Osgood
Western Thunderer
That’s very kind of you to offer, Jim, but I’ve just had a superb therapy session with Adam Savage and now feel a whole lot better
Brettell Road, 1960s black country (ish)
- Thread starter Jim S-W
- Start date
Jim smith-wright
Western Thunderer
One working that passed through the real Brettell Lane and kind of fascinated me was the St Blazey to Etruria china clay working. This service ran for years and was somewhat erratic in the paths it took. Usually going via Worcester, Stourbridge then Dudley before heading off to Bescot. Or it could go right at Stourbridge via Old Hill and (I think) Soho Junction. These routes avoided the Lickey but I've seen pictures of it going that way too in later years. When I was at University in Stoke it would often turn up at lunch time behind a pair of class 37s although it did switch to a class 60 in the time I was there.
So to have a clay train on Brettell road makes sense as a through service. I like the classic diagram 1/051 clay opens with their sort of cute, baby open wagon look about them. A little bit of rewriting of history is needed though as they tended to stay in Cornwall and not venture out to the Midlands. Brettell Road is set before the introduction of the clayliner service so my justification is that BR was trialing things out to see how they would work and thats good enough for me.
Ratio make a nice little kit for these and I was fortunate to find someone selling a box of 7 on Ebay for what basically worked out as a fiver each. The bodies go together well with a little bit of modification to make the ends fit. The kit features a somewhat crude attempt at a roller bearing and the brake levers are quite poor. It also includes cast buffers that aren't all that great. So the bearings were replaced with MJT ones although my research showed oil axleboxes to be more common anyway. Brake levers are from the Mainly Trains etch, door bangers from Rumney models and buffers from Lanarkshire models. I did one as a test then built the other 6 as a batch.
Before I move onto the sheets a bit about the weathering. I followed my usual approach of a wash of dark grime followed by a spray of AK interactive dark mud. This was then all sealed with Klear before AK interactive white ink was used (in various levels of dilution) to give an overall effect of clay staining. You don't want a fully weathered wagon at this stage, try to think of it as you are aiming for about half the effect you ultimately want.
Previously when I have done wagon sheets I make the sheet up with the ropes attached to it and then attach it to the wagon. This is a bit of a faff and sometimes the glue holding the rope to the sheet can give an odd effect so I approached this a bit differently. Roping of wagon sheets is a whole topic on its own and I will leave that too someone who has properly studied the subject but I just looked at pictures and coped what I saw. So the first stage is to attach the ropes (cotton) to the wagon - Tying it on at the visible ends and gluing to the wagon top with Loctite
This was then tided up by first sealing the knots with Zap Pink superglue. Theres no huge reason to trim the ropes inside the wagon but it pays to just keep things neat so they don't get in the way later.
As mentioned before the sheet is made from black latex gloves (actually nitrile) and mine are a brand called Supertouch. They are a bit awkward to cut as the material tends to snag on the scalpel blade even if the blade is brand new. A method I found to work best is to stretch the glove over a bit of cardboard, make a template and to cut it using the handle end of the blade not the pointy end, pushing the scalpel away from you to cut. I don't know why this makes a difference but it does! As i've mentioned in the past the material is black on the outside and a dark grey on the inside. I use the black side as its depicting wet conditions but the grey is good for a nice sunny day layout.
The sheet is then positioned in place, not forgetting to add weight inside the wagon and bulking it up with a bit of tissue first before gluing to the wagon tops in 6 places, about where the ropes are. Use Loctite and start in the middle (it sets very quickly) and remember to pull it taught as you glue the outer sides. This is one of those things were you probably need a bit of variation but you don't want to force it. I find if I try to be as neat as I can, I'm not all that neat really and I get the variation by default.
Next stage is to glue the sides of the sheet to the ropes, again with loctite and again puling the sheet taught. I found holding it in place for 10 seconds was all you need. It pays to glue the sheet the side of the wagon at the ends at this stage
On to the ends. Another drop of super glue on the top and the sheet can be glued in place. The corners can be folded and secured in place and the last set of ropes glued into the sheet itself.
The last ropes tied into place and tidied up.
The final weathering, back to the white ink (sprayed this time) with some additional grease stains on the underframe.
To break up the rake a bit I added a few 10ft wheelbase opens too. These are actually way more typical of the actual wagons used in the clayliners. The ex LMS Diagram 2150 I've featured before a few posts ago.
Likewise the ex LNE diagram 210 (although not this specific model)
A new wagon type for me is the ex LNE diagram 185. This was constructed from the body of the Cambrian kit C81 for the LNER 12ton 6 plank Open Wagon, With a Parkside 10ft underframe. Theres a few tweaks needed to the body as can be seen and theres an additional top support across the top of the door which is worth adding assuming you aren't going to cover it over with a sheet that is!
