a knife at the same time . A versatile stage in the curing process .

 

[Chas Levin]

Hi Chas , remember with Araldite/epoxy glue that you can smooth it out just as its hardening using a cotton bud dipped in IPA plus you can also trim it with a knife at the same time . A versatile stage in the curing process .

Thanks Paul - I do trim later in the curing process if possible but I'd not heard of smoothing it with IPA before, that's very interesting. Is the function of the IPA to remove expoxy material or change the surface, or is it just to prevent the bud sticking?

Trimming in this case would have been awkward because of the various parts of the underframe so I tried to use sufficient for a strong bond but not enough to need trimming and it seems to have worked very well, but I'll try the IPA smoothing trick on my next araldite job...

 

[paulc]

Thanks Paul - I do trim later in the curing process if possible but I'd not heard of smoothing it with IPA before, that's very interesting. Is the function of the IPA to remove expoxy material or change the surface, or is it just to prevent the bud sticking?

Trimming in this case would have been awkward because of the various parts of the underframe so I tried to use sufficient for a strong bond but not enough to need trimming and it seems to have worked very well, but I'll try the IPA smoothing trick on my next araldite job..

Hi Chas , its to stop the bud sticking and allows you to move the epoxy around and smooth the joint . Don't hang around though because it doesn't slow the drying process down .

 

[Chas Levin]

Yesterday saw some other details added, starting with the valve wheel for the top of the tank, which the instructions show a neat way of making from 1/16" and 1/32" brass tube, 0.4mm brass wire and one of the wheels on one of the kit's etches:



Here's the result, just posed in place at this stage:



I then turned to the draw-off pipe caps... and discovered a slight oversight and inaccuracy on my part, from earlier in the build. The instructions advise leaving the 5/64" projecting 4mm beyond the brass solebar so they can be trimmed to length after the plastic solebar overlays have been fitted. I'm usually very careful about measuring things but for some reason I'd left the lengths of the ends of that pipe somewhat to chance, judging by eye, even though it would have been very easy to hold the plastic solebar pieces in place to assess what was needed.
Here's what I found when I looked more closely at the draw-off pipe ends - one's slightly too long, one is ever so slightly too short:






I decided that the one that's slightly too short would be fine once the cap was added, but filing back the overly long one without damaging the plastic overlay was not fun. If I build one of these again, I'd sort out the draw-off pipe's length while it's being installed, even though the instructions suggest filing it to length after the plastic's been fitted.

The instructions suggest forming caps for the pipe by crimping the end of a piece of 1/16" brass rod to form a raised centre line, but all the photos of these tankers I've so far seen have a cap with either a four or six sided bolt head set in a wider disc, so I decided to fabricate something like that from brass M0.6 hex bolts, with a larger washer held between the M0.6 bolt and its nut (nuts and bolts this small available from Prime Miniatures - no connection, just a happy customer). Here are the constituent parts (apologies for the poor focus, the picture looked better on my phone!):



Here are the resulting assemblies:



And here's the result installed:



Lastly, for a session focussed on small but quite time-consuming details, the brake levers and ratchets. These aren't complicated, the parts are all included in the kit and were assmebled as per the instructions, so I won't go into detail, but here are some pictures of them in place:







Vac pipes and coupling mounts next, then weighting...

 

[matto21]

Amazing work, keep the updates coming!

The underframe is a work of art - it'll be a shame to paint it!

 

[Chas Levin]

Amazing work, keep the updates coming!

The underframe is a work of art - it'll be a shame to paint it!

Thanks! I agree about the painting, but there's no avoiding it. I'll take plenty of photos of it first though, in its final unpainted state.

Is should also have said by the way that there's slight lens distortion in some of the photos and the buffers are completely straight, as are the brake ratchets, as it looks as if there's some drooping and angling going on! I keep reminding myself that I should take photos from a little further away to avoid that and then I forget and go in too close...

 

[matto21]

I received my underframe kit last week. Your build is going to be really useful when I get around to starting it.

 

[Chas Levin]

I received my underframe kit last week. Your build is going to be really useful when I get around to starting it.

Excellent! I'm very pleased to have helped inspire you to build one. If you usually post pics of your builds online, please will you post some when it's done? Pre-painting, of course! ;-) I couldn't find any pictures of anyone else having built one but I'm sure there must be other builds out there...

 

[matto21]

Excellent! I'm very pleased to have helped inspire you to build one. If you usually post pics of your builds online, please will you post some when it's done? Pre-painting, of course! ;-) I couldn't find any pictures of anyone else having built one but I'm sure there must be other builds out there...

Sure thing! I have a workbench thread:

Matt's workbench - current project: a Grampus

Hi all, Been a very long time since I last posted. Been a difficult year, made worse by personal losses but, in the background, I have been meandering along with a variety of half finished projects in my limited spare time. I'm still working on my micro layout, and I will update the thread...

www.westernthunder.co.uk

And I'll post updates when I (eventually) get round to it!

