OzzyO
Western Thunderer
Gavin,
It maybe worth having a look at this thread.
ATB
OzzyO.
7mm OzzyO is back building a Dave Parkins' kit (and some JLTRT Coaches as well). Now on to some MMP 16ton wagon kits.
- Thread starter OzzyO
- Start date
Gavin,
It maybe worth having a look at this thread.
ATB
OzzyO.
simond
Western Thunderer
Thread starts here, I think.
but I can’t find the bit about whitemetal, though I recall a discussion…
UltraSonic Cleaners & grit blasters.
And you can use the cleaner mix over and over again, I'll post photos of the US cleaner if anyone is interested. I'm interested, even if no one else is. I've been considering a purchase but quoted capacities don't seem to match the tank(cage) sizes - presumably the maximum fill line is some...
www.westernthunder.co.uk
but I can’t find the bit about whitemetal, though I recall a discussion…
OzzyO
Western Thunderer
Hello all,
I do seem to remember something about W/M and ultrasonic cleaners but I don't know where it was.
What Gavin mentions sounds like cavitation this can be caused by a number of factors.
1] the metal is not up to spec..
2] too long in the cleaner.
3] wrong mix of cleaning fluid.
4] a mix of any of the above.
The sludge that Gavin mentions will be a mix of W/M and crud.
ATB
OzzyO.
I do seem to remember something about W/M and ultrasonic cleaners but I don't know where it was.
What Gavin mentions sounds like cavitation this can be caused by a number of factors.
1] the metal is not up to spec..
2] too long in the cleaner.
3] wrong mix of cleaning fluid.
4] a mix of any of the above.
The sludge that Gavin mentions will be a mix of W/M and crud.
ATB
OzzyO.
Martin Shaw
Western Thunderer
It may well have been me, I'll see if I can remember where.
Martin
Martin
Martin Shaw
Western Thunderer
It's from a wide roving thread of just over two years ago, this was the specific message that showed the dangers of over generous use of ultrasonics. I was able to rescue things with new castings and resoldering the partly failed joints. The arrived at concensus was go easy with things.Thank you Simon for the info, I'll have a look at that in the future. And now for a disaster, as I said upthread the N15 has had a go in the ultrasonic cleaner with good effect on the brass, however with a view to putting a coat of primer on to show all the flaws, it has also highlighted the effects of cavitational erosion on whitemetal. I had a look online where it is apparently a known effect especially it seems with crankshafts rotating in whitemetal shell bearings and lubricating oils, who knew. Well I do now and I did it on purpose, silly boy.
My first thought is that some filler might work, there are other spots that need filling/cleaning and it does mean that majoy surgery could be avoided. The other way is replacement castings which are all available, however most of them are epoxied on and removing them without damage to the platework or unsoldering with the application of heat is fraught. I think a curse on the gods and a ponder is in order.
I hope your Sunday is better than mine.
Martin
Martin
Gavin Eyre
Member
I too believe it is cavitation. It's on a Finney 7 Duchess tender on the exhaust steam manifold of the coal pusher. I'm also probably guilty of over generous use as I gave it 30 minutes at 60 degrees. I was using a specially formulated ultrasonic cleaner that I bought from Amazon - Octopus. It contains surfactants, polycarboxylate, bronopol, methylisothiazoline and benzisothiazoline - whatever those all are. I would be interested to know what others are using in their machines and what are the recommended exposure times.
As to the manifold, I de-soldered it and after a few passes on some emery paper it came back to normal.
Thanks
Gavin
As to the manifold, I de-soldered it and after a few passes on some emery paper it came back to normal.
Thanks
Gavin
simond
Western Thunderer
The principle of operation of an ultrasonic cleaner is cavitation, which is used to dislodge the soiling from the surfaces being cleaned. As usual, Wikipedia give a good background.
en.wikipedia.org
I suspect the issue with soft metals such as whitemetal is somehow different, and I wonder if the metal is porous, or at least that there are grain boundaries into which the liquid and energy can penetrate, as the cavitation is actually displacing the metal itself.
This porosity could perhaps occur if the castings were not filled under sufficient pressure (either centrifugal or gravity) or the metal chilled too soon - or perhaps it’s just to be expected with whitemetal.
That said, Aluminium foil is also easily damaged by ultrasonic cleaners, and I would expect that the manufacturing process (rolling) would prevent or eliminate any porosity, not that I’d expect any before rolling. So perhaps there’s something else going on.
I guess the message with whitemetal is “go gently”.