Just need an enterprising transfer manufacturer to produce some sheet markings now.
So to have a clay train on Brettell road makes sense as a through service. I like the classic diagram 1/051 clay opens with their sort of cute, baby open wagon look about them. A little bit of rewriting of history is needed though as they tended to stay in Cornwall and not venture out to the Midlands. Brettell Road is set before the introduction of the clayliner service so my justification is that BR was trialing things out to see how they would work and thats good enough for me.
Ratio make a nice little kit for these and I was fortunate to find someone selling a box of 7 on Ebay for what basically worked out as a fiver each. The bodies go together well with a little bit of modification to make the ends fit. The kit features a somewhat crude attempt at a roller bearing and the brake levers are quite poor. It also includes cast buffers that aren't all that great. So the bearings were replaced with MJT ones although my research showed oil axleboxes to be more common anyway. Brake levers are from the Mainly Trains etch, door bangers from Rumney models and buffers from Lanarkshire models. I did one as a test then built the other 6 as a batch.
Before I move onto the sheets a bit about the weathering. I followed my usual approach of a wash of dark grime followed by a spray of AK interactive dark mud. This was then all sealed with Klear before AK interactive white ink was used (in various levels of dilution) to give an overall effect of clay staining. You don't want a fully weathered wagon at this stage, try to think of it as you are aiming for about half the effect you ultimately want.
Previously when I have done wagon sheets I make the sheet up with the ropes attached to it and then attach it to the wagon. This is a bit of a faff and sometimes the glue holding the rope to the sheet can give an odd effect so I approached this a bit differently. Roping of wagon sheets is a whole topic on its own and I will leave that too someone who has properly studied the subject but I just looked at pictures and coped what I saw. So the first stage is to attach the ropes (cotton) to the wagon - Tying it on at the visible ends and gluing to the wagon top with Loctite
This was then tided up by first sealing the knots with Zap Pink superglue. Theres no huge reason to trim the ropes inside the wagon but it pays to just keep things neat so they don't get in the way later.
As mentioned before the sheet is made from black latex gloves (actually nitrile) and mine are a brand called Supertouch. They are a bit awkward to cut as the material tends to snag on the scalpel blade even if the blade is brand new. A method I found to work best is to stretch the glove over a bit of cardboard, make a template and to cut it using the handle end of the blade not the pointy end, pushing the scalpel away from you to cut. I don't know why this makes a difference but it does! As i've mentioned in the past the material is black on the outside and a dark grey on the inside. I use the black side as its depicting wet conditions but the grey is good for a nice sunny day layout.
The sheet is then positioned in place, not forgetting to add weight inside the wagon and bulking it up with a bit of tissue first before gluing to the wagon tops in 6 places, about where the ropes are. Use Loctite and start in the middle (it sets very quickly) and remember to pull it taught as you glue the outer sides. This is one of those things were you probably need a bit of variation but you don't want to force it. I find if I try to be as neat as I can, I'm not all that neat really and I get the variation by default.
Next stage is to glue the sides of the sheet to the ropes, again with loctite and again puling the sheet taught. I found holding it in place for 10 seconds was all you need. It pays to glue the sheet the side of the wagon at the ends at this stage
On to the ends. Another drop of super glue on the top and the sheet can be glued in place. The corners can be folded and secured in place and the last set of ropes glued into the sheet itself.
The last ropes tied into place and tidied up.
The final weathering, back to the white ink (sprayed this time) with some additional grease stains on the underframe.
To break up the rake a bit I added a few 10ft wheelbase opens too. These are actually way more typical of the actual wagons used in the clayliners. The ex LMS Diagram 2150 I've featured before a few posts ago.
Likewise the ex LNE diagram 210 (although not this specific model)
A new wagon type for me is the ex LNE diagram 185. This was constructed from the body of the Cambrian kit C81 for the LNER 12ton 6 plank Open Wagon, With a Parkside 10ft underframe. Theres a few tweaks needed to the body as can be seen and theres an additional top support across the top of the door which is worth adding assuming you aren't going to cover it over with a sheet that is!
Just need an enterprising transfer manufacturer to produce some sheet markings now.
Overseer
Western Thunderer
Which Loctite product do you use? Shops here sell a whole range of Loctite branded adhesives which might be different to those available in the UK.
Jim smith-wright
Western Thunderer
Jim smith-wright
Western Thunderer
A small selection of Lorries have recently been completed. Starting with...
