Wood Staining

[jamiepage]

Can I please ask someone to kindly point me in the direction of a comment on WT (I think) to staining wood using inks and alcohol. Have searched but can't find it. The attached is now ready for treatment and I'd like to use inks, unless someone can recommend something better. Thank you.

 

[Dog Star]

I tried using shoe dyes and IPA for staining lime sleepers and the result was not as good as I was expecting in that the depth of colour was very weak and that the Butanone for fixing the chairs, made from ABS, would re-dissolve the dye and then leave "bloom" and circular dye-marks on the wood surface.

My preference for colouring wood is wood spirit stain - the spirit base is absorbed into the wood very well, dries quickly and does not "move" under the influence of Butanone.

 

[John D]

I tried using shoe dyes and IPA for staining lime sleepers

The Americans have been using this for years and it seems to work OK for them though not on lime wood (perhaps this is too dense to allow the dye to percolate through) , they use it on basswood.........I've used it on the latter and it works fine. I've also diluted Ronseal wood dye down with IPA (to whatever shade you want) on basswood and this works OK also.

 

[Simon Dunkley]

Personally, I use well-thinned enamel gunmetal paint.

I suspect you are looking for some of Steve Cook's work, for example here.

Don't wish to be rude in any way (unusually, for me!) but I found this by putting the phrase "wood staining" into the search facility within the site.

 

[28ten]

I use IPA with Daler-Rowney 'Calli' inks Black and Brown, mixed about 95% IPA to ink. your local Hobby craft will stock them. You can also use Vallejo acrylics I cant remember what colours I use off the top of my head, but their advantage is that they dont fade which ink and IPA can. Looking at your model I would go with IPA and ink as you are going to be scuffing and distressing the wood, the main thing is to err on the side of over thinning as its easy to add more to taste. You may also want to treat them before fixing to get a little more variation in tone.

 

[Simon Dunkley]

the main thing is to err on the side of over thinning as its easy to add more to taste

Multiple thin washes: the key to any effective staining process.

 

[Susie]

Depending on the colour you're after, the best solution (sic) is Mylands Non-fade Groundstain.

The depth of colour can be varied by the length of time the stain is on the wood before wiping off the excess, and also by building up multiple applications. If you need a lot, Mylands will also mix up any colour to your requirements.

The depth of colour is also dependent on the species of wood you're staining - basically how absorbant it is, and how smoothly it has been sanded. Before staining, do not use an abrasive which has a stearate on it - such as Lubrasil. This will transfer to the wood and prevent the stain from doing its work. Use ordinary garnet paper or even wet and dry used dry.

Susie

 

[jamiepage]

That's all extremely useful, thank you very much. Yes, that was the thread I was thinking of; that, plus the comments here are all I need. (Well, that plus a gentle touch and an artist's eye).

 

[jamiepage]

Progress so far. A centre rectangle needs to be cut in the planking to allow room for a drawbar spring cradle, the assembly to then be covered with another metal plate. That apart, just small things like the brake ratchet pin to do and a bit of touching up, then distressing/ weathering to hopefully bring it all together.
This first go at the planking looks a bit too much like a Corporation deckchair to me, but the next wave of weathering may address that.

 

[Susie]

Hi Jamie,

As you say, a bit deck chairy!

Bearing in mind the flooring timber would all be the same species, the colour would not vary very much, particularly if it is one of the normal softwoods, although there are some surprises: the colour variation would be within the board itself, not really from board to board, and normally very subtle.

I have an original tender specification for GNR wagons from The Engineer 1882, which states the boards should be "best St. Petersburg deals", and only the outside of the wagon to be painted. The framing to be of St Clair white oak, which is usually pink in colour - it is the flowers that are white!

From this I would suggest that the newly-sawn colour would be light buff, almost white. Have you used Jelutong for the floor? If so, I'd use that as the basic colour and then whether it to look like it has been outside for a few years. To me it all looks a bit too brown (apart from the red board), and also too strong a colour, whereas I'd suggest more grey, and keep it light.

I don't want this to sound too critical (please don't say, "Well, let's see the one you've built!"), but next time try using a species without the dark flecks in the grain: lime or sycamore would be good if you can get it. As you might guess, I've spent many years staining and french-polishing wood!

