daifly
Western Thunderer
It was Richard de Camin - they were sold on the Meteor Models stand and converted the W1/5 to W8 or W10.
7mm Slaters GWR MEX Cattle Wagons (Six of them)
- Thread starter Rob Pulham
- Start date
Buckjumper
Flying Squad
No, there doesn't seem to be any bowing at all thankfully
Thanks Rob, useful to know.
Rob Pulham
Western Thunderer
A little more has been done on these this weekend. I have cut all the head bars and fitted the ones in the door stiles to mine - Graham needs to work out what height his need to be - some were 6" some were 10"...
We also had an email conversation a couple of weeks or so ago about washer plates which me in my ignorance didn't get
. But while looking at the information that Graham has supplied I noticed that the inside strips for the drop flap hinges were visible in the background of one of the photos. So I spent some time fitting them from 0.3mm styrene sheet punched to represent the bolt heads (which sadly don't show up that well in the photo below).
I had a chat with Graham this evening about a couple of things and mentioned what I had done to which he reminded me of our discussion and the light bulb went on.......
Washer plates.....
I do wish that I had seen them prior to putting the laths on but when on the inside and under a layer of weathering I think that they will do.
We also had an email conversation a couple of weeks or so ago about washer plates which me in my ignorance didn't get
. But while looking at the information that Graham has supplied I noticed that the inside strips for the drop flap hinges were visible in the background of one of the photos. So I spent some time fitting them from 0.3mm styrene sheet punched to represent the bolt heads (which sadly don't show up that well in the photo below). I had a chat with Graham this evening about a couple of things and mentioned what I had done to which he reminded me of our discussion and the light bulb went on.......
Washer plates.....I do wish that I had seen them prior to putting the laths on but when on the inside and under a layer of weathering I think that they will do.
Dog Star
Western Thunderer
Ah, that is an easy one... for me that is.
When the W1 / W5 wagons were built (1887 to circa 1911) the headbars were 6" above the top of the side sheeting. The headbars were raised to 10" at a later date, thought to be from circa 1920. Generally the bars above the fixed sides and the bars in the doors were at the same height, either all at 6" or all at 10"..... and being this is a GWR design there had to be at least one oddity. Wagon no. 26046 was photographed, sometime after 1928, with headbars above the sides at 10" and bars in the doors at 6".... who knows why
.So as my modelling interest is a stretchy October 1910 then my models need the bars at 6" for the sides and the doors. Rob is doing his model in a post 1920 period so the bars on his model could be at either 6" or 10" (unless Rob chooses to model Mex no. 26046).
Simples, not like the rest of the design story.
regards, Graham
Dog Star
Western Thunderer
The design of the GWR "large" cattle wagon started circa 1870 and continued beyond nationalisation (BR adopted and adapted the GWR MEX design for the standard BR cattle wagon). The Slater's kit is a good representation of the wagons which were allocated to GWR diagrams W1 (unfitted) and W5 (fitted) so that looks, at first impression, to be for wagons built before 1911 (end of W5 construction). The kit can be used for some of the later cattle wagon diagrams provided that the ends are modified to accomodate a different roof radius.
In what follows I am describing the cattle wagons which had wooden side sheeting inside of iron / steel stanchions... which excludes those cattle wagons built of iron and those built with outside wood framing.
Now choosing running numbers is not so easy as implied in the above text. The very first "large" cattle wagons had no roof and were 18' 0" between ends. Roofs became a legal requirement from 1904... the GWR started to build cattle wagons with roofs at a much earlier date, by 1873 given a photo at New Milford in that year. Around 1893 the GWR introduced a movable partition for the "large" design so that such wagons could be used for either "medium" or "small" capacities. Some bright spark must have realised that the partition reduced the inside length of the wagon so the design was lengthened to 18'6" between ends. This change in length means that wagon nos. 38221-38550 (Old Series Lots 464, 476, 625, 651) cannot be represented by the kit without shortening the body. Otherwise, body length was constant for the diagrams W1 and W5.