A leyland LAD cab and chassis, destined for a wagon load on Brettel Road. The cab is Base toys with some minor tweaks and windows added to the rear. I was aiming for a new vehicle being delivered and wanted an open chassis. The source for this was a cheap Langley Models kit for a Guy Otter/ The chassis was shortened and wheels are from RTI.
Some of you may remember this. A Mercedes 407 van from the Corgi School bus. Ive carried the unmolested one around for a while now from when I did a short stint on demos on modelling road vehicles. A picture of one of these in the form of a low sided light lorry appeared on Western Thunder so I decided to do something with it
The Body is from the previously mentioned Langley kit mated to a Base Toys chassis and more RTI wheels. I need a spot of work with a sheet of sandpaper on a flat surface to get it to sit properly. This will be a reasonably old vehicle on New Street.
Next up over to Norfolk and a couple of Lorries for North Elmham. Tim provided a few images of vehicles that could be found lurking around the dairy so I set to work. The first is an Albion something or other (I don't know - I just copied what I saw) using a modified Base Toys cab with a scratchbuilt dropside body. The transfers are home brewed on decal paper.
A Bedford S type from an RTI cab and wheels again with a scratchbuild body. I'll leave the many milk churns these 2 will need up to Tim and John.
A leyland LAD cab and chassis, destined for a wagon load on Brettel Road. The cab is Base toys with some minor tweaks and windows added to the rear. I was aiming for a new vehicle being delivered and wanted an open chassis. The source for this was a cheap Langley Models kit for a Guy Otter/ The chassis was shortened and wheels are from RTI.
Some of you may remember this. A Mercedes 407 van from the Corgi School bus. Ive carried the unmolested one around for a while now from when I did a short stint on demos on modelling road vehicles. A picture of one of these in the form of a low sided light lorry appeared on Western Thunder so I decided to do something with it
The Body is from the previously mentioned Langley kit mated to a Base Toys chassis and more RTI wheels. I need a spot of work with a sheet of sandpaper on a flat surface to get it to sit properly. This will be a reasonably old vehicle on New Street.
Next up over to Norfolk and a couple of Lorries for North Elmham. Tim provided a few images of vehicles that could be found lurking around the dairy so I set to work. The first is an Albion something or other (I don't know - I just copied what I saw) using a modified Base Toys cab with a scratchbuilt dropside body. The transfers are home brewed on decal paper.
A Bedford S type from an RTI cab and wheels again with a scratchbuild body. I'll leave the many milk churns these 2 will need up to Tim and John.
Jim smith-wright
Western Thunderer
A bit of re-jigging of the shed means I have been able to put all of the scenic boards for Brettell Road up together. Its 5 months since the Cradley show - Time flies doesn't it?
Theres a few things to fix after the show. A couple of the points needed a check over as they weren't totally reliable. I also found 2 dead sections that hadn't shown up during the show so I fixed those too.
The lights on the upper floor of this building failed before the show but after the building had been planted onto the layout. It was too close to the show to fix it before so this is something to look at now I have time. I also want to add a few yard lights and sort out the telegraph poles on the layout because as they stand now they don't make a huge amount of sense.
The other thing to fix was the route setting on the main lines. Signalling purists are advised to look away now! Before the track and signals were all operated separately via the throttles with only the yard set up as a route. (My Digitrax system allows me to program routes into it.) So thats been changed for operator convenience so that throwing a signal sets the route as well. I know the route should be set then the signal pulled rather than this way round. You can set the signals to danger on their own but in case you forget the routes will set all the other signals to danger for you anyway. I hoping this will be pretty simple to use.
Since the show I have a small stockpile of new rolling stock to be tested. The rule is all stock must go everywhere without falling off, even though in this image only the middle road of wagons will go into the yard at shows. Of this little lot only 4 wagons were rejected and returned to 'works' for some fettling. These 4 have now been passed too.
Below, just some more traditional layout style pictures.
Jim smith-wright
Western Thunderer
Shouldn't that be ill get me coot?
Osgood
Western Thunderer
Strictly OT, but:The thing is I cums from Kiddy and talks proper
As an extra bit of info. When the Kidderminster factory of RTB closed in 1960 I was transferred to Brierley Hill, a translator/interpreter would have been useful for the first couple of months.
I once bought an old portable screening unit, a Parker Loadascreen (think early non-hydraulic type of Powerscreen unit) lying at the disused and mostly cleared Brierley Hill site.
I went up to prepare it for movement by road (by a tractor unit) only to find that it was not only stuck in the raised working position, but the legs had been welded in that position so could not be lowered for transport.