Best wishes,

Susie

 

[Dog Star]

Bearing in mind the flooring timber would all be the same species, the colour would not vary very much, particularly if it is one of the normal softwoods... ...the colour variation would be within the board itself, not really from board to board, and normally very subtle.

I am not sure that the above advice can be applied without some consideration being given to the intended condition of the vehicle - by that I mean "as built" or "as repaired" or even "as sh*t upon". A wagon in new, as-built, condition is going to reflect Susie's advice that all of the floor boarding ought to be of a similar colour whereas a wagon which has just emerged from a repair might well have one or two bright boards amongst a plethora of dull shades (of the original material). Where all of this goes adrift is when the wagon has been used for a load which is staining in nature...

As an aside, there were two low-fits in the loop road of platform 5 at Basingstoke... this is the period from about 1900 to 2000. The timber of those wagons had gone a lovely greeny-blue-black from being wet continually and carrying a load which had left an oily deposit.

From this I would suggest that the newly-sawn colour would be light buff, almost white. ... To me it all looks a bit too brown and also too strong a colour, whereas I'd suggest more grey, and keep it light.

Given what I have written above, if this model is to represent a wagon which has been repaired at some point then the "red" boards stick out as "not quite". A light dry-brush of grey and silver will age the timber nicely. Then you need to think about the effects of the wheels / tyres on the wood surface between the metal plates - scuffing, scratching and staining from the load are the order of the day.

regards, Graham

 

[jamiepage]

Susie and Graham, thanks very much indeed. I appreciate your comments, especially because I knew the subtleties of natural wood were going to be 'interesting' so any advice is most useful. It was almost inevitable that I would overdo it unfortunately. Must learn when to stop.
I was after the 'faded' but not filthy look of a wagon that had been out in the weather for a few years, and was trying to avoid the cliche of stripy boarding believe it or not. It was a bit of a surprise to see the variety when they were laid next to each other. And where the reddy colours came from is a bit of a mystery.
Your comments re. wood type are very interesting, Susie, thank you. The Jelotung seemed fine grained enough in its natural state but staining brought out the overscaleness of it. Lime or Sycamore it will be next time.
All the best
Jamie

 

[Dog Star]

Your comments re. wood type are very interesting, Susie, thank you. The Jelotung seemed fine grained enough in its natural state but staining brought out the overscaleness of it. Lime or Sycamore it will be next time.

There is a possibility that the staining process has raised the grain... in which case sandpaper back and possibly re-stain.

I have been experimenting with Lime, Walnut and birch ply for 7mm sleepers and the consensus of this forum is that the grain of Lime is too coarse whereas the appearance of walnut was considered as being good for sleepers.

regards, Graham

 

[jamiepage]

Thanks Graham, gently attacking the planks with a fibreglass pencil thing is working well at toning down the deckchair effect. I'll photograph it again when finished to check before and after.
Thanks for the notes on wood types; will definitely work on combinations of wood type/ stain before committing next time.

 

[28ten]

It's hard to tell from the photo, but I would say in needs to be more silver then brown, I'd also run a brass scratch brush along the grain to distress it.

 

[jamiepage]

Colour contrasts are a bit less garish, perhaps (?), but is it anywhere near 'grubby' wood? Woodgrain is definitely still too pronounced , but some judicial distressing as per the Guv'nor, plus the overall weathering to come, should help. Or a nice big sheeted load.

 

[Dog Star]

You can look at the model, we have to look at the photo... the wood grain does not look excessive or pronounced to me, I like the effet which you have achieved with the colouring of the individual planks.

regards, Graham

 

[jamiepage]

Not only has it stopped raining, but the sun has briefly appeared. Took the opportunity to snap progress in natural light. Work required on the solebars to blend in the rather unsubtle weathering, then the odd baulk of timber, chain etc on top and maybe a cut rope end from a tie ring.
I know, Guv'nor, I know; look at those wheel spokes. View attachment 15459

 

[jamiepage]

SORRY if the pic. is too big. Not sure what's happened to the camera.

 

[28ten]

Look at those wheel spokes it looks ok to me, although the edges might well be darker as they would not have any wear in comparison with the center of the wagon. I presume the wagon was loaded from the end?