Ultrasonic cleaning - Wikipedia
I suspect the issue with soft metals such as whitemetal is somehow different, and I wonder if the metal is porous, or at least that there are grain boundaries into which the liquid and energy can penetrate, as the cavitation is actually displacing the metal itself.
This porosity could perhaps occur if the castings were not filled under sufficient pressure (either centrifugal or gravity) or the metal chilled too soon - or perhaps it’s just to be expected with whitemetal.
That said, Aluminium foil is also easily damaged by ultrasonic cleaners, and I would expect that the manufacturing process (rolling) would prevent or eliminate any porosity, not that I’d expect any before rolling. So perhaps there’s something else going on.
I guess the message with whitemetal is “go gently”.
OzzyO
Western Thunderer
Simond,
a very good point next time I'm up town I shall get a "tin" of drink to see how this will work. I have an idea about how to see how this will work.
ATB
OzzyO.
OzzyO
Western Thunderer
Hello all,
some progress has been made on the (JLTRT) BG but I'm thinking of changing it to one of these. If Ian agrees!
Back onto the build. The modified guards steps and the footboards in place.
A closeup showing how I've mounted the footboards and a closeup showing the guards step.
A photo showing the floor pan, you can make out the dynamo belt and the fitting for the brake pull rods.
I did have a bit of a problem when I test fitted the bogies in that they could catch the floor pan cut-out corners so out with the burrs and off came the corners.
If Ian lets me go ahead with the conversion to the NCV with the welded up doors and the handbrake wheel on the out side, now for a couple of questions.
1] does anyone make a six spoke handwheel?
2] did they have the handwheel on both sides (I think that they would).
3] the numbers of the vehicles that had the doors welded up? As not all NCVs had the doors welded up and the guards compartment removed.
ATB
OzzyO.
PS. this is not a David Parkins kit, it's a JLTRT one.
some progress has been made on the (JLTRT) BG but I'm thinking of changing it to one of these. If Ian agrees!
Back onto the build. The modified guards steps and the footboards in place.
A closeup showing how I've mounted the footboards and a closeup showing the guards step.
A photo showing the floor pan, you can make out the dynamo belt and the fitting for the brake pull rods.
I did have a bit of a problem when I test fitted the bogies in that they could catch the floor pan cut-out corners so out with the burrs and off came the corners.
If Ian lets me go ahead with the conversion to the NCV with the welded up doors and the handbrake wheel on the out side, now for a couple of questions.
1] does anyone make a six spoke handwheel?
2] did they have the handwheel on both sides (I think that they would).
3] the numbers of the vehicles that had the doors welded up? As not all NCVs had the doors welded up and the guards compartment removed.
ATB
OzzyO.
PS. this is not a David Parkins kit, it's a JLTRT one.
Last edited:
Perhaps you could make it clear that you are not actually currently building an DavID Parkins MMP BG kit in this thread. It might lead folks to confusion.
OzzyO
Western Thunderer
Hello all,
the bogies for Ian's JLTRT BG are about completed, apart from a clean and some paint along with the working springs.
So I thought that it would be nice to to do a photo compare of the JLTRT bogies and the D.J.P. bogies.
If I got the photos correct the D.J.P. bogies are always on the left.
Top view, the JLTRT needed to have a bush made with a collar to get the ride height correct on one of there own coaches? I still have to check the ride height of the JLTRT POS that the D.J.P. bogies are going under.
From the side.
From underneath.
From the end.
Both bogies have there pluses and minuses, JLTRT +speed of build, - Lack of detail. D.J.P. + The amount of detail , fit of parts. - Fitting the brake blocks onto the hangers.
The wheels are Slater's fully turned steel wheels (7138) in use on both bogies.
ATB
OzzyO.
the bogies for Ian's JLTRT BG are about completed, apart from a clean and some paint along with the working springs.
So I thought that it would be nice to to do a photo compare of the JLTRT bogies and the D.J.P. bogies.
If I got the photos correct the D.J.P. bogies are always on the left.
Top view, the JLTRT needed to have a bush made with a collar to get the ride height correct on one of there own coaches? I still have to check the ride height of the JLTRT POS that the D.J.P. bogies are going under.
From the side.
From underneath.
From the end.
Both bogies have there pluses and minuses, JLTRT +speed of build, - Lack of detail. D.J.P. + The amount of detail , fit of parts. - Fitting the brake blocks onto the hangers.
The wheels are Slater's fully turned steel wheels (7138) in use on both bogies.