Matt

 

[Chas Levin]

Sure thing! I have a workbench thread:

Matt's workbench - current project: a Grampus

Hi all, Been a very long time since I last posted. Been a difficult year, made worse by personal losses but, in the background, I have been meandering along with a variety of half finished projects in my limited spare time. I'm still working on my micro layout, and I will update the thread...

www.westernthunder.co.uk

And I'll post updates when I (eventually) get round to it!

Matt

Nice, thanks Matt - I think I had seen it but hadn't put it on my Watch list, done now though. Some lovely wagonry there...

 

[Chas Levin]

Well, I keep thinking I'm at the 'weighting and test run' stage and then I discover some other detail that needs doing - this time, it's the vac pipes! The plastic moulded ones from the Airfix kit didn’t look very goo to my eye so I thought I'd have a go at making my own, something I've seen done by others but not tried before. I was less familiar with the type found on these wagons (the vertical ones on older stock are the sort of thing I've modelled before) so I took a look at some prototype photos to see how they appeared - here are a couple of close-ups, on case anyone else needs them. Amongst other things, I’d wondered how the ends of the hoses are secured where you see them apparently held to the buffer beam rather than just hanging down and these photos show the short metal bracket that’s bolted there, between the buffer and the coupling hook, to which the unconnected hose end is secured:





And here are some of the materials I assembled – some 0.8mm o.d. pipe with a 0.4mm i.d., some 0.4mm wire, two 16BA nuts (a tad oversized perhaps but acceptable I think) with the threads lightly removed using a broach, two similarly treated washers plus some 0.2mm wire:



In order to be able to bend the brass tube, I threaded the 0.4mm wire into it, otherwise it just collapse and folds over, and there needs to be a double ‘S’-bend where the flexible hose joins the pipe running underneath the chassis:



Leaving the 0.4mm wire protruding means it can be popped into the open end of the 0.8mm tube running beneath the chassis:



I then pinned and soldered a small length of scrap etch to the buffer beams to represent that bolted-on bracket for the end of the hose:



That gives the two end points for the curved hose – the underframe pipe and the buffer beam bracket - so that the 0.8mm wire-filled tube can be bent to shape, using the rounded and tapered jaws of a small pair of pliers:



Then, one of the reamed out nuts was popped onto the end that’ll join the U/F pipe, one end of a piece of 0.2mm wire was slipped inside the nut too and a tiny touch of the soldering iron anchors the wire:



The wire’s then wound round the curved tube and secured at the other end with one of the tiny washers. This isn’t the neatest winding I’ve seen by a long way, but for a first effort – and trying to get a move on with the project – I think they’ll pass muster at normal viewing distance:



Both pipes were then fixed to the chassis, with minimum solder at each end, only soldering from underneath in the case of the nut and the U/F chassis; under primer and paint I think they'll do the job:

 

[Chas Levin]

We now have a rolling chassis, with fully working sprung suspension on all four axleboxes:



I know building a wagon with springing is something many people have done many times before, but this is a first for me and I'm quite excited!

I'd left the long brake link unsoldered at one end and will of course solder it in place once everything's finished, but I still had to snip the safety loops (@Rob Pulham - you asked how I was going to get the wheels back in for weight testing and I realised my system of wiggling them back in had been arranged before adding the safety loops!):



The wire springs are a little fiddly to get through their holes, but it's very well illustrated in the instructions, the main idea being to get the short leg of the 'L' shape through one hole, then push the spring sufficiently far through that hole to allow the other end of the spring to go through its hole, then push the spring back so that the short leg can be secured behind the small brass flap provided for that purpose, though I'm not bending those brass flaps down at this point, as the wheels will have to come out again for painting and I don't want metal fatigue to carry the spring securing flaps away! Here are a couple of pics of the spring wires in place - again, I know this isn;t anything very new, but actually you don't seem to see that many pics of suspension springs in detail so it might be helpful to someone else new to this.
In this first pic, with the spring wire circled in red, you can see that spring securing brass flap I mentioned, just inside the left-hand end of the red circling:



And in this second pic, the loose end of the flap is sitting bent upwards, parallel to the wagon floor:



Now to get the weighting sorted out. The precision of the springing movement is very satisfying to play with and watch, exactly as I'd hoped it would be - can't really show that in a still photo of course, but you can imagine it:

 

[Chas Levin]

Chas,

I have found the 0.075" and 0.008" guitar strings work better with my wagons with a total weight of 50 - 60 grams. One of the main factors is the distance between the suspension points of your springs and your distance could be greater than that on my S scale "W" irons.

My S scale wagons have wooden or styrene bodies which weigh in single figures of grams so I get the weight up by building underframes from brass section and adding bits of lead sheet in the bases of the "W" iron etches.

Russ Elliot on CLAG gives formulae for doing the calculations for wire springs :-

Wire Spring Formulae

I've used these formulae and they do work.

Jim.

Thanks again for the advice Jim: in the end, I added 30g for a total weight of 70g, which gives a buffer ride height that matches other vehicles.

Here are some pictures of the wagon ready for cleaning and painting - the brass additions to the tank are only posed and the tank's only posed on the chassis, so that various parts can be primed and painted separately: