7mm Yorky D's LT - Wagonery tales from the Met.

[Yorkshire Dave]

Brian, Tring Garage was on Western Road towards Aylesbury - judging by google street view it would be difficult to locate.

Here are two of my unprocessed photos of the garage in the late 70s and a modern Google view. The site was occupied by Associated Dairies after the garage closed and is now what looks like a shopping centre. The building on the left is the only identifying feature remaining apart from what looks like the original concrete apron somewhat narrowed. The last three photos are from the LT Museum collection - two of Tring and one of Two Waters (HH).








Two Waters

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

Tring Garage - Here's a aerial view of the site now occupied by a gym and the post office. Appears there is new housing where the administration building once stood.


And of course Two Waters was destroyed for a by-pass (well link road to the) - where have we heard that one before... .

 

[oldravendale]

Great stuff, Dave. Thank you.

I drove past the site of Tring Garage this morning. I'd no idea that there had been a garage there, and there is no sign either, although the footprint makes sense. Later I drove over what would have been Two Waters Garage on the way to a tile centre in Hemel.

It just goes to show how important it is that we maintain records of what is so commonplace today.

Brian

 

[Peter Insole]

We had one of those great big Bakelite things in the hall at the bottom of the stairs...

Ah how well I remember it:

Tring - tring, it used to go all the time...!

"Will somebody answer that … thing?"

Sorry!

Here are a couple of old battered ref pics as a reminder of a happy afternoon spent at that place.

Can anyone spot anything unusual about them?



Pete.

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

The bus body has been stripped down and the castings ready for priming.

The body is held together with 7 machine screws and since Hachette Livre are a French company only they could come up with a screw head like this.......



The body is in two pieces and like 4mm EFE die cast buses I have taken apart the detail is relatively crisp once the thick paint is removed.







.......and yes I have made up a sheet from a sample of the LT moquette used in their buses from the 1940's to the 60's for printing onto a decal sheet once it has been scaled.

 

[oldravendale]

Here's a guess......

RT3095 is ostensibly a red RT at Tring (London Country Garage) and sporting an EW (Edgware) allocation stencil with Tring as the destination on the blind, although with the "Private Hire" screen up. I surmise, therefore that this, and possibly the bus behind, was one of the vehicles used for staff transport from Aldenham. It's therefore probably at Tring at a weekend, or awaiting it's run to Aldenham.

When I was at school in Harrow (not the Harrow School, the other one) we'd sometimes stay on in the evening to see the prewar RTs doing the Aldenham run.

Does that work?

Brian

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

We had one of those great big Bakelite things in the hall at the bottom of the stairs...

Ah how well I remember it:

Tring - tring, it used to go all the time...!

"Will somebody answer that … thing?"

Sorry!

We we moved to Aylesbury in the early 70's we had one of these, again in the hall at the bottom of the stairs, and there was a tray in the base which contained a list of phone numbers.

Here are a couple of old battered ref pics as a reminder of a happy afternoon spent at that place.

Can anyone spot anything unusual about them?

Excellent photographs Peter.

They are Red Buses - as Brian says possibly for the Aldenham Works run.

This is one I photographed in the Tring Road, Aylesbury in the mid 70's returning from the Aldenham run.

 

[Peter Insole]

Too easy - I should have known better!

Although, out of interest, I had scrawled in pencil on the edge of the front view print of RT 3095:

"Note - two different dumb-irons".

I cannot remember now if that was a common feature or a result of an earlier damage repair job?

Tis a funny thing, but we were talking about that super Hachette RT only yesterday at Love Lane. Rather I should admit that I was hanging my head in shame and begging forgiveness for leaving my own attempt firmly on the back burner?!

While I fear an inevitable answer, I will dare to ask what the metal is like to work with...?

I rather fancied the idea of drilling and filing out the destination indicators, then glazing them for a proper set of blinds...!

Pete.

PS.,

What was the precise shade of green for Country Area buses...?

The following pic might provide a crumb of comfort - it could be anywhere amongst the variety here...!!

 

[mickoo]

The bus body has been stripped down and the castings ready for priming.

The body is held together with 7 machine screws and since Hachette Livre are a French company only they could come up with a screw head like this.......

View attachment 93520

The body is in two pieces and like 4mm EFE die cast buses I have taken apart the detail is relatively crisp once the thick paint is removed.

View attachment 93518

View attachment 93519
View attachment 93516
View attachment 93517

.......and yes I have made up a sheet from a sample of the LT moquette used in their buses from the 1940's to the 60's for printing onto a decal sheet once it has been scaled.
View attachment 93523

I remember that seat cover, but not on buses, on Central Line and Northern 59/62 stock in the early 80's

 

[Dog Star]

It just goes to show how important it is that we maintain records of what is so commonplace today.

