Wildlife in the garden - Indian summer?

[Osgood]

The two (feeding birds and encouraging rats) tend to go hand in hand I'm afraid, Graham.
And even if you feed only the birds that feed at height the spillage they create will still be enough.
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(Edit: just removed content concerning rodent control measures that did not comply with the OP's request for certain aspects to not be discussed - if only there was another way to resolve the problem)
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Birds that feed at height?

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[Rob Pulham]

In spite of the topic title (trouble with BR classes 24 to 27), this post has nothing to do with prototype engines and hence there have been no withdrawals because of what I have written here! On the other hand, our garden has become a feeding station for rats.

In the last two weeks we have seen a rat in the garden on four separate occasions - always in the same place and always exiting towards the Lower Bank Shed which is adjacent to the field boundary. I appreciate that I cannot stop rats coming into the garden - we have a public space to the rear of the garden and the boundary is trees and scrub - what is giving cause for concern is that the rat has latched onto the existance of food on our "feeder" for those birds that feed normally on the ground. So birds like Robin, Wren, Dunnock, Sparrow, Blackbird - all of which are regular visitors for food.


I do not wish to encourage the rat(s) and I do not want to stop feeding the "ground feeding birds", suggestions to overcome this dilema?

regards, Graham

Hi Graham,

That's exactly why we ended up stopping feeding the birds. You also have to be careful when the hedgehogs hibernate that you don't end up feeding rats too.

 

[Dog Star]

And even if you feed only the birds that feed at height the spillage they create will still be enough.

Tony (@Osgood),

The pick and spit debris from the high level feeders does not worry me because that food is cleared up by the wood pigeons and collar doves as soon as the finches etc. drop the stuff.

regards, Graham

 

[Dog Star]

You also have to be careful when the hedgehogs hibernate that you don't end up feeding rats too.

True and I realised that I needed to:-

a) put food dishes out late at night;
b) lift food dishes early in the morning;
c) check that a HH is feeding whenever our canine HH alarm activates.

regards, Graham

 

[SimonT]

We were 'gifted' a glass topped patio table with metal legs a few years ago when MissT moved back in. She's moved back out and I now use it for ground feeders. Rats will avoid climbing if they can (auth local pest control chap) and my table makes it harder by having an overhang. Something similar could be knocked up from waste timber. If possible place this feeder on a paved surface. Put feed out first thing in the morning and if worries you, clear the debris away when feeding stops about fifteen minutes before last light. I find Dunnucks and Chaffinches do that for me. If you can, limit the amount of feed you put out and top up to control waste.

If you can get some branches and bigger fallen wood, they can go on the table and provide places to secrete food and you can then watch your faovorite birds searching for food. Pushing suet and meal worms into cracks produces great behavior.

The alternatives are give up, use red pellets from your local agricultural supplier (to get stronger you have to be licensed) or run a staff such as ours - a nine year old Rat Russell who prefers beds, a four year old Collie-Terrier cross who is enthusiastic and probably contributes by that alone, a twenty year old cat and his replacement, a four month old kitten who has already cleared the barn. No matter what mankind does, numbers of rats and feral pigeons increase.
Simon

 

[simond]

Simon,

Whilst the overhand will certainly help, I suspect the key element in the success of your table is that it has metal legs, which will provide much less purchase for the rats’ claws than wood would.

 

[Rob Pulham]

If you go back to this post earlier inthe thread Wildlife in the garden - trouble with BR classes 24 and 25
You will see that metal poles/legs don't present too much of an impediment to rats.

 

[D6356]

But electrifying might ! Here in urban Birmingham wildlife is mainly two legged and drug infused ! However just before Crimbo in the early hours met a lovely looking fox - good shiny coat - looked a lot better in LED streetlight than previous orange/sodium light. The Gulls who inhabit the man made cliffs and other birds fend well off takeaway debris - funnily kebab meat is left for the rats that are less discerning. nothing touches the lettuce/salad remains which perhaps says a lot! Rats well fed and live in council bin compound and a nearby fence line backing on to a bus stop shelter even in the cold snap they were quite adventurous and active in daylight given the screams and leaping seen from my flat- my modelling desk does allow a good overview. Not many dogs in the area (4 legged) and feral/ lazy cats are fed by several cat ladies who enjoy the conversations had with the moggies. Sunday morning one regular lady tops up some trays left in a dead end alley and has done for at least 5 years since I first met her one morning walking to work.
It is however good to read the thread to see what is happening in the collectives gardens! thanks.

 

[SimonT]

Simon,
the secret is both - the pest bloke!

 

[oldravendale]

We'd not seen any rats since we moved here which was a bit of a surprise as we're quite well out in the country and with adjacent farmland. I hasten to say that's not to say that there were no rats, just that I'd never seen them even when we had the bird feeders out. (We saw quite a lot when in our last house but I put that down to both the adjacent farm land and derelict land next door). However there was suddenly a rat periodically on our crab apple tree during the recent cold and snowy weather. It was taking the apples and carrying them away but I have no idea where.

It returned even when the snow had gone so I'm sorry to say that I put out some "blue food", well covered with old guttering and bricks to ensure the local moggies didn't find it. I checked after a week and blue food all gone and no sign of Mr Rat.

Rats are one animal I can't abide. I don't even go after the pigeons or grey squirrels, nuisances though they are. I can even rub along with the mice and voles, even when they eat my beetroot from below the ground.

Brian

 

[Peter Insole]

I must admit that I find any sort of support for the use of poison to control "pests" in the environment extremely troubling. Anyone who thinks it is OK, under any circumstances is I fear deluding themselves - and possibly others. If any poison is effective at killing a rat - it will also harm many other species too - and usually does.

