Ceejaydee's Darkside Musings - HO, N Scale and prototype US Railroading.

[ceejaydee]

Like many of us (I imagine) the majority of my modelling focus (be that actual or armchair) is based primarily on youthful nostalgia (vastly overrated) and most definitely on British railway practice.
I also dabble in narrow gauge but the reality is that I enjoy visiting some ng lines so much that I do not seek to replicate them in model form in any way.

I will admit that I have long had an interest in railroads from t'other side of the pond; ever since seeing ex-Triang Transcontinental locos and stock in Zodiac toys more years ago than I care to remember.
A while back I bought a single US outline HO scale loco with a view to using it as a base for a 7mm ng body. However after several extended test runs I fell in love with the little beast and began to think of dabbling in US outline railroading.... someday...

As I currently offload vast quantities of other non-railway hobby items onto the electronic bay I find that once again my thoughts tun to that loco and after many hours of looking at various prototype railroad sites I am asking those better versed in things US which brands of model should I consider and which should I avoid?

From a prototype perspective I am primarily interested in diesel hauled freight trains with a period spanning mid 50s to mid 70s.

I know (or I think I know) to avoid Tyco, Mehano & Model Power but from Athearn, Walthers, Kato etc which are the better models to go for?

I suppose that I also need to think about KayDees too at some point early on if anyone is knowledgeable in such dark matters?

All information and suggestions welcome!

 

[Steph Dale]

Christopher,

What he (Jordan) said. Exspecially the bit about Athearn. The later models (even 'Blue Box') are very good in terms of drive quality and mouldings, it's just a shame that the standard motor is a power hungry pain.
I have plenty of locos in my US roster which started out as Athearn Blue Box locos, but they've all had their wheels replaced and have been re-motored in one way or another. The larger Mashimas (16xx and 18xx series) work very well - Branchlines even do a special cardan drive set with the necessary 2mm (motor) to 3/32" (truck) bores. In terms of finish they benefit from being re-sprayed and, of course, any details are up to you.

Proto is good stuff; the Proto1000 range in particular is great value for money, I rate their F-unit as second only to the masterful Athearn Genesis. I also agree with Jordan's points on Atlas, Athearn Genesis and Kato, the updated Athearn Ready-to-Roll range is also worth the money IMHO. Apart from the F-unit. Ever.

One to consider if you want noisy trains are the Blueline range of locos. And for certain types (esp. the Alco RSD15)they're worth buying and taking out the sound, if you want quiet trains!

In terms of couplers I agree with the principle outlined above, but the problem is that nothing works quite as well as the original Kadee coupler system. I routinely replace any provided coupler with Kadee #158 ('scale' coupler) or one of it's close relatives so you get good performance and great appearance. It is also worth buying the Kadee coupler height jig and trip-pin pliers if you get more than a dozen vehicles or so.

Oh, and don't go for Canadian-outline unless you're either a; half-blind or b; like a hard time. At first glance they look the same as US-built locos. Generally they're not. Guess how I know this...

And as Jordan so wonderfully put it:

So, what engine have you got, then..??

Steph

 

[ceejaydee]

Thank you for your wisdom Master

Not knowing too much and having fun in my ignorance is a main aim for this diversion but as you say with 'Short Lines' and such there is almost an 'anything goes' philosophy to it all.

My solitary loco is a Bachmann Spectrum GE 44Ton Switcher; a nice runner too considering how cheap it was.
I have my eye on one of the recently released Bachmann Alco S4 Switchers which is available with factory DCC sound for under £100 - reviews seem promising and from the videos I've watched it sounds good too!

I've had a Carl Arendt shunting layout plan hanging around for ages begging to be built but I'll maybe add a loop and use some of that Peco Code 75 that is hanging around and see how it goes.

I'll leave questions on decal sheets and detailing parts etc. for another time....

Thanks for the reply!

 

[ceejaydee]

Thanks for the information Steph.
From looking a loads of photos recently I understand your point about similar looking locos made for the Canadian market that are quite different when studied in detail.

Another question is where would you usually source these models from? I know that The Signal Box, Kernow Models and MG Sharp all stock to various degrees US outline HO but are there any special places that I should be looking?

Hope that the anticipation of my loco wasn't a let down.

GE 44 Tonner No.76 in Western Maryland Fireball livery - not wanting to become an anorak on things WM but it does turn out to be a loco number that actually existed for WM although the loco was sold on in '64.