... as Brian says possibly for the Aldenham Works run.

Seems to me that someone needs to explain the everydayness of this discussion. I think that whilst a fair number of WTers may understand that Aldenham was a garage which employed "rolling" lines to increase throughput there are some questions which might be of interest, for example:-

* how many locations originated Aldenham runs in the morning?
* how many workers used these services?
* how many runs each day?
* when did the first DIDO run? and the last?

OK - who needs an explanation of DIDO?

Finally, I recall seeing a film about the Aldenham garage and that film suggested that the place was dedicated to the repair of Routemasters, if that was the case then where were other types of buses overhauled?

Thanks, Graham

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

While I fear an inevitable answer, I will dare to ask what the metal is like to work with...?

I rather fancied the idea of drilling and filing out the destination indicators, then glazing them for a proper set of blinds...!

I presume it's a type of zamak zinc alloy. It drills easily and the thought had crossed my mind about opening out the destination boxes with a piercing saw in order to obtain the correct appearance with the blind behind otherwise it's too obvious a decal has been applied. Though it will require a new inner frame making for the front.

What was the precise shade of green for Country Area buses...?

The following pic might provide a crumb of comfort - it could be anywhere amongst the variety here...!!

Again, another nice period photo with the Vauxhall Viva in the foreground - Harlow garage as indicated on the RT?

The official colour was Lincoln green which is on the RF in the background. The RT looks somewhat weather beaten. It's also noticeable the country area buses mudguards were not painted black unlike the central area buses.

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

Seems to me that someone needs to explain the everydayness of this discussion. I think that whilst a fair number of WTers may understand that Aldenham was a garage which employed "rolling" lines to increase throughput there are some questions which might be of interest, for example:-

* how many locations originated Aldenham runs in the morning?
* how many workers used these services?
* how many runs each day?
* when did the first DIDO run? and the last?

OK - who needs an explanation of DIDO?

Finally, I recall seeing a film about the Aldenham garage and that film suggested that the place was dedicated to the repair of Routemasters, if that was the case then where were other types of buses overhauled?

From my own observations I used to see the Aldenham run from Aylesbury twice a day - one in the morning and evening for the employees. At Aylesbury I always saw about half a dozen on the bus but it was close to the terminus.

This article based on two Aldenham employees provides an insight into the staff bus operations Aldenham

Aldenham works has a history in it's own right. It was originally constructed be the underground car sheds for the aborted new works scheme to extend the Northern Line from Edgware to Elstree. Some of the line viaduct infrastructure was built which could be seen from the A5 between Watford and Edgware. Whether it still exists I don't know.

 

[Peter Insole]

Graham, it might be true to say that the so called "postwar" RT type (3RT3 and subsequent variations) was designed specifically for Aldenham Works overhauls and that Aldenham was likewise created (after being used for wartime aircraft production) for it!

I think some of the odd few other types continued to be dealt with at Chiswick?

The Routemaster could almost be regarded as a relatively small sub class of bus by comparison with the sheer volume of RT units built, operated and passing through regular production line overhauls there!
Indeed, although the RM was a ground-breaking, state of the art vehicle when conceived, it had an awfully long gestation and had become obsolete before many the last examples had been delivered! A painfully slow production rate meant that quite a number of RM's were just coming in for their first "cycles" from new when full RT overhauls ceased in the early 70's!

Dave, I'm glad you like the picture, but I was being a bit cheeky with that bit about the green colour!

Although I have collected a number of bits and pieces from Central Area RT's that provide really good original red paint samples, I deeply regret not dipping into my pocket when several boxes of genuine, ex LT Country Area and Green Line bonnet plates and rear wheel discs turned up at the old Euston Collector's Corner!

"Lincoln green" it was by name, but I've yet to get my hands on, and thus to be able to closely examine reliable samples of the particular shade. I fear that I am over sensitive and will always remain almost pathologically suspicious of any tin of paint - from any supplier - whether it purports to be "accurate" or not!

Pete.

 

[geoff_nicholls]

suspicious of any tin of paint - from any supplier - whether it purports to be "accurate" or not!

That reminds me of the saga of the tins of Great Eastern blue paint, and the livery of J69 no 87

 

[76043]

The LT Museum lists their moquette collection here.

The collection

I seem to remember RT & RF moquette was different to RM and central line moquette, which may have been the same as DMS & SMS moquette??

