Steel 13T PO Wagon - the practicals

[Dikitriki]

Hi

We've had the tutorials from Overseer:

http://www.westernthunder.co.uk/index.php?threads/steel-13t-private-owner-wagon.3908/

Now it's the practicals.

This thread is for all those members who feel inspired to follow in Overseer's footsteps to show what they are doing.

I'm building a 7mm example for Heyside. I've ordered the nickel silver and some strip from Eileen's, and am reliably informed it is on its way to me. I need to find out a little more about the brake gear, but I'm considering mating the body with a plastic kit chassis.I'm looking forward to a little bit of a scratch-building, especially as I seem to be in wagon mode at the moment.

Richard

 

[Wagonman]

Ah "wagon mode". Always a good place to be...


Richard

 

[Steve Cook]

I'm going to have a go at making one too, mainly because I'm interested in the fabrication techniques Fraser has demonstrated. I've chosen to build my body in plasticard because I have some in stock and I fancy trying it out. The main body sides are going to have to be 0.5mm thick as the 0.25mm sheet is just too flexible, but I hope I can stay with similar thicknesses for the rivetted strips.

Although I'll be gluing rather than soldering, everything else (I hope) will carry over - measuring the drawing, marking out, cutting to size (albeit using knife rather than scrawker), thinking about assembly order, setting tools up for rivets etc etc

Speaking of which, the first step after printing the drawing was to knock up a quick modification to the fence for my Metalsmith rivet press. As supplied, the fence will only run up to the edge of the die which makes getting rivets very close to the edge of the material (or the centre of a 2mm wide strip) very difficult - I used a piece of right angle brass and soldered it to a short length of nickel bar. The nickel is clamped between the two halves of the original fence and allows the angle to sit on top of the die, giving me better control of the reference edge.



Having got that far, I'm now playing with the spacing and depth to get the types of shapes I want



I wish I had a smaller size rivet tool, I think this one is a little large, but as I bought it mainly for Gauge 1 I can't complain. Hopefully I can catch up with Metalsmith in a couple of weeks at the G1MRA AGM to purchase another couple of sizes.
Right, more fiddling around and measuring to go
Steve

 

[Simon]

Simple solution to that, just build it to 1/32 - we can always use more wagons down here in the West Country!

Just a thought.....

Simon

 

[Overseer]

Hi

We've had the tutorials from Overseer:

http://www.westernthunder.co.uk/index.php?threads/steel-13t-private-owner-wagon.3908/

Now it's the practicals.

This thread is for all those members who feel inspired to follow in Overseer's footsteps to show what they are doing.

I'm building a 7mm example for Heyside. I've ordered the nickel silver and some strip from Eileen's, and am reliably informed it is on its way to me. I need to find out a little more about the brake gear, but I'm considering mating the body with a plastic kit chassis.I'm looking forward to a little bit of a scratch-building, especially as I seem to be in wagon mode at the moment.

Richard

Good to see, I will be watching with interest. The brake gear was independent each side due to the bottom doors, the same as timber PO wagons. I will get to it next week.

Steve, try building it in brass, nickel silver or even tinplate. You might be surprised to find that it is not any more difficult than plastic, with the big benefit of being stronger and stable in thin sheets.

I look forward to seeing a fleet of 13T steel wagons across WT.

 

[Dikitriki]

The brake gear was independent each side due to the bottom doors, the same as timber PO wagons. I will get to it next week.

Thank you for that Fraser. I had made the assumption from the photos you posted that it was independent either side due to the 2 V hangers visible on the near side.

Richard

 

[iak63]

Will there be register taken?

 

[Dog Star]

Will there be register taken?

Yes...

...at the back of the class .

 

[Dikitriki]

Hi

My nickel silver arrived today - good service from Eileen's.

I printed off the drawing, and from long experience, checked a known measurement - the wheelbase of 9ft. Hmmm 60mm. Scanned back in and with a little bit of enlargement, I got an accurate scale drawing. I don't doubt the original was correct by the way, just the set up/printer here.

A little while later, I arrived at this:



The long lengths were cut with a Stanley knife (I'm waiting for the Olfa PLC to arrive), and the verticals with my guillotine - a brilliant bit of kit from Metalsmiths that they don't seem to make anymore.

That was very straightforward, and I shall warm up the rivet press over the weekend. I don't as yet know whether I am going to try and emboss strips or use Fraser's method. I'll try both and report back.

I've also ordered a Parkside kit (PS33) with a view to using the chassis.

Richard

 

[BrushType4]

Hi

My nickel silver arrived today - good service from Eileen's.

I printed off the drawing, and from long experience, checked a known measurement - the wheelbase of 9ft. Hmmm 60mm. Scanned back in and with a little bit of enlargement, I got an accurate scale drawing. I don't doubt the original was correct by the way, just the set up/printer here.

A little while later, I arrived at this:

View attachment 37167

The long lengths were cut with a Stanley knife (I'm waiting for the Olfa PLC to arrive), and the verticals with my guillotine - a brilliant bit of kit from Metalsmiths that they don't seem to make anymore.

That was very straightforward, and I shall warm up the rivet press over the weekend. I don't as yet know whether I am going to try and emboss strips or use Fraser's method. I'll try both and report back.

