Prototype Tim Mills' Photos

[oldravendale]

4472 Flying Scotsman at Paddington on an unknown date. Another loco which has appeared many times previously so details will not be repeated. I have no details regarding the train which, if available, would give us the date.











Merchant Navy 35008 Orient Line first at an unknown location and date and then two at Waterloo probably on the Bournemouth Belle in March 1965. We saw this loco previously in post #5600 on Page 280 although I initially identified that photo as 35028. Orient Line was rebuilt in May 1957. It was allocated to Bournemouth in January/February 1960, Weymouth Radipole in September/October 1966 and finally Nine Elms in March/April 1967 where it was withdrawn at the end of Southern steam in July 1967. (SLS). In fact I have a photo of the loco inside the shed and in steam taken by a friend at Nine Elms when we visited on the last day. The loco went to Buttigieg’s, Newport where it was scrapped in September or October 1968 (RO) and BR Database also propose September 1968.







Brian

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

Merchant Navy 35008 Orient Line first at an unknown location and date and then two at Waterloo probably on the Bournemouth Belle in March 1965. We saw this loco previously in post #5600 on Page 280 although I initially identified that photo as 35028. Orient Line was rebuilt in May 1957. It was allocated to Bournemouth in January/February 1960, Weymouth Radipole in September/October 1966 and finally Nine Elms in March/April 1967 where it was withdrawn at the end of Southern steam in July 1967. (SLS). In fact I have a photo of the loco inside the shed and in steam taken by a friend at Nine Elms when we visited on the last day. The loco went to Buttigieg’s, Newport where it was scrapped in September or October 1968 (RO) and BR Database also propose September 1968.

Byfleet and New Haw. Up Southampton Special Boat or Bournemouth West train to Waterloo. I would say a boat train as the sixth coach appears to be a Pullman car and there is a cantrail destination board on the leading coach above the compartment window.

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

4472 Flying Scotsman at Paddington on an unknown date. Another loco which has appeared many times previously so details will not be repeated. I have no details regarding the train which, if available, would give us the date.

Could be:
Welsh Mystery Flyer 09/10/1965 The Railtour Files - unlikely as this carried a circular headboard.
Anglo Norse Society 09/05/1965 The Railtour Files - looks more likely as this did not carry a headboard and the spectators/spotters do not appear to be wearing autumn/winter attire.

There's also a Hymek in the background of the third photo.

 

[daifly]

I don't think it was on the Welsh Mystery Flyer. In addition to the lack of headboard, the leading coach W9222 has been turned around! Here's a photo of the loco at Swindon on the WMF about to be removed having failed. The leading coach orientation is clearly not as in Tim's photo.

https://flic.kr/p/aDiDVD

Dave

 

[daifly]

4472 was also seen on the Panda Pullman (Paddington - Cardiff & rr) in November but, again, with a huge headboard.

https://www.sixbellsjunction.co.uk/photos/651113_01.jpg

My money is on the London Spring Tour (name not listed on Six Bells) on 9th May 1965. This photo taken on that day shows the correct form of leading coach and also the smokebox dart at the same 5 minutes to 6 configuration. Not definitive perhaps but maybe diagnostic.

https://flic.kr/p/8WEuEN

Dave

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

My money is on the London Spring Tour (name not listed on Six Bells) on 9th May 1965. This photo taken on that day shows the correct form of leading coach and also the smokebox dart at the same 5 minutes to 6 configuration. Not definitive perhaps but maybe diagnostic.

This could be the one named on Six Bells as Anglo Norse Society on the same date.

 

[oldravendale]

Thank you Dave @daifly and Dave @Yorkshire Dave for considering some options regarding the train hauled by Flying Scotsman. Tim took some photos of the loco at Southall on the Welsh Mystery Flyer which are yet to appear on here but I think we can be certain that is not the train at Paddington. I'm definitely going for the Anglo Norse Society train as the prime option.

At an unknown date this is Merchant Navy 35023 Holland-Afrika Line at West Weybridge. The loco was allocated to Bournemouth in February 1960, moved to Weymouth Radipole in September/October 1966 and finally Nine Elms where it was withdrawn at the end of Southern steam in July 1967. (SLS). It went to Buttigieg’s, Newport and was reported there on 10th April 1968. (RO). BR Database suggests it was scrapped that month.



