Ceejaydee's Darkside Musings - HO, N Scale and prototype US Railroading.

[Steph Dale]

For a small shunting layout you might want to see this page: http://www.euram-online.co.uk/layouts/coltonjunction/coltonjunction.htm a shameless plug for my own 'site, the layout was designed and built by Yorkshire Dave of this parish.

I've literally lost hours operating the layout at a show, with sweet running stock and Kadees it's a pleasure. The siding lengths are quite calculated to run well with 40' cars and locos around the same length as GP9. Adding in the odd 50' car or using a steam loco can get the cogs going which is a good way to maintain interest.

Steph

 

[ceejaydee]

Shameless plug yes... but a very useful link nonetheless - thanks

Edit - How long is the layout Steph?

I'm thinking along similar lines with a maximum of 50'-53' car length and small switcher type locos for operation as a starter design. Testing of bigger stuff can take place but may have no firm place in the operating sessions.
As it is I only have one loco that isn't a switcher and even that is a road-switcher.
I just can't decide if I want a run around on the layout yet or a simpler (but shorter) set of sidings.
Run around would give greater operating pleasure and therefore be longer-lived but simpler layout may get built quicker...... regardless more playing testing is required

 

[Steph Dale]

How long is the layout Steph?

Hmm, I'm sure Dave can confirm, but it must be around the 8ft mark.

I'm with you on the playing/testing though; currently rolling a QSI sound-equipped Intermountain FP7 up and down the test track (all 50" of it!), in the name of 'decoder programming'...

Steph

 

[ceejaydee]

Hmm, I'm sure Dave can confirm, but it must be around the 8ft mark.

I'm with you on the playing/testing though; currently rolling a QSI sound-equipped Intermountain FP7 up and down the test track (all 50" of it!), in the name of 'decoder programming'...

Steph

More questions...
Did you fit the decoder yourself Steph or was the loco factory fitted?
How would I go about sourcing sound decoders for any of my non-sound locos that I wanted to upgrade?
What decoders do folks recommend for US gear; I have a couple of TCS that I will try out sometime but are there any preferences?

 

[Steph Dale]

It's a factory fitted decoder. Which makes the installation easier - I've yet to find one that works as I'd want it to straight out of the box. In the case of this one the running needs smoothing out (looking for a good balance between inertia and control; and it must synchronise with the sound), the speaker will be replaced and fitted to a bigger enclosure. I also need to get backup lights installed - so I've got to see if there are any spare connections on the decoder that would suit.

I'm generally 'sold' on ESU LokSound decoders as I find all the criteria above relatively straightforward to set up. To the point that I bought the LokProgrammer and can now load my own (or tweaked) sound profiles on to decoders.

For sound decoders there are a couple of issues associated with installation; the principle one from our perspective is where and how to install the sound chamber. Then there's space for the decoder and then lighting effects.

Sound decoders are available from a variety of sources. I've indicated my support for ESU although my experience is limited to v3, v3.5 and v4. The 'Select' range look good value and seem easy to install so might be worth a punt. Then there's QSI; I've had no luck with the early versions (up to v6, inclusive) although these can been upgraded to latest specs for around £20 by swapping a chip on the decoder. The FP7 I'm playing with is v7 and seems much better than of old. I'm not quite where I need to be, but the slow speed running is already much better than earlier versions. And then there's Soundtraxx. These seem to have a really good reputation in the US, but I think that has more to do with the clarity and dynamics of their sound, rather than for their running or synchronisation. However, Yorkshire Dave has done some work with a recent factory-installed one (Intermountain SD40-2w) and tells me he's got it working properly.

For decoders in general I don't recommend TCS. Lenz Gold, Silver, anything by Zimo or the ESU decoders are all I use these days. All of these are a breeze to fit to any DCC-ready loco, but need some care (and hard-wiring) to fit to anything which isn't DCC-ready. If you're looking for a decoder to drop out the existing circuit and drop in a new one then NCE is worth a punt. They don't run as well as those I've suggested, but the installation is quick, painless and running would be good enough for most people.

Any help?

Steph

 

[ceejaydee]

Any help?