My Dad often said what a nice colour Lincoln Green was, but it was the Green Line colour, darker than the Country green.

Those battered RTs remind me of staff family outings as a kid. The battered staff bus would take staff families on outings, I remember I think a trip to Brighton where on the way back the thing overheated forcing us off the road while someone sorted it out. I remember lots of steam...

Then there's the staff family trip to Didcot railway centre on an RM. Us kids were running up and down the bus with just a tiny 4 or 5 inch wide piece of material put over the platform to stop anyone getting on, but too high to stop kids falling off the back of the platform. No one did of course, but I do remember the bus going at what seemed quite a lick.

A school friend of mine did fall of the back of an RM to much laughter shamefully looking back, the bus didn't stop, he was fine but it's probably a good job there are doors now...

Tony

 

[Peter Insole]

Hopefully I might be able to clear up a few points about seat fabrics?

RT - RF fabric was this standard one for all "postwar" bus types : Colourways were: "Cut" (horizontal); brown, grey-green and black. "Uncut" (vertical); red.



Routemaster fabric was specially designed for them and their distinct and unique interior colour scheme:



The pattern was a slightly modified one based on the standard, but used red instead of brown and some extra grey-green lines. The uncut verticals were now yellow.

The 1956-59-62 tube stock originally had another version of the earlier standard pattern like this:



This time the main background colour was grey, with grey-green, black and red as before.

Green Line RMC and RCL, as well as the later refurbished RF's were the last vehicles to carry this pattern.

Although this material seemed to be fine for bus work it quickly showed signs of extreme wear on the tube, so was soon replaced by an almost entirely uncut and therefore significantly coarser fabric that had been specially designed for the new Metropolitan line A60 stock trains.

Here is that later material on a Central line 62:



Not only was this scratchy stuff ten times tougher, but it was presumably cheaper for LT to purchase - now with one less colour and reduced cutting in the manufacturing process to get charged for?!

Now we come to the utterly dismal, dreary and downright appalling phase that LT (and BR come to that?) went through in the late sixties and early seventies...



To be fair, when seen in isolation it was a very clever and quite natty design in blue, dark green, grey-green and black. It also marked a return to a fully cut use of four colours. But oh dear, it just looked so awfully depressing in the bland, plastic and aluminium interiors of DMS, SMS, MD type buses, as well as Circle line C69-77', and many other Underground cars of the era.

I doubt it was very helpful for any other folk heading home after a day's work in the City, to have our tired eyes further assaulted by the glaringly naked fluorescent strip lighting that was so fashionable back then either?!

Pete.

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

Nice anecdotes Tony - I also remember travelling on RTs, RMs and Green Line RFs.

A school friend of mine did fall of the back of an RM to much laughter shamefully looking back, the bus didn't stop, he was fine but it's probably a good job there are doors now...

Thankfully at the time there was not much traffic behind. Unlike today's jammed roads!

My Dad often said what a nice colour Lincoln Green was, but it was the Green Line colour, darker than the Country green.

I was unaware the Green Line dark green was darker than the country bus green - anyway, both are far superior to the awful NBC green. I certainly do know the LT bus and underground reds were different shades with the underground being darker.

but I do remember the bus going at what seemed quite a lick.

I also recall this apparent speed especially if you stood on the open platform where you watched the countryside whip by. I do know the country buses had a different gear ratios (for higher speeds) than the central area buses.

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

Hopefully I might be able to clear up a few points about seat fabrics?

Nice pictures Pete. Your RT interior illustration is useful to confirm the moquette spacing.

I was also studying the seat backs and rails ..... oh dear , I'd best climb back into my box before I even think about new seats.

As it goes I've already decided to re-glaze the RT as the original glazing has a 0.5 mm gap around the edges - and the classic wind down windows are not fully represented......

 

[76043]

Thanks Pete for clearing up the moquette, I do remember the Central line moquette now. The 70s blue was awful in the context of the grey formica interior panels, but was clever as you say. I remember the later orange and yellow of the Titans, Metrobuses and D stock being a real breath of fresh air, along with the much later refurbished C and D stock refurbs.

Our trip to Didcot was in a central RM as my Dad had got a job on the reds by then. He reckoned the RCLs had a fair turn of speed over the standard RM and could get up to surprising speeds, which was possibly why they had platform doors!!

 

[adrian]

Hopefully I might be able to clear up a few points about seat fabrics?

I think you need to clarify exactly which of these pictures are photos or your drawings because when I showed them to my better half she really struggled. That first photo with the rains drops on the window and the little rivulets running down had her completely fooled. Absolutely stunning