I've also ordered a Parkside kit (PS33) with a view to using the chassis.

Richard

Richard, I'm sure Parkside will split the kits if you only need a few sprues.

Looking forward to the next instalment.

 

[Steve Cook]

Steve, try building it in brass, nickel silver or even tinplate. You might be surprised to find that it is not any more difficult than plastic, with the big benefit of being stronger and stable in thin sheets.

Hi Fraser
I'm afraid I'm going to stick with the plasticard for my first 7mm build, with the materials to hand (and being a bit easier to cut out), I'm finding it a useful method for getting a feel for the size of the scale. I've identified a GWR wagon Diag O30 to build in brass afterwards - same techniques, different shape. One step at a time for me though


The five main pieces were marked up and cut out of 0.5mm thick plasticard this afternoon before the rivet locations were transferred from the drawing to the sides and ends. The modified fence was inverted on the rivet press to act as a support.



I set the distance from the fence to the centre of the die to the required dimension with a pair of vernier calipers, hit a test piece of plasticard a couple of times for confirmation, then did the internal rivets on the sides.



The fence was then set back to its original position and the rivets around the edges of the sides and ends punched.



Time to start working on the strips.

As I have no reference yet, would somebody please be able to tell me what the dimension across the outside of the W irons is when they are folded down? The plastic strip is going to be fragile where it extends below the body sides to I am going to have to put solebars in before gluing the strips in place. I would rather avoid a previous experience of discovering that a bought chassis was slightly overscale, causing much gnashing of teeth and scraping to create room for it.
Many Thanks
Steve

 

[Steve Cook]

If one distraction is good, two must be better....

The start of a G1 version of the wagon, same techniques and tools, just thicker material, 1mm in this case. It took a couple of goes on scrap material to work out just how close to the edge I could press the rivets without deforming the plasticard, 1mm edge to centre as it turned out. It would have been better if I had observed that the rivets at the bottom of the wagon bodywork are closer to the edge than the top ones before I finished the 7mm ones though

As a size comparison



More tomorrow.
Steve

 

[Dikitriki]

Richard, I'm sure Parkside will split the kits if you only need a few sprues.

Looking forward to the next instalment.

Hi Phil,

I'm sure they would, and I have had many bits and bobs from them in the past. But when I thought about it, the only 2 pieces in the kit I wouldn't be using were the sides. The ends I am expecting to butcher for the buffer beams, so I don't think there will be any unused sprues.

In the meantime, I have been rivetting a side and making a couple of rivetted strips. For the strips, I used Fraser's method of rivetting one side of a larger piece and cutting it off afterwards. That all worked fine, and there was not very much distortion. I have rivetted just a little of the inside above the doors as the wagon will be coaled, and I didn't see the need to create extra work when it would not be visible.



I shall try rivetting some strips next time, but I can't imagine it will be easier.

Richard

 

[Simon]

If one distraction is good, two must be better....

The start of a G1 version of the wagon, same techniques and tools, just thicker material, 1mm in this case. It took a couple of goes on scrap material to work out just how close to the edge I could press the rivets without deforming the plasticard, 1mm edge to centre as it turned out. It would have been better if I had observed that the rivets at the bottom of the wagon bodywork are closer to the edge than the top ones before I finished the 7mm ones though

As a size comparison

View attachment 37273

More tomorrow.
Steve

Brilliant!

I hadn't noticed you'd started a sensibly sized version - top man!

Simon

 

[AndyB]

If one distraction is good, two three must be better....

.... go on, why not do a G3 version too!!

Andy

 

[Steve Cook]

Race ya
Top to bottom, G3, G1, 7mm.



Steve

 

[Dikitriki]

Hi

A bit more work this evening. I tried to rivet 2mm strips. No chance. I found the strip difficult to hold against the fence, and the line of rivets weaved drunkenly about the middle, as well as the strip being distorted. Straight in the bin. With the larger piece, I was able to clamp it to the indexing table anyway, so it was very much easier, if more time-consuming.

Here's where I'm up to:



Richard

 

[Overseer]

As I have no reference yet, would somebody please be able to tell me what the dimension across the outside of the W irons is when they are folded down? The plastic strip is going to be fragile where it extends below the body sides to I am going to have to put solebars in before gluing the strips in place. I would rather avoid a previous experience of discovering that a bought chassis was slightly overscale, causing much gnashing of teeth and scraping to create room for it.

Steve, the 7mm scale Exactoscale underframe unit is 42.5 mm wide.

 

[Steve Cook]

Thank you very much Fraser

 

[Steve Cook]

I finished off the riveting on the G1 body parts this evening, then scribed centre lines and axle lines on the bottom of the floor panels. A spot of gluing together using squares for alignment has resulted in 7mm and G1 wagon bodies joining the shelf of current projects
Both are weighted down with coins in the corners whilst fractionally over width spacers are inserted between the sides - hopefully that will help to reduce any bowing.



I've got some 5/16 channel for the G1 wagon, its a fraction oversize but it will do. I'm going to have to make up something suitable for the 7mm one, I think gluing a couple of strips of 2.5 x 2.5 angle together, then putting a thin layer of plasticard with the rivets over the join will create something good enough. Thats a job for tomorrow though.
Steve