The main problem is that we do not tend to directly observe the appalling results. If we did, we might think twice.

Pete.

 

[markjj]

I do not wish to encourage the rat(s) and I do not want to stop feeding the "ground feeding birds", suggestions to overcome this dilema?

regards, Graham

Invest in a good Air Rifle Graham it's much more humane and safer than poison.

 

[Max M]

Talking of two legged animals, seeing is believing.......................

 

[oldravendale]

I must admit that I find any sort of support for the use of poison to control "pests" in the environment extremely troubling. Anyone who thinks it is OK, under any circumstances is I fear deluding themselves - and possibly others. If any poison is effective at killing a rat - it will also harm many other species too - and usually does.

The main problem is that we do not tend to directly observe the appalling results. If we did, we might think twice.

Pete.

Hello Pete.

I lived in suburbia for my childhood and very early adult years. It was sort of possible to ignore rats. But then moved to the country for most of my adult life. In fact I never saw a rat until we moved close to farmland. I knew they were there but they kept a respectful distance. Sorry to say, Pete, when they've run across your feet and there's a real risk they'll end up in the loft there's a need to do something about it. They are exceptionally destructive. We called the rat man out and he administered "blue food" and told us that as long as we lived close to farmland we'd have rats. The poison had an immediate effect so we have used it successfully thereafter. I've not used an air rifle and there's a risk to adjacent properties (and probably to myself) if I did so. The dog worked to a degree but it'd be irresponsible (to the dog) for us to have another at our age.

When it's a choice between rats and dead rats I'll go for the latter every time. That doesn't mean I'm comfortable about it but find me a better solution.

BTW, I'm a committed conservationist but that doesn't mean I'd feed grey squirrels, pigeons or foxes by choice, or even red kites which are now, frankly, something of a pain. But I don't care too much when the hares or deer come in to the garden and eat the vegetables.

I guess I must just be selective about my wildlife!

Brian

 

[mickoo]

There should be nothing delusional about rats or poisoning them, they're filthy disease ridden vermin and should be eradicated where ever possible.

There are controlled ways to kill the little b'st'ds that may result in some collateral damage; sad as that may be, it's far better than leaving rats uncontrolled.

When they're crawling through you toilets, and pi55ing in your loft and eating your cables then folks might have a different view. Country born and bred I've been exposed to rats since about seven years old and it continued on the docks, the only good rat is a dead rat.

If I find rats in my loft, I'll poison them, if I find them in my drains, I'll poison them, if I find them on my grounds, I'll poison them. I will do it responsibly and with due care to other forms of wildlife....can't yet think of anything else that might be in my drains or loft that didn't need poisoning mind.

Nothing against any other form of wildlife (except maybe pigeons which are nowt more than rats with wings) but rats.....zero tolerance.

 

[simond]

I remember my dad talking about rats at harvest time - he grew up on a farm in Donegal - and how the kids would stand around waiting, armed with anything handy, as the hayricks were taken down and baled (traction engine, driving the baler with a big leather belt). At some point, the rats would attempt to bale out en masse, and then…

whilst I respect Graham’s request to avoid aspects of nature red in tooth and claw, there are areas where animals and people interact, mostly happily, but mosquitos, rats, pigeons, and the bloody woman up the road who fed the seagulls…

 

[Osgood]

Trouble is, Pete makes a valid point - a poisoned rat can, if it enters the food chain, cause the death of for example a bird of prey through the action of the poison.

Each of us has to make a choice of whether we need to protect ourselves and property against intruders, and if so how.
Some options may not be open to us.
If we can accept that each of our circumstances are different and that none of us would harm creatures for any other reason than necessity, could we perhaps just acknowledge post 381 at the top of page 20 and leave it that?

Had it not been such a miserably wet and windy day there might have been something in the wildlife dept. here that I could have photographed and posted to get this topic back on an even keel - other than almost stepping on a hare in the ’back garden’ and the hound evicting some rabbits hiding under tarpaulins it’s been a bit quiet.

 

[mickoo]

Trouble is, Pete makes a valid point - a poisoned rat can, if it enters the food chain, cause the death of for example a bird of prey through the action of the poison.

That would be regrettable, but talk to any dairy or poultry farmer and they'd argue (quite convincingly) that's a small risk to take.

The cost to the food industry, be it farming, storage or dining, by rats is colossal, let alone the cost to life in countries less advanced as ours.

I'm sorry, I cannot justify the possible preservation of carnivores higher up the food chain over the lives of people destroyed by diseases transmitted by rats. I respect others that do (you are better people than I), but that does not sit well with my morale compass.

In a somewhat partial defense to the rat, it is human waste that brings them closer to our domestic environment (I suspect they have always existed in agriculture). Stop leaving food out, be it well intended feeding of other animals or just rubbish/waste left out to rot, make sure it is in bins they cannot access and they will be forced to forage elsewhere. If you must leave food out then control your waste as best you can.

 

[Jordan]

According to the anecdotes in this book...

....it was a poor Railway Goods Depot that didn't have at least one cat on the premises, more at larger ones, specifically for rat catching. The GWR even made provision for payment of milk used to feed them.
The last haulage company I worked for had trouble with rats, especially as it warehoused dry foods. We used to see them at night especially. I tried to run over one once but it dodged the wheels of the yard tug.
We didn't have cats either, just plastic boxes with blue food inside. Dunno if it worked.

 

[SimonT]

a miserably wet and windy day

Correction - two months of constant rain and wind. So here is something to look forward to (If you live in a place where November to March is constant wind and rain).

Slightly fuzzy as I had to take the photo through the glass of the kitchen door and she was forty feet away.
Simon