I think that I need to get some freight cars and then have a play

Thanks for the reply.

 

[Steph Dale]

Well, it's interesting that neither Jordan nor I considered Bachmann when we replied to your message! But (generally) Spectrum is good stuff - particularly the steam locos. For the other stuff in their range it's worth looking at the newer cheapie range - but don't expect the decoders to be much to write home about if you buy a DCC-fitted loco. The Alco S4 you mention is pretty good; although there's something slightly awry with the cab - although I can't put my finger on what. It's good value in either silent or noisy form, the latter features a simplified Soundtraxx 'Tsunami'. The new Alco FA and EMD GP7/9 look good (if a little basic) to my eyes.

In terms of sources, well Hattons and many of the regular UK stores are good, worth keeping an eye on the Signal Box and Kernow certainly. Don't bother with MGSharp - Model Junction are far more helpfull and seem to have better prices (and carry stock!). Most of the US-outline stuff I buy new comes from there. US stores can be very helpfull too, I deal direct with Walthers (esp. for detail parts and kits as most UK shops don't carry stock), Caboose Hobbies (brass!!!) and Central Hobbies, the latter useful for Canadian-outline stuff.

Oh and in terms of secondhand prices, it should be much cheaper than you think: P2K locos should be under £40 for really mint examples. If the loco clonks when test-run; it shouldn't (cracked gears). It's worth bartering the vendor down over the spare parts you'll have to get (for all of about $5 and ten minutes of your valuable time!). I've picked up P2k GP9s with cracked gears for as little as a tenner when sold as 'spares or repair'. Athearn Blue Box should be under about £20-25 for most models (there are some rarer/better ones which may make a little more although the £60 I saw an SP SW1500 go for on eBay this week was a joke - it'd be possible to bring two or three in from the US for that money!, or buy an 'as new' Ready-to-Roll version with much better detail and paint). Other brands seem to keep their prices, arguably because they were premium models in the first place.

If you decide you want to get into detailing locos then drop me another line - there's a good forum and many sources of details, some of whom are not carried by Walthers. There are also some very nice kits available for certain locos, although you tend to have to sort your own drive out (which is generally easier than one might expect).

But yeah, go for the freight cars; watch for those paint/build dates! Branchlines Blueprint series or Kadee boxcars would be a good start for something 'in period'...

Steph

 

[ceejaydee]

Thanks again Steph.
Some of those links look very interesting and Model Junction have lots of goodies to muse over.
I think that buying a few freight cars and then having a play is the initial route forward before I over indulge in locomotives from the outset - which I always have a tendency to do (don't we all love locos?)

<Ramble mode ON>
Fixing locos and re-building could well be of interest in the future as whilst I do enjoy building kits I really am far more of a fixer than an actual builder, even if the fix becomes so involved that starting from scratch would have been easier and made more sense It has taken me years and piles of unbuilt kits to actually admit that which is why I am starting to look back at a blend of modified rtr with a few kits rather than dreaming about a scratch built railway that will never be - a compromise that I need to come to terms with to make progress. <Ramble mode OFF>

I have another tyro question regarding train brakes; will I need to use a caboose or were the majority of trains fully braked during the period of interest? (mid 50s to mid 70s) or is that too much of a general question?

 

[ceejaydee]

Thanks Jordan; some parallels to our own brake vans in terms of use it would seem.

 

[ceejaydee]

I'm pretty sure that mine is a later version although I haven't taken it apart to check - that will happen when I fit the chip.
Had it running round a circle of R2 track on the dining room table a couple of months ago and was bewitched by the wee beastie... 'Why don't you run some wagons with it?' my good lady asked, 'I don't have any suitable because it is American' I replied, 'Better ebay some stuff you don't want and then use the money to buy things you do' jolly good advice lady

At the moment I am still gravitating towards the sound S4 along with some freight cars but wtith a few personal financial commitments to get out of the way over the next couple of weeks I will probably wait until the second week of May before spending anything..... that may change however if I can arrrange something near Slough next Thursday or Friday and find the time to swing by Model Junction

 

[ceejaydee]

Steph and I cannot be held responsible for any consequences in this matter....

No blame will be apportioned to the learned Gentlemen.
Although I did pick up a copy of 'Model Railroader' this evening

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

A belated welcome t'other side of t'pond and I cannot add much more to what has already been said. I'm one of those blind and stupid ones who models Canadian National as well as Cotton Belt and SP. In addition to the stores mentioned above I also deal with Pacific Western Rail Sytems (PWRS) in Canada at pwrs.ca.