Oh yes - thank you

QSI Titan seems interesting as if I am reading the blurb correctly you choose a decoder for a specific manufacturer say Alco and then by tweaking CV's can change the actual power unit and horn etc..... or have I got it wrong.

Anyway basic decoders first then; I'll open up a couple of locos and see what to do.

I'm generally 'sold' on ESU LokSound decoders as I find all the criteria above relatively straightforward to set up. To the point that I bought the LokProgrammer and can now load my own (or tweaked) sound profiles on to decoders.

Must be the ultimate in sound equipped locos - being able to sort your own.

Any reason why you don't like TCS? Bad experience?

 

[Steph Dale]

Any reason why you don't like TCS? Bad experience?

Yes. No. (In that order!)

I'm not prepared to go into it here, but there are some pretty good reasons I wouldn't stick a TCS decoder in a model of mine. There are plenty of other good choices out there...

Steph

 

[ceejaydee]

Yes. No. (In that order!)

I'm not prepared to go into it here, but there are some pretty good reasons I wouldn't stick a TCS decoder in a model of mine. There are plenty of other good choices out there...

Steph

No problems

 

[Steph Dale]

Sorry I missed your other points! Answers follow...

QSI Titan seems interesting as if I am reading the blurb correctly you choose a decoder for a specific manufacturer say Alco and then by tweaking CV's can change the actual power unit and horn etc..... or have I got it wrong.

You may be right - it was my assumption too, but couldn't find anything specific on the website to confirm. It would be one reason for them to put such flippin' huge memory chips on their decoders.

Anyway basic decoders first then; I'll open up a couple of locos and see what to do.

A good starting point, I'd say. You can start with a few cheaper decoders and have look at the various connectors. It'll also be a good introduction to things like lighting and CV settings to tailor a decoder, either of these steps tend to be handled in the factory installation, although Bachmann seem to be particularly bad at the 'tailoring' bit.

Must be the ultimate in sound equipped locos - being able to sort your own.

It is rather. Thankfully the ESU sound library is large and provides a useful starting point for many locos. The latest LokSound decoder can be programmed in all sorts of ways. It's a very powerful tool, but one that takes a great deal of practise to use effectively. I'm starting to get there, but it's taken me a while.

I must be "most people" then, as I like the NCE decoders...

Yeah - and there's the truth of it - I'm just really picky!

I noticed your comment in Pugsleys thread about turning off the BEMF. I concede it's unlikely to do any harm to a motor and had always thought it helped out with the speed matching of locos, consisting, that sort of thing. Do you have problems consisting different types even with the feedback disabled?

I also haven't had any huge difficulties with speed matching locos, but recognise that the approach varies hugely depending on the decoder. We don't consist very often at all (short-line operations) so don't have many problems; I have seen what happens when two locos with quite 'hard' feedback are in consist and it's not hugely clever. It's also easiest to set up speed matching with decoders from the same manufacturer, but not always a necessity.

Steph

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

ceejaydee said: ↑

How long is the layout Steph?​

Hmm, I'm sure Dave can confirm, but it must be around the 8ft mark.

The layout was around 7ft by 14 inches.

ceejaydee said: ↑

QSI Titan seems interesting as if I am reading the blurb correctly you choose a decoder for a specific manufacturer say Alco and then by tweaking CV's can change the actual power unit and horn etc..... or have I got it wrong.​

You may be right - it was my assumption too, but couldn't find anything specific on the website to confirm. It would be one reason for them to put such flippin' huge memory chips on their decoders.

I've been playing around with an Atlas BCR Dash 8 with a factory fitted QSI decoder which reads on SPROG II as a Titan which I suspect is actually a version between their Revolution and Titan decoders. They tend to be programmed with sounds for a particular prototype. You can upload sounds into QSI decoder but only with their programmer. I think my loco has a few horn and other sounds but I'll have to check this out.

Like Steph, I tend to stick with ESU sound decoders due to their large sound library and ability to manipulate these or use Zimo or Lenz Gold in non-sound locos.

However, I have an Intermountain CN SD40-2W with a factory fitted Soundtraxx Tsunami decoder which I have also been playing around with. I must admit I haven't tried other decoders.