ATB
OzzyO.
daifly
Western Thunderer
adrian
Flying Squad
It's a bit of a double edged sword!! He certainly packs in the etches extremely efficiently - as you say they are a work of art - on the downside there very little scrap etching left for other projects. Whenever I need a strip of brass or n/s of a small width I often look in my scrap etch box and there is something suitable. Very little of DJP's etchings end up in the scrap etch box!
OzzyO
Western Thunderer
Hello all,
I've been getting a bit done on the JLTRT BG most days, the floor pan is painted. While the paint was going off I decided to start cleaning the ends up (why such a big lump of resin under the ends?). First one cut off just one to go.
Getting close to the end of the cut then snap and this bit came off I said "o dear me". So I cut it off the big bit of resin and left a bit to clean up.
Then it was refitting it in place, as the break was nice and clean and had not been played with I got a very nice fit.
Just the bottom edges to clean up and it could be time to start on the body work.
ATB
OzzyO.
I've been getting a bit done on the JLTRT BG most days, the floor pan is painted. While the paint was going off I decided to start cleaning the ends up (why such a big lump of resin under the ends?). First one cut off just one to go.
Getting close to the end of the cut then snap and this bit came off I said "o dear me". So I cut it off the big bit of resin and left a bit to clean up.
Then it was refitting it in place, as the break was nice and clean and had not been played with I got a very nice fit.
Just the bottom edges to clean up and it could be time to start on the body work.
ATB
OzzyO.
OzzyO
Western Thunderer
Hello all,
a test fit on the buffer beam for the Slater's dummy buckeye coupling that I'll be fitting to this coach. It looks pretty good.
Now to throw some paint on the thing.
Trying to get a good photo of a black underframe and see any detail is a bit on the hard side.
ATB
OzzyO.
a test fit on the buffer beam for the Slater's dummy buckeye coupling that I'll be fitting to this coach. It looks pretty good.
Now to throw some paint on the thing.
Trying to get a good photo of a black underframe and see any detail is a bit on the hard side.
ATB
OzzyO.
Attachments
OzzyO
Western Thunderer
Hello all,
I decided it was time for a new controller as my old one is only kicking out about 6v with the wind behind it. So I had a look on flea bay and Hamazon the latter had what I wanted a Gauge master GMC100MO and at a good price. So the money was sent off and the next day I had a packet. Nice. On opening the packet this is what I saw so I said Oh flip.
So I thought that Gauge Master could just be using an old box, but the controller said model 100M I said Oh flip. I reported it to Hamazon and got all the gear packed up ready to go. The new controller turned up the next day, looking just the same so back on to them, this time they wanted to give me my money back. Now you can't drive trains using money.
So I had a look on Flea bay and there was one for sale with some photos and one of them showed something like this.
So the package was opened up and yes it was on the back of the controller. So I had a better look at the box and seen this. It's about 38mm long with approx. 1.5mm high letters.
A close up showing the wording, so the two labels that tell you that it's a GMC 100MO one is so small that you miss the writing and the other one you would normally only see when you came to wire it up. Why not have something on the front of the box and on the front of the controller?
All the best,
OzzyO.
I decided it was time for a new controller as my old one is only kicking out about 6v with the wind behind it. So I had a look on flea bay and Hamazon the latter had what I wanted a Gauge master GMC100MO and at a good price. So the money was sent off and the next day I had a packet. Nice. On opening the packet this is what I saw so I said Oh flip.
So I thought that Gauge Master could just be using an old box, but the controller said model 100M I said Oh flip. I reported it to Hamazon and got all the gear packed up ready to go. The new controller turned up the next day, looking just the same so back on to them, this time they wanted to give me my money back. Now you can't drive trains using money.
So I had a look on Flea bay and there was one for sale with some photos and one of them showed something like this.
So the package was opened up and yes it was on the back of the controller. So I had a better look at the box and seen this. It's about 38mm long with approx. 1.5mm high letters.
A close up showing the wording, so the two labels that tell you that it's a GMC 100MO one is so small that you miss the writing and the other one you would normally only see when you came to wire it up. Why not have something on the front of the box and on the front of the controller?
All the best,
OzzyO.
Bill Campbell
Western Thunderer
The label on my version is slightly different - instead of this:
The first line of text on mine states: "Output 0-14Vdc @ 50VA max"
With mains powered electrical equipment there is a real need for accurate labelling.
Regards.
The first line of text on mine states: "Output 0-14Vdc @ 50VA max"
With mains powered electrical equipment there is a real need for accurate labelling.
Regards.