The original design of "large" wagon had a curb rail which was probably made from "L" angle with the foot of the "L" on the inside, the floor probably rested on the foot of the angle. The bottom of the door drop flap was level with the bottom of the curb rail and was provided with cut-outs to clear the door hinges (referred to as "scallops" in GWR Goods Wagons by Tourret). Subsequently the design was changed so that either the "L" angle was reversed or another piece of "L" angle was added to the existing curb - in this later design the "visible" curb looks like an upside-down "L" with the horizontal portion of the angle to the outside of the wagon. The revised curb design has the visible angle projecting beyond the face of the side sheeting - probably fixed to the floor / stanchions such that the back of the angle is flush with the back of the stanchions. Whilst the early design is smooth between stanchions that is not the case with the later design which shows three dome-headed fixings between each pair of stanchions. Wagons with the later style of curb rail have door drop flaps without the "scallops", the bottom of such flaps being in line with the top of the curb rail. Just to make life more interesting, many wagons built to the early style were converted to the later style, most likely when either a wagon received vacuum brakes or the body sheeting required replacement. And yes, there is at least one example of a wagon, no. 16095, with the early style of curb rail and the later style of drop flap (photographed in that condition post 1928).
At this time there is no definitive statement as to when the GWR changed the build in regard to the curb rail. A study of photographs and consultation with the GWR Wagon Oracle suggests that the last wagon lots to feature the scallop edge are probably L337 or L441 for W1 and L529 for W5.
The Slater's kit represents wagons with the reversed / upside-down angle for the curb rail and drop flaps without scallops - so that means that suitable running numbers are going to come from lots 441 for W1 and after L529 for W5... plus photographic evidence for wagons which were converted after building. I have chosen the following:-
13812, lot 396, as diagram W5, modified by 1923;
13983, lot 337, as diagram W5, either built as such or modified by 1920s;
26018, lot 662, as diagram W5, probably built as such;
38659, lot 66, as diagram W1, modified by 1939;
38901, lot 123, as diagram W1, modified by 1940.
Now that just leaves the questions of cleaning slots, brake arrangement, unfitted / fitted, wood / steel roofs, door bangers... to be covered in future posts.
regards, Graham
[I am grateful to the continuing support of John Lewis in respect of GW wagon matters and I acknowledge the core information within GWR Wagons (Tourret), MRJ articles (issues 24, 25) and Great Western Railway Journal (issue 42).]
In what follows I am describing the cattle wagons which had wooden side sheeting inside of iron / steel stanchions... which excludes those cattle wagons built of iron and those built with outside wood framing.
Now choosing running numbers is not so easy as implied in the above text. The very first "large" cattle wagons had no roof and were 18' 0" between ends. Roofs became a legal requirement from 1904... the GWR started to build cattle wagons with roofs at a much earlier date, by 1873 given a photo at New Milford in that year. Around 1893 the GWR introduced a movable partition for the "large" design so that such wagons could be used for either "medium" or "small" capacities. Some bright spark must have realised that the partition reduced the inside length of the wagon so the design was lengthened to 18'6" between ends. This change in length means that wagon nos. 38221-38550 (Old Series Lots 464, 476, 625, 651) cannot be represented by the kit without shortening the body. Otherwise, body length was constant for the diagrams W1 and W5.