Rebuilt West Country 34042 Dorchester at an unknown location and date. The loco was rebuilt in January 1959 when at Bournemouth Shed. It moved to Eastleigh in August/September 1964 and was withdrawn in October 1965 (SLS) going to Buttigieg’s, Newport, where it was seen being cut up on 23rd September 1966 (RO) although BR Database proposes a scrapping date of April 1966.



Brian

 

[46240]

Good evening Brian,

Interesting to see in last night's photo of 4472 that there is a ding/dint/dent in the boiler cladding of Scotsman just above the nameplate.

Flying ballast or a careless traincrew member?
Anybody replicating that on a model would be called out.

Cheers, Nigel.

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

At an unknown date this is Merchant Navy 35023 Holland-Afrika Line at West Weybridge. The loco was allocated to Bournemouth in February 1960, moved to Weymouth Radipole in September/October 1966 and finally Nine Elms where it was withdrawn at the end of Southern steam in July 1967. (SLS). It went to Buttigieg’s, Newport and was reported there on 10th April 1968. (RO). BR Database suggests it was scrapped that month.

It's Weybridge Junction immediately west of Weybridge. The signal box is in the middle ground on the right and the station footbridge is beyond in the background. The lines on the far left behind the 20 mph sign head towards Chertsey and Virginia Water to form part of the Staines Loop.

Rebuilt West Country 34042 Dorchester at an unknown location and date. The loco was rebuilt in January 1959 when at Bournemouth Shed. It moved to Eastleigh in August/September 1964 and was withdrawn in October 1965 (SLS) going to Buttigieg’s, Newport, where it was seen being cut up on 23rd September 1966 (RO) although BR Database proposes a scrapping date of April 1966.

This is just a bit further down the line between Weybridge and Byfleet & New Ham (near the 19½ milepost). Seven Arches Bridge is behind the photographer and Brooklands circuit Railway Straight to Hill Turn corner is to the right behind the trees.

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

The red stars on this NLS 1:1,250/1:2,500 OS extract show the photographic locations of those taken in the Weybridge area.

 

[oldravendale]

Yes, I'd noticed the dent in the boiler cladding. Nigel @46240 . I guess we'll never know the cause but on a model it would be the cause of negative comment for sure.

Dave @Yorkshire Dave. How do you get to these locations? Remarkable to my eyes. However, I'm grateful as ever for your advice about the locations. I wish we could do the same for the dates although the loco histories help to narrow the dates down to within a few years and many are identified anyway as "in the 1960s".

For today a single photo from Tim with two of mine but quite a lot of commentary:

Grange Class 4-6-0 6859 Yiewsley Grange at Southall Shed carrying an 86E Severn Tunnel Junction Shed Plate. It was allocated there from July/August 1965 and withdrawn on 18th November 1965. (SLS). The loco is not in steam but appears in quite good condition for the time and is on an “active” road in the shed but the wheel treads are decidedly rusty and I suspect it was withdrawn although the rails are clean and shiny. Things were so chaotic at the time that it’s quite possible that a withdrawn loco would be on an otherwise active shed line. I photographed it in exactly the same position myself on 5th December 1965 alongside a DMU and the rust on the wheel treads is even more prominent and the track is starting to show a little rust so I’d date Tim’s photo to some time soon after the withdrawal date and mine a little later. Mine are dated 5th December 1965. My own photos are included here as a comparison and also include a cab photo – the cab appears to be in remarkably good order.

This was another loco to go to Buttigieg’s in Newport for disposal (WHTS) and it was seen on 21st February 1966 in Dock Street Goods Yard, Newport, awaiting entry to the scrap yard. (RO). WHTS report the loco stored at Southall from November 1965 to January 1966 and BR Database proposes a scrapping date of February the same year.







Brian

 

[Barry37]

Good evening Brian,

Interesting to see in last night's photo of 4472 that there is a ding/dint/dent in the boiler cladding of Scotsman just above the nameplate.

Flying ballast or a careless traincrew member?
Anybody replicating that on a model would be called out.

Cheers, Nigel.

The Bulleid Q1 at the National Railway Museum looks like someone attacked the cladding with blunt instruments.

 

[hrmspaul]

The Bulleid Q1 at the National Railway Museum looks like someone attacked the cladding with blunt instruments.