 

[ceejaydee]

I'll ask the good folks at Model Junction about the QSI Titan.
I'll need to upgrade my DCC system before I get too involved with CV alterations as my Dynamis can only program and not read which makes it tricky to make changes to existing equipped locos and just as hard in those where I am fitting decoders..... unless you are an effective record keeper... which I am not

I only have experience of Bachmann decoders (both factory fit and those i have fitted) and TCS decoders as I hard-wired a T1 to my G scale Percy. I have fitted Massoth plug & play to some of my LGB locos but I view that as a different thing to HO scale.

As much as I enjoy my sessions with sound I can also see the ongoing appeal of some non-sound locos in the fleet for those quieter times. OK so you can mute the sound but I still think that creates some decoder/speaker/interference sound which is possibly a real headache giver.

As things progress I'll be building something to run downstairs for our quiet evenings in where we chill and listen to music so sound would be a real no-no on those occasions.

 

[ceejaydee]

A little light thread necromancy....

Been off railways for a while but yesterday I picked up a loco that I ordered back in December and had a little play today albeit up and down a yard length of Streamline.



As the box says Walters Mainline GP 15 with DCC sound at less than £120.
Also took the plunge and picked up an NCE Powercab starter set at the same time and initial impressions are that it is a pretty good bit of kit.

Maybe these purchases and some fine weather will enable me to find the inspiration to build a small layout US stylee

 

[Joe's Garage]

Hi Christopher
I have been in the "Dark zone" looking at some of the older threads when I came cross this one again. Funny how you sometimes forget that you have added to this already, but it was a longtime ago!
Question is what happened to the "jeep"? Also I can see others have been affected by the zone....Steph, Dave of Yorkshire and Dogstar....hmmm we are not alone.
Glad I have not parted with my HO New York Central stock.....maybe one day.
All the best
Julian

 

[Dog Star]

Hi Christopher
I have been in the "Dark zone" looking at some of the older threads when I came cross this one again.
Also I can see others have been affected by the zone....Steph, Dave of Yorkshire and Dogstar....hmmm we are not alone.

Pardon - what have I missed here? Do I need to make an appointment to see a Doctor?

 

[Dog Star]

I have no recollection whatsoever ... I really should see a doctor...

You and me both, are the chairs in the waiting room at the Back of the Class?

 

[ceejaydee]

Hi Christopher
I have been in the "Dark zone" looking at some of the older threads when I came cross this one again. Funny how you sometimes forget that you have added to this already, but it was a longtime ago!
Question is what happened to the "jeep"? Also I can see others have been affected by the zone....Steph, Dave of Yorkshire and Dogstar....hmmm we are not alone.
Glad I have not parted with my HO New York Central stock.....maybe one day.
All the best
Julian

Hello Julian,
Geep is still about with all my other US stock in large storage boxes in my bedroom.
As to whether a HO scale US layout ever appears, I'm not sure.
I had fun running the sound locos and the non-sound ones ran smooth and silent. I like the way the Kadees hook up and that everything is on trucks/bogies.
I have a bit more room nowadays so who knows what will happen
BR
Christopher

 

[Joe's Garage]

Hi guys, I must apologise for bringing up the past and sorry Graham I mistook your post for Dave's. Yes I know 9 years is a long time ago but I still like looking at the old posts. There was another post in this thread that I saw and forgot I posted a comment on too!
At least I am not alone in my meandering endeavours in this fantastic pastime.....
I do agree with Christopher though, realistic couplings that work remotely, very smooth running out of the box and so much diversity in prototypes. No wonder the "dark side" is addictive!! I've not even tried DCC yet.........
I will now get back behind the parapet or is that the door to the darkened room?
Cheers
Julian

 

[ceejaydee]

Three years on I get to see how big this 'Merican stuff really is

Actually a still from one of the videos I shot on my phone.

When a train is highballing and still takes four minutes to pass it presents quite an experience.

I had sadly fallen out of love with US railroading but feel a large amount of enthusiasm has been injected even if the current scene is not what I want to model.