The original design of "large" wagon had a curb rail which was probably made from "L" angle with the foot of the "L" on the inside, the floor probably rested on the foot of the angle. The bottom of the door drop flap was level with the bottom of the curb rail and was provided with cut-outs to clear the door hinges (referred to as "scallops" in GWR Goods Wagons by Tourret). Subsequently the design was changed so that either the "L" angle was reversed or another piece of "L" angle was added to the existing curb - in this later design the "visible" curb looks like an upside-down "L" with the horizontal portion of the angle to the outside of the wagon. The revised curb design has the visible angle projecting beyond the face of the side sheeting - probably fixed to the floor / stanchions such that the back of the angle is flush with the back of the stanchions. Whilst the early design is smooth between stanchions that is not the case with the later design which shows three dome-headed fixings between each pair of stanchions. Wagons with the later style of curb rail have door drop flaps without the "scallops", the bottom of such flaps being in line with the top of the curb rail. Just to make life more interesting, many wagons built to the early style were converted to the later style, most likely when either a wagon received vacuum brakes or the body sheeting required replacement. And yes, there is at least one example of a wagon, no. 16095, with the early style of curb rail and the later style of drop flap (photographed in that condition post 1928).
At this time there is no definitive statement as to when the GWR changed the build in regard to the curb rail. A study of photographs and consultation with the GWR Wagon Oracle suggests that the last wagon lots to feature the scallop edge are probably L337 or L441 for W1 and L529 for W5.
The Slater's kit represents wagons with the reversed / upside-down angle for the curb rail and drop flaps without scallops - so that means that suitable running numbers are going to come from lots 441 for W1 and after L529 for W5... plus photographic evidence for wagons which were converted after building. I have chosen the following:-
13812, lot 396, as diagram W5, modified by 1923;
13983, lot 337, as diagram W5, either built as such or modified by 1920s;
26018, lot 662, as diagram W5, probably built as such;
38659, lot 66, as diagram W1, modified by 1939;
38901, lot 123, as diagram W1, modified by 1940.
Now that just leaves the questions of cleaning slots, brake arrangement, unfitted / fitted, wood / steel roofs, door bangers... to be covered in future posts.
regards, Graham
[I am grateful to the continuing support of John Lewis in respect of GW wagon matters and I acknowledge the core information within GWR Wagons (Tourret), MRJ articles (issues 24, 25) and Great Western Railway Journal (issue 42).]
Rob Pulham
Western Thunderer
Mine is already done at 6" (the one in the photo). Where I can I am trying everything out on mine first before following on with Graham's
Dog Star
Western Thunderer
So what is the difference between the body styles? Ignoring the question of the slots for cleaning out of detritus the variance is primarily that of the curb rail and door drop flap. As far as I know, the best photo to illustrate the original body style for a W1 wagon is that of no.68409 - the wagon was photographed as part of the GWR wagon livery trials in 1904 at which point the wagon was in as-built condition and not yet released to traffic.
Photograph by GWR.
Wagon no. 68409, built under Lot 441 in 1904, to diagram W1. The photo shows the initial style of curb rail (smooth surface and curb behind the stanchions) together with the scallop edge of the door drop flap (bottom edge of door level with bottom edge of curb). The wagon has oil boxes and the initial form of Dean Churchward brake gear (known to modellers as "DC1").
I know not why... however the GWR seems to have had a liking for photographing MEXs which were covered in lime wash, so to illustrate the later body style for W1/W5 wagons the photo is of an "in-service" wagon.
Photograph by GWR
Wagon no. 13983 was built as an unfitted wagon to diagram W1 under Lot 337 (so the body style would have been as per no. 68409 above). The wagon was rebuilt later with vacuum brakes (as in the photo) and re-allocated to diagram W5. The photo shows the later style of curb rail (dome-head fasteners and curb extending beyond stanchions) together with the plain lower edge to the door (bottom of door level with top edge of curb). The wagon has a Dean Churchward brake gear arrangement with vacuum cylinder (known to modellers as "DC3"). There is a fair chance that the change to the later style of curb / door was done at the same time that the vacuum brake was fitted.
The photo is dated to 1922, so the no. 13983 is about twenty years old and, presumably, had sheeting repairs in that time. Over times the GWR changed the arrangement of the "slots" in the sheeting- this wagon has had the slots in the end of the wagon "filled-in", probably by way of new planking.
Photograph by GWR.