A couple of men working on site clearance came over to see what I was up to, and although communication was not that easy (an accent and vocabulary unknown to me at that time) they could see what needed to be done and one went off to find some gas cutting gear while the other stayed to help - he told me we were in the former steel stacking area where they both used to work.
His mate soon came back with the gear and set to work cutting the welds off the telescopic legs.
I said I needed a decent crowbar so I could work at freeing the lowering mechanism - at which point he simply scuffed his boots in the dirt until he hit something solid and pulled out a buried heavy crowbar fashioned from hex bar. A few moments later he'd located another and we both set to work.
Turns out they were buried all over the stacking site!
I still have one bar to this day as a working souvenir of those great blokes.
Jim smith-wright
Western Thunderer
A while ago I did a batch of shock opens including an attempt at an ex-LMS diagram 1983 variant. Justin of Rumney Models noticed that I had used the same ends as the BR version with inset corrugations while the LMS wagon has corrugations that stick out. Something I had completely failed to notice myself. So that wagon had its top lip removed and renumbered back to a BR one. A new kit was brought (well a few actually - saves on postage!) and a second attempt made using cut down spare ends from a Parkside 12t van kit. The BR version is at the back. Theres a few other differences too like the bang plates for the doors, the shape of the panelling on the ends and the braces under the door.
The finished wagon in the company of yet another D2150 13t open.
The BR wagon has had a Rumney models sheet rail added and been mated with a clasp brake chassis to produce a D1/040 variant. Buffers are from Lanarkshire Models.
Moving on to a couple of hoppers.
First up the Accurascale 24.5t hopper which i picked up cheaply from a private sale on Western Thunder. It came in brown livery and with a certificate saying it was a limited edition number 061 of 500. If this sort of thing matters to you and you have one you will be pleased to know that your model is now even more limited being 1 of 499 (You're welcome!). It was separated into its component parts (a process that had already started in the box) and the body resprayed. These are not a straight drop in wheels job as the axles used are a little short and theres a boss on the back of the W-iron, much like Lima was doing 40+ years ago. Its not a huge problem though as a few turns of a bearing cutter (I use Ed's tool) and a little bit of thinning the boss down and off you go. I also cut off the NM pockets.
What is a little bit more of an issue is it doesn't weigh anything, just 21 grammes out of the box. Obviously if you plan to run your wagons loaded no problem but if you want them empty (as did ) then a little bit of trickery is required.
My solution was to make new lower sides from 1mm lead. This brings the wagon up to 50 grammes. If you would like to follow suit I drew up a little cutting template which you can download from here https://p4newstreet.com/wp-content/uploads/accurascale-24.5t-hopper-weight-drawing.pdf
Another parkside 21 tonner based on a picture that came up on my facebook feed. (some of the wagons in the post are waiting a delivery of couplings you may notice). Theres often a discussion when these kits crop up that they are difficult to build but they really aren't. The trick is to assemble a side and end as 2 pairs on a piece of glass with a cutting matt to ensure they are square, let these set fully before assembling the rest of the wagon and theres no problems Any slight gaps between the panels can be filled from the inside using Mr Surfacer 1000 liquid filler.
Now a few oddballs - this is an ex L&Y diagram 81 loco coal wagon from the old MAJ models kit. The kit is supplied with a wooden chassis which is correct for the earlier wagons but i wanted the later one so only used the body. The brake gear on these were a little weird to say the least
The plan is to have a short train of condemned wagons that is delivered to the yard as a trip working from Bescot. These are then to be collected by one of the Round Oak locos to be taken away for scrapping and the metal bits melted down in the furnaces. This is basically what happened and quite a few locos met their fate this way in real life. Unlike some of the more famous railway scrap yards stuff didn't hand around for long so nothing from my scrap train will have any hope of reprieve sadly. The condemned markings are from Railtec,
Another victim this time a GWR diagram 04 open from the cooper craft kit. Like another Coopercraft kit I've built this has the bearing holes mounted too low meaning that the wagon looked like it was on stilts. This one has slightly odd brake gear as well. You can just make out the old GW branding.
The LMS traction truck has finally been mated with its load.
Also based on a picture that cropped upon my facebook feed is this Borail from the Cambrian kit. Making the load was far from the most interesting task I've ever done I can tell you and despite it being essentially hollow this wagon still hovered up 5 meters of rail!
Jim smith-wright
Western Thunderer
Sorry Brian - I seem to have missed your question.
The backscenes were illustrated using a combination of Illustrator and Photoshop. See here for more info.