I also have a Bachmann 70 tonner which was DCC fitted but the decoder was very basic and subsequently removed.

As far as I know US freight trains were air braked early on and as Jordan has pointed out they all carried a caboose up to the 70's and 80's. Transfer cabooses are still common for yard transfer services and are still occasionally used in Canada.

The latest loco I picked up was an Atlas Gold Series GE Dash 8-39B in BC Rail blue. This is redecorated US version and I already have a list as long as my arm of modifications to correct it for Canada......

I'll just have to calm down with the Model Railroader .

 

[ceejaydee]

Hello Dave,
From my research I see that the Canadians have actually invaded a large portion of Northern America through strategic acquisition
Safety cabs and all those other differences mean that I'll probably stay clear of those CN & CP related items despite some of the liveries being quite appealing.

I'm still looking at the Western Maryland at the moment with maybe a little B&O in the longer term; I've also come up with a few ideas for a fictitious independent with running rights which may add a little spice.

Still no commitment on the purchasing front as yet but I know how my personal floodgates open when I become obsessed so it is definitely gently does it for now

 

[ceejaydee]

Well the pull of Model Junction was a little too strong this week when I was nearby and an enjoyable couple of hours were spent there looking and being shown various wares by the helpful owners and interested customers.
With an impending major event soon money is a little thin at the moment but I did manage to purchase a loco and a few freight cars; a couple of pictures may be taken and posted this weekend.

 

[Steph Dale]

Well the pull of Model Junction was a little too strong this week when I was nearby and an enjoyable couple of hours were spent there looking and being shown various wares by the helpful owners and interested customers.
With an impending major event soon money is a little thin at the moment but I did manage to purchase a loco and a few freight cars; a couple of pictures may be taken and posted this weekend.

Tsk tsk, you can't really it at that can you? C'mon then, whadya get?

Steph

 

[ceejaydee]

C'mon then, whadya get?

Steph

Nothing too exciting or technical - Bachmann Alco RS3 & 4 Atlas Trainman 2-bay offset side hoppers.

I like the way this stock hooks up with the buckeyes.

 

[ceejaydee]

I might have picked up some Kato AC&F 70T hopper kits in my favourite RailRoad livery
Well after opening them up I admit that I am in very unfamiliar territory; they don't look anything like the Airfix, Dapol or Parkside kit that I am used to.
All parts included and already painted, lettered and no glue required for assembly; even I have no excuse not to build these at some point

 

[ceejaydee]

Proto is good stuff; the Proto1000 range in particular is great value for money, I rate their F-unit as second only to the masterful Athearn Genesis.
Steph

Is it all the Proto 1000 F Units that you rate highly Steph? F3 included?

 

[Steph Dale]

Christopher,

Aah, re-reading that I can see I may not have been entirely clear. The P2k F7 is probably the equal of the Highliner/Genesis one. in terms of the cheaper P1k range, yes, I rate the F3 highly. It's not quite there in shape, lacking the sublt crease down the centre of the nose, for example. But it's very affordable, robust, runs well and is a great basis for any further detailing. The painting and finishing tends to be pretty sharp too.

Well worth a punt if you come across one at a sensible price, I feel. FYI, the mechanism fits the Highliner shell well too; I've got a stack of these locos put by ready for exactly that.

Steph

 

[ceejaydee]

Something for me to aspire to?

 

[Dog Star]

It'll take years to complete, oh and I've always wondered what happens if, 15 years into your 'Dream Empire' modelling XYZ Railroad in the Rocky Mountains, your interest changes and you want to model ABC Railroad on the Mid-West Plains instead....

Or the Good Lady wants to take up scrapbooking and hence needs a studio?

Or the children leave home and you need a bigger house ('cos now, when any of them come back, there is m,ore than the one which left!)

 

[ceejaydee]

My tongue was very firmly in my cheek when I made the OP
That layout isn't just bigger than the house that I am living in; most likely it has a footprint bigger than my house and garden together!
When I look at some of the US layouts and see that in needs 12 operators to be able to run then I do wonder why you'd spend 15 years building it? Maybe those folks see it more of a regular social activity and in effect hold club meetings at their layout rather like Crewchester and Sherwood Section over here in the old days.

Have to agree on the comments about long-term commitment though as I find that like most modellers my interests are varied and do change all too frequently
Fifteen years??? I might change my interests in fifteen days