Wagon no. 68409, built under Lot 441 in 1904, to diagram W1. The photo shows the initial style of curb rail (smooth surface and curb behind the stanchions) together with the scallop edge of the door drop flap (bottom edge of door level with bottom edge of curb). The wagon has oil boxes and the initial form of Dean Churchward brake gear (known to modellers as "DC1").
I know not why... however the GWR seems to have had a liking for photographing MEXs which were covered in lime wash, so to illustrate the later body style for W1/W5 wagons the photo is of an "in-service" wagon.
Photograph by GWR
Wagon no. 13983 was built as an unfitted wagon to diagram W1 under Lot 337 (so the body style would have been as per no. 68409 above). The wagon was rebuilt later with vacuum brakes (as in the photo) and re-allocated to diagram W5. The photo shows the later style of curb rail (dome-head fasteners and curb extending beyond stanchions) together with the plain lower edge to the door (bottom of door level with top edge of curb). The wagon has a Dean Churchward brake gear arrangement with vacuum cylinder (known to modellers as "DC3"). There is a fair chance that the change to the later style of curb / door was done at the same time that the vacuum brake was fitted.
The photo is dated to 1922, so the no. 13983 is about twenty years old and, presumably, had sheeting repairs in that time. Over times the GWR changed the arrangement of the "slots" in the sheeting- this wagon has had the slots in the end of the wagon "filled-in", probably by way of new planking.
Dog Star
Western Thunderer
The initial builds of "large" cattle wagons, later allocated to diagram W1), were shorter than the "standard" length of later W1/W5 wagons (see this post). To illustrate those early - shorter - versions of the standard W1, here is an example of the shorter vehicles... spot the difference in length:-
Photograph thought to be by Michael Longridge.
The photograph of wagon no. 38262, Old Series Lot 464, shows the wagon in the 1940s. The body appears to have been rebuilt with new door flap, new curb rails and altered head bars (now at 10" rather than 6" above the side sheeting). The alteration to the brake gear was to add the second brake lever on the far side (to comply with Board of Trade 1911 regulation) rather than conversion to either DC1 (unfitted) or DC3 (fitted).
Photograph thought to be by Michael Longridge.
The photograph of wagon no. 38262, Old Series Lot 464, shows the wagon in the 1940s. The body appears to have been rebuilt with new door flap, new curb rails and altered head bars (now at 10" rather than 6" above the side sheeting). The alteration to the brake gear was to add the second brake lever on the far side (to comply with Board of Trade 1911 regulation) rather than conversion to either DC1 (unfitted) or DC3 (fitted).
Dog Star
Western Thunderer
Neatly overlooking the body slots for now - and for as long as I can - time to consider the brake arrangements of the "large" cattle wagons which were allocated to diagram W1 and W5. As the GWR continued to build W1/W5 wagons over at least 20 years there is, as may be expected, different styles of brake arrangement and each style existed in several variants. In summary, and based solely upon photographic evidence, the different styles / variants can be described as:-
* long-lever, single double-brake;
* long-lever, single double-brake, BoT 1911 compliant;
* Dean-Churchward, single double brake, lifting link, (DC1 to modellers);
* Dean-Churchward, double-brake, vacuum-fitted (DC2);
* Dean-Churchward, double-brake, cross-corner (DC3).
Given that this summary is based upon photographs then there is a chance that there might be a further variant of the long-lever brake and that is noted in the text below.
Long-lever brakes
The Long-lever brake arrangement was a classic Victorian brake... two brake blocks and a handbrake lever on one side of the wagon. The GWR was perverse as ever and used a brake block which was bolted rigidly to the brake block hanger with the hanger pivoted from a cross-bearer. There was a single V-hanger, between the handbrake lever and the tumbler, with the inner end of the tumbler shaft supported by a round rod which was fixed to the underframe. The description of the brake design as "Long-lever" derives from the wagon wheelbase - the wagon wheelbase of 11'0" meant that the brake push-rods and handbrake lever were longer than used on contemporary open wagons (of 9'0" wheelbase) and that fact dictated a later variant of the Long-lever brake arrangement.