Overseer
Western Thunderer
Having the corrugations protruding seems to make more sense than the BR way. How did the internal timber lining fit on the BR wagons? Was the timber carved to fit the corrugations or was the internal length reduced? Partly answering my questions, I just checked in LMS Wagons Vol 1 and there is a photo of the prototype shock open (D1979) number 450000 with the inward pressed ends the same as the LMS D2110/D2150 opens and the caption states that "when built it did not have lined ends". So there was a prototype for your model, but only one.
The difference in the corrugations was something I'd never picked up on and means my old Parkside conversion is wrong. Interestingly, the old K's kit got the ends correct!
LMS Wagons does show the internal dimensions from the diagram book as 16'6" on the prototype vs 16'3 3/4" on the two other diagrams.
LMS Wagons does show the internal dimensions from the diagram book as 16'6" on the prototype vs 16'3 3/4" on the two other diagrams.
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AJC
Western Thunderer
Excellent stuff, Jim - and thank you for the cutting template for the 24 1/2 tonner, I have one of these suffering the same issue (and a pair of etched ones to go with it at some point which won't...).
As regards the shock high, it's extremely hard to spot the corrugation difference unless you're looking for it: LMS & MR open merchandise - 5 & 1 plank OWV ZGO ZGV | 090319_ex_M450064_LMS_Shock_open__m_ - I'd never spotted it, but it doesn't surprise me that Justin did.
Adam
As regards the shock high, it's extremely hard to spot the corrugation difference unless you're looking for it: LMS & MR open merchandise - 5 & 1 plank OWV ZGO ZGV | 090319_ex_M450064_LMS_Shock_open__m_ - I'd never spotted it, but it doesn't surprise me that Justin did.
Adam
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Jim smith-wright
Western Thunderer
Ive recently been doing a few revisions on the layout.
The first was prompted by a failure. It had always irked me a little that the above lamp was a little bit crude and the top wasn't really the distinctive shape the lights at Round Oak had. Being at the back in a dark corner it wasn't noticeable enough to invest any time into. However when it recently failed why not kill two birds with one stone?
So after a bit of tweaking I'm much happier with it now.
Ground Signals. I originally used the MSE kits but I had found a few drawbacks. First thing was A few had took some knocks while cleaning the track. As they use a whitemetal casting for the main body and legs they really didn't like this at all and were starting to look a bit bent and battered. Secondly as I had fitted lights there wasn't a lot of room to work and I had just drilled out the lamp housing and shoved a nano LED in there with slightly mixed results.
One consequence of this was more light bled out of the bottom than through the signal despite various attempts to fill the hole
So step in the Palatine models etched kits as a replacement Palatine Models 4mm Products . These are hopefully stronger and being an etch theres more room to position the LED in a better controlled way. I say more room but in 4mm scale ground signals are tiny but because of that even a slight gain is a big help. I modified the kits a little to make them work and drilled a couple of holes for the lights. Results are below
On the subject of signals Ive been playing around with resistors again to try to get the lamps a bit closer to how the real thing looked and less like a modern colour light. I think I'm there now.
Up on the road Ive added a few telegraph poles meaning I think I can call this area finished now.
A revisit to my classic (or is that cliché?) scene. This time a wider version.
The first was prompted by a failure. It had always irked me a little that the above lamp was a little bit crude and the top wasn't really the distinctive shape the lights at Round Oak had. Being at the back in a dark corner it wasn't noticeable enough to invest any time into. However when it recently failed why not kill two birds with one stone?
So after a bit of tweaking I'm much happier with it now.
Ground Signals. I originally used the MSE kits but I had found a few drawbacks. First thing was A few had took some knocks while cleaning the track. As they use a whitemetal casting for the main body and legs they really didn't like this at all and were starting to look a bit bent and battered. Secondly as I had fitted lights there wasn't a lot of room to work and I had just drilled out the lamp housing and shoved a nano LED in there with slightly mixed results.
One consequence of this was more light bled out of the bottom than through the signal despite various attempts to fill the hole
So step in the Palatine models etched kits as a replacement Palatine Models 4mm Products . These are hopefully stronger and being an etch theres more room to position the LED in a better controlled way. I say more room but in 4mm scale ground signals are tiny but because of that even a slight gain is a big help. I modified the kits a little to make them work and drilled a couple of holes for the lights. Results are below
On the subject of signals Ive been playing around with resistors again to try to get the lamps a bit closer to how the real thing looked and less like a modern colour light. I think I'm there now.
Up on the road Ive added a few telegraph poles meaning I think I can call this area finished now.
A revisit to my classic (or is that cliché?) scene. This time a wider version.
Lancastrian
Western Thunderer
Excellent scenes Jim, very atmospheric.