As SR Q1 0-6-0 locomotive | 33001 as C1 Bulleid Q1 0-6-0 @ York NRM Railfest 2004-05-30 © Paul Bartlett [01w]

Paul

SR Q1 0-6-0 locomotive

The Southern Railway built 40 of these uncompromising 0-6-0 locomotives designed under Bulleid during WW2. The most powerful 0-6-0 in the UK, and as useful on passenger trains as freight. My personal favourite, as they worked the pick-up goods at Staines when I was young, unfortunately they had...

paulbartlett.zenfolio.com

 

[oldravendale]

Thanks for yours about the Q1, Barry @Barry37 and Paul @hrmspaul . I was very fond of the Q1s and built one of the MOK version a few years ago.

Rebuilt in October 1960 is West Country 34040 Crewkerne, at home at Bournemouth Shed from May/June 1956 until withdrawn at the end of Southern steam in July 1967. (SLS). It then went to Cashmore’s, Newport, where it was scrapped in March 1968. (BR Database).
The first and second photos (img429 & 510) have no information regarding either location or date although it looks as though I may have repeated the scan! I should spend a bit of time correcting the colour balance on the second version. But the third (img 570) is described as being at Berrylands in the 1960s.

This loco brings a poignant memory to mind of being on New Milton Station platform with my younger cousin as the loco passed through and him remarking on the strange name… Crewnerk. Reminisences of The Goons!







Class J27 0-6-0 65893 carrying a 52F South Blyth shed plate next to 8F 48257 in Darlington Works in March 1965. (For the avoidance of doubt I identified the 8F by checking the slide with a magnifier as the scanner masking clips the edges of the frame). The J27 had been allocated to South Blyth since June/July 1959 and was withdrawn in July 1966 (SLS) going to Hughes Bolckow, North Blyth (Yeadons volume 47b) where it was received on 26th September 1966 from South Blyth shed re official documentation of the time. (WHTS).

The 8F started life as WD 70395 (BR Database) and came to BR in September 1949. In the ‘60s it was at Birkenhead Mollington Street from January/February 1961 then moving to Rose Grove in June/July 1965 where it was withdrawn in June/July 1968. (SLS). It was cut up at Buttigieg’s, Newport and left Rose Grove on 8th December 1968. (RO). According to BR Database it was scrapped in October 1968 but that seems unlikely.



Brian

 

[Mike Walker]

The station in the first two images has a GWR look about particularly the canopies but the paint scheme and lamp posts are pure SR. In addition the 44/11 MP is pure GWR and it looks as there is a GWR pattern signal at the far end of the platform.

 

[Dave Holt]

Somewhere between Basingstoke and Reading, perhaps? The stock looks all maroon, so could be an inter-regional, like the re-routed Pines Express?
Dave.

 

[Dan Randall]

The station in the first two images has a GWR look about particularly the canopies but the paint scheme and lamp posts are pure SR. In addition the 44/11 MP is pure GWR and it looks as there is a GWR pattern signal at the far end of the platform.

Looks like Bramley to me, on the line between Reading (Southcote Junction) and Basingstoke.

Here’s a 1960’s view from the Francis Frith collection….

Bramley, the Station c1960

Photo of Bramley, the Station c1960, from The Francis Frith Collection

www.francisfrith.com

Regards

Dan

 

[Dog Star]

Somewhere between Basingstoke and Reading, perhaps?

Looks like Bramley to me, on the line between Reading (Southcote Junction) and Basingstoke.

I agree with both of these posts.

 

[daifly]

I reckon Dan's right! An earlier view.

Dave

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

Rebuilt in October 1960 is West Country 34040 Crewkerne, at home at Bournemouth Shed from May/June 1956 until withdrawn at the end of Southern steam in July 1967. (SLS). It then went to Cashmore’s, Newport, where it was scrapped in March 1968. (BR Database).
The first and second photos (img429 & 510) have no information regarding either location or date although it looks as though I may have repeated the scan! I should spend a bit of time correcting the colour balance on the second version. But the third (img 570) is described as being at Berrylands in the 1960s.

This loco brings a poignant memory to mind of being on New Milton Station platform with my younger cousin as the loco passed through and him remarking on the strange name… Crewnerk. Reminisences of The Goons!

As others have confirmed this is Bramley on the Basingstoke - Reading line. The headcode is Bournemouth West to Oxford and the train is heading north towards Reading West and Reading West Junction.

The third one is indeed Berrylands. Headcode is either for Waterloo - Basingstoke or Waterloo - Southampton Docks via Millbrook.