Cheap, cheerful and effective, this brake arrangement is illustrated by wagon no. 38262, built on Old Series Lot 464 to diagram W1. See the previous post for the photograph.
The initial design of Long-lever brake was not compliant with the Board of Trade 1911 regulations regarding the operation of wagon brakes in that the wagon brakes could be applied only from one side of the wagon. Maybe the GWR had exhausted stocks of the necessary components... or maybe the accountants decreed that the cost of compliance needed to be minimised... either way the GWR demonstrated ingenuity and used standard wagon parts when rebuilding the Long-lever wagons to comply with the regulations. The additional V-hanger was offset from the wagon centre-line so that the standard, shorter, push-rod placed the brake block adjacent to the right hand wheel. The extra brake block and handbrake lever are shown in the photo of wagon no. 38901, built on Lot 123 to diagram W1.
Photographer not known, a copy exists in the R Tourret collection.
In the 1930s the GWR rebuilt / converted many cattle wagons for the conveyance of Ale in bottles, barrels and/or casks. Fortunately for us the GWR photographer recorded one of the conversions and the photo shows the "double-brake" side of a BoT compliant Long-lever brake arrangement. Wagon no.38659 was built on Lot 66 to diagram W1.
Photograph by GWR.
Finally, the design of Long-lever brakes originated in the days when the GWR used a rigid mounting of brake blocks to brake hangers. Although not seen in the relatively few photographs of W1 wagons there is a chance that some of the Long-lever wagons might have had the original brake blocks replaced by a more recent type where the brake block is attached to the hangers by a pin rather than a bolt.
Dean-Churchward (DC...) brakes
DC lifting link brake
The initial design of DC brakes provided for a double-brake on one side of the wagon with a handbrake lever on each side of the wagon. The two handbrake levers were mounted on one cross-shaft and hence fell foul of the future BoT regulations in two respects:-
* the BoT required that the brake could be applied from either side of the wagon and that the brake
could be released only from the side where the brake had been applied. The DC design allowed for
the brake to be removed from either side of the wagon.
* the BoT required that the handbrake lever was at the right hand side of the wagon. The DC design
had both handbrake levers at the same end of the wagon because the levers were mounted on the same
shaft.
This design of brake is known to modellers as "DC1" and is illustrated by wagon no. 68409, seen previously. Wagons with DC1 brake can be separated from wagons with later versions of DC brakes by the shape and placing of the lifting link between the tumbler and the (handbrake) cross-shaft. Unusually, the lifting link passes between the axleguard and the outer face of the wheel.
DC with vacuum brake
Whilst the DC lifting link brake was an improvement on the contemporary Long-lever brake the design had a down side in that including a vacuum cylinder for an arrangement without a cross-shaft was not possible. The GWR re-thought the DC lifting link design to include:-
* a second set of brake blocks for the (previously) un-braked side of the wagon;
* a cross-shaft between the two sets of double-brakes;
* modified the handbrake cross-shaft and the method of connecting that shaft to the brake blocks;
* a vacuum cylinder and lever for operating the brake cross-shaft.
A neat solution to the problem of vacuum-fitted stock and used widely for several years. This design, known to modellers as DCII, is illustrated by wagon 13812, built on Lot 396 to diagram W1 and converted to diagram W5. Note that the handbrake cross-shaft is at the far end of the wagon so the handbrake lever is at the left hand end of the wagon (and non-compliant when the BoT regulations came into force).
Photographer unknown, a copy exists in R Carpenter collection.
DC with right-hand handbrake lever
The GWR Dean-Churchward brake found some favour with the Board of Trade although the DCII design
did not comply in respect of the position of the handbrake levers. As a step towards the BoT wishes the GWR modified the DCII arrangement to put a handbrake lever at opposite corners of the wagon and for those handbrake levers to be connected by a rod running the length of the wagon. This revision to the core DC concept is known to modellers as the DCIII (or cross-corner) brake. Note that the DCIII design did not comply with BoT regulations in one respect... the connection between the two handbrake levers enabled the brake to be released from either side of the wagon irrespective of which lever was used to apply the brake.
The DCIII brake arrangement is illustrated by wagon no. 13983, built on Lot 337 to diagram W1 and
converted to diagram W5 circa 1908. See a previous post for the photograph.
regards, Graham
* long-lever, single double-brake;
* long-lever, single double-brake, BoT 1911 compliant;
* Dean-Churchward, single double brake, lifting link, (DC1 to modellers);
* Dean-Churchward, double-brake, vacuum-fitted (DC2);
* Dean-Churchward, double-brake, cross-corner (DC3).
Given that this summary is based upon photographs then there is a chance that there might be a further variant of the long-lever brake and that is noted in the text below.
Long-lever brakes
The Long-lever brake arrangement was a classic Victorian brake... two brake blocks and a handbrake lever on one side of the wagon. The GWR was perverse as ever and used a brake block which was bolted rigidly to the brake block hanger with the hanger pivoted from a cross-bearer. There was a single V-hanger, between the handbrake lever and the tumbler, with the inner end of the tumbler shaft supported by a round rod which was fixed to the underframe. The description of the brake design as "Long-lever" derives from the wagon wheelbase - the wagon wheelbase of 11'0" meant that the brake push-rods and handbrake lever were longer than used on contemporary open wagons (of 9'0" wheelbase) and that fact dictated a later variant of the Long-lever brake arrangement.
Cheap, cheerful and effective, this brake arrangement is illustrated by wagon no. 38262, built on Old Series Lot 464 to diagram W1. See the previous post for the photograph.
The initial design of Long-lever brake was not compliant with the Board of Trade 1911 regulations regarding the operation of wagon brakes in that the wagon brakes could be applied only from one side of the wagon. Maybe the GWR had exhausted stocks of the necessary components... or maybe the accountants decreed that the cost of compliance needed to be minimised... either way the GWR demonstrated ingenuity and used standard wagon parts when rebuilding the Long-lever wagons to comply with the regulations. The additional V-hanger was offset from the wagon centre-line so that the standard, shorter, push-rod placed the brake block adjacent to the right hand wheel. The extra brake block and handbrake lever are shown in the photo of wagon no. 38901, built on Lot 123 to diagram W1.
Photographer not known, a copy exists in the R Tourret collection.
In the 1930s the GWR rebuilt / converted many cattle wagons for the conveyance of Ale in bottles, barrels and/or casks. Fortunately for us the GWR photographer recorded one of the conversions and the photo shows the "double-brake" side of a BoT compliant Long-lever brake arrangement. Wagon no.38659 was built on Lot 66 to diagram W1.
Photograph by GWR.
Finally, the design of Long-lever brakes originated in the days when the GWR used a rigid mounting of brake blocks to brake hangers. Although not seen in the relatively few photographs of W1 wagons there is a chance that some of the Long-lever wagons might have had the original brake blocks replaced by a more recent type where the brake block is attached to the hangers by a pin rather than a bolt.
Dean-Churchward (DC...) brakes
DC lifting link brake
The initial design of DC brakes provided for a double-brake on one side of the wagon with a handbrake lever on each side of the wagon. The two handbrake levers were mounted on one cross-shaft and hence fell foul of the future BoT regulations in two respects:-
* the BoT required that the brake could be applied from either side of the wagon and that the brake
could be released only from the side where the brake had been applied. The DC design allowed for
the brake to be removed from either side of the wagon.
* the BoT required that the handbrake lever was at the right hand side of the wagon. The DC design
had both handbrake levers at the same end of the wagon because the levers were mounted on the same
shaft.
This design of brake is known to modellers as "DC1" and is illustrated by wagon no. 68409, seen previously. Wagons with DC1 brake can be separated from wagons with later versions of DC brakes by the shape and placing of the lifting link between the tumbler and the (handbrake) cross-shaft. Unusually, the lifting link passes between the axleguard and the outer face of the wheel.
DC with vacuum brake
Whilst the DC lifting link brake was an improvement on the contemporary Long-lever brake the design had a down side in that including a vacuum cylinder for an arrangement without a cross-shaft was not possible. The GWR re-thought the DC lifting link design to include:-
* a second set of brake blocks for the (previously) un-braked side of the wagon;
* a cross-shaft between the two sets of double-brakes;
* modified the handbrake cross-shaft and the method of connecting that shaft to the brake blocks;
* a vacuum cylinder and lever for operating the brake cross-shaft.
A neat solution to the problem of vacuum-fitted stock and used widely for several years. This design, known to modellers as DCII, is illustrated by wagon 13812, built on Lot 396 to diagram W1 and converted to diagram W5. Note that the handbrake cross-shaft is at the far end of the wagon so the handbrake lever is at the left hand end of the wagon (and non-compliant when the BoT regulations came into force).
Photographer unknown, a copy exists in R Carpenter collection.
DC with right-hand handbrake lever
The GWR Dean-Churchward brake found some favour with the Board of Trade although the DCII design
did not comply in respect of the position of the handbrake levers. As a step towards the BoT wishes the GWR modified the DCII arrangement to put a handbrake lever at opposite corners of the wagon and for those handbrake levers to be connected by a rod running the length of the wagon. This revision to the core DC concept is known to modellers as the DCIII (or cross-corner) brake. Note that the DCIII design did not comply with BoT regulations in one respect... the connection between the two handbrake levers enabled the brake to be released from either side of the wagon irrespective of which lever was used to apply the brake.
The DCIII brake arrangement is illustrated by wagon no. 13983, built on Lot 337 to diagram W1 and
converted to diagram W5 circa 1908. See a previous post for the photograph.
regards, Graham
Rob Pulham
Western Thunderer
Having had a brief discussion about the need to drill holes through the ends of .7mm rod to accurate lengths on Heather's RMB thread, tonight I decided to see if I could actually do it.
Using Paul (Locomodels) idea of a pin vice to hold the rod with the flattened ends. I first annealed the flat on each end, then I gripped it in the pin vice with about 10mm protruding.
I then gripped the pin vice horizontally in my small brass jawed vice and rested the flattened end on a small piece of 3/4 ply wood. I managed to punch a dimple in the flattened end and a good few 0.35mm drill bit's later (admittedly cheap and nasty ones!) I had all four pieces for one wagon drilled. I have used nickel rod so far but I may try brass for the rest as it is hard going and with brass being a bit softer it may help the drill bits to last longer.
I soldered a stub of 0.3mm nickel wire in and this is the result.
4 Head bars down 20 more to go........
Using Paul (Locomodels) idea of a pin vice to hold the rod with the flattened ends. I first annealed the flat on each end, then I gripped it in the pin vice with about 10mm protruding.
I then gripped the pin vice horizontally in my small brass jawed vice and rested the flattened end on a small piece of 3/4 ply wood. I managed to punch a dimple in the flattened end and a good few 0.35mm drill bit's later (admittedly cheap and nasty ones!) I had all four pieces for one wagon drilled. I have used nickel rod so far but I may try brass for the rest as it is hard going and with brass being a bit softer it may help the drill bits to last longer.
I soldered a stub of 0.3mm nickel wire in and this is the result.
4 Head bars down 20 more to go........
Rob Pulham
Western Thunderer
Hi Graham,
I measured between the two side rails and cut a length of rod. I flattened one end and then kept snipping and flattening the other until I could work out a consistent length that would allow 1mm at either end to be flattened - I have 47mm in my mind but I will have to check later when I get to the cottage.
Overseer
Western Thunderer
Rob,
Your bars reminded me that I have been looking for inspiration to make similar bars for a double deck steel sheep wagon. I haven't counted yet but one wagon has well over 100 of them, mounted vertically and of differing lengths. Still looking for inspiration but in the meantime found a drawing of the bars while looking for something else. At only 1/2 inch diameter they scale out to 0.26 mm diameter in 1:48. I think I might end up flattening the ends then 'just' rivetting each one instead of trying to drill them. It will be a fiddly jig to hold it all together for soldering. So, good to watch you making yours.
Your bars reminded me that I have been looking for inspiration to make similar bars for a double deck steel sheep wagon. I haven't counted yet but one wagon has well over 100 of them, mounted vertically and of differing lengths. Still looking for inspiration but in the meantime found a drawing of the bars while looking for something else. At only 1/2 inch diameter they scale out to 0.26 mm diameter in 1:48. I think I might end up flattening the ends then 'just' rivetting each one instead of trying to drill them. It will be a fiddly jig to hold it all together for soldering. So, good to watch you making yours.
Rob Pulham
Western Thunderer
Hi Fraser,
You have my deepest sympathy
I have to admit that I would like to see the finished wagon though.
My concern was sticking them to the wagon - they would be quite vulnerable to handling damage which is why I wanted to at least try for a mechanical fixing.
You have my deepest sympathy
I have to admit that I would like to see the finished wagon though.My concern was sticking them to the wagon - they would be quite vulnerable to handling damage which is why I wanted to at least try for a mechanical fixing.
Overseer
Western Thunderer
The effort of drilling and inserting the pins certainly makes sense to provide a solid fixing to the plastic. Don't hold your breath for a finished sheep wagon, it will be some time. I might warm up by building one of the Highland Railway double deck sheep wagons - timber frame with bars simply fitting in holes and planked ends - before tackling the all steel VR ones.
OzzyO
Western Thunderer
Looking at that number of bars (a pint in each one would make you head hurt) I think that I'd make a jig out of aluminium.
Cut the correct number of slots using a 0.01" slitting saw, then at the ends, mill these down to the depth plus say 0.01" of the saw cut at the correct distance between the uprights. you can then lay out all of the head bars and then solder them to the uprights all in one go.
OzzyO.
Overseer
Western Thunderer
Yes, that is what I am thinking of doing. I even have the aluminium in stock. It is making all the bars that is holding progress up. Thinking about it now I have worked out a press tool to ensure the accurate lengths and consistency of the bars but I had better build it an see if it works before theorising any further. This hasn't been a priority project but this discussion is moving it rapidly up the list.
Rob, apologies for veering of topic.
Rob Pulham
Western Thunderer
Not a problem at all, it's all interesting stuff related to modelling and you certainly have me intrigued by your "pres tool"
OzzyO
Western Thunderer
I was just thinking about cutting the bars to the approx lengths, soldering them onto the uprights and then trimming them to length. If after that you wanted the flat ends on the bars pop the strip in the vice and squeeze the ends flat. It may not be correct but if it's on the inside of the van how much would you see?
OzzyO.
Rob Pulham
Western Thunderer
A small amount of progress has taken place - Head space for modelling has been minimal for the last four or five weeks so I haven't done much of anything.
I fitted the partition supports to each of the sides and I have assembled the body on one. Graham ordered various brass sections from Eileens which I collected from them at Cleckheaton. These are to make the framing for inside roofs so I needed to assemble one to determine the interaction between the roof and the body itself - it will be fun because the top framing on the example that I have assembled is far from straight...
Photos to follow.
I fitted the partition supports to each of the sides and I have assembled the body on one. Graham ordered various brass sections from Eileens which I collected from them at Cleckheaton. These are to make the framing for inside roofs so I needed to assemble one to determine the interaction between the roof and the body itself - it will be fun because the top framing on the example that I have assembled is far from straight...
Photos to follow.