Rebuilt Crosti 9f

[Dave Holt]

Mike.
First, may I complement you on using quite fine wire to represent the oil pipes from the lubricators? In full size, these are about 3/8" O/D - quite small even in 7 mm scale and many modellers seem to use far too heavy gauge wire, even on exquisitely built locos.
On the 9F (and other BR Standards), the two lubricators serve completely different purposes, so the pipework is not symmetrical on the two sides of the loco, with several pipes from each lubricator crossing over to the other side of the loco, usually clipped to a frame stretcher or the back face of the smokebox saddle.
The LH lubricator is for cylinder oil, a thick, gooey substance which, in cold weather, needs heating to thin it down enough to flow into the pumps - hence the steam heating supply and drain on the end of the lubricator box. The steam heating pipes are usually slightly bigger than the oil pipe, say 1/2 or 5/8" O/D. The feed pipes from this lubricator supply oil to the atomisers (4 pipes to each side), which are located above the rear of the cylinders, under the running plate. The remaining feeds (2 pipes for each side) supply liquid oil to the piston rod and valve spindle glands on each side.
The RH lubricator supplies motion oil to the valve crosshead guides, slidebars and the axlebox underkeeps on both sides of the loco.
Hope that helps.
Dave.

 

[Richard Gawler]

...and to West Bay.
View attachment 189373

A prototypical buffer stop for the space-starved modeller? I guess it snaps off during an impact and the raised tarmac then does the stopping

 

[spikey faz]

Mike.
First, may I complement you on using quite fine wire to represent the oil pipes from the lubricators? In full size, these are about 3/8" O/D - quite small even in 7 mm scale and many modellers seem to use far too heavy gauge wire, even on exquisitely built locos.
On the 9F (and other BR Standards), the two lubricators serve completely different purposes, so the pipework is not symmetrical on the two sides of the loco, with several pipes from each lubricator crossing over to the other side of the loco, usually clipped to a frame stretcher or the back face of the smokebox saddle.
The LH lubricator is for cylinder oil, a thick, gooey substance which, in cold weather, needs heating to thin it down enough to flow into the pumps - hence the steam heating supply and drain on the end of the lubricator box. The steam heating pipes are usually slightly bigger than the oil pipe, say 1/2 or 5/8" O/D. The feed pipes from this lubricator supply oil to the atomisers (4 pipes to each side), which are located above the rear of the cylinders, under the running plate. The remaining feeds (2 pipes for each side) supply liquid oil to the piston rod and valve spindle glands on each side.
The RH lubricator supplies motion oil to the valve crosshead guides, slidebars and the axlebox underkeeps on both sides of the loco.
Hope that helps.
Dave.

Thanks Dave

0.3mm wire is quite testing on my eyes, so I'm grateful for your comments.

I'll have a closer look at the routing of the lube pipes in due course. I suspect I'll more or less leave matters as they are to preserve my sanity!

If I ever embark on another 9f build I'll have to tap into your knowledge of such things!

Mike

 

[mickoo]

Hi Mike,

Masterpiece Models produce a very good one. Scroll down to the Guilford Show new item.

Latest news

Masterpiece Models produces hand made, 7mm scale 0 gauge model railway locomotives for collectors

www.masterpiecemodels.co.uk

Tim

Expensive but good, from a happy customer

 

[spikey faz]

Expensive but good, from a happy customer

Well, I'm easily into a £grand on my build! Yes, I know it sounds a lot, but it doesn't take long to get there once you factor in the cost of the kit; motor/gearbox; wheels; many Ragstone parts and all the other various nuts/bolts/washers/ bits of rod/metal strip etc. I've long since stopped adding it all up as it takes the fun out of the build!

So I guess a ready-built model is going to have to be a relatively expensive item.

Mike

 

[Osgood]

They do indeed produce a very nice 9F - but I think John and Mickoo were referring to their S7 rolling road that you expressed a wish for

Edit: Utter scribble - I am advised below it was Lee Marsh not Masterpiece who produced a 9F.

 

[daifly]

They do indeed produce a very nice 9F

I think that was Lee Marsh not Masterpiece.
Dave

 

[mickoo]

They do indeed produce a very nice 9F - but I think John and Mickoo were referring to their S7 rolling road that you expressed a wish for

We were indeed

 

[mickoo]

Well, I'm easily into a £grand on my build! Yes, I know it sounds a lot, but it doesn't take long to get there once you factor in the cost of the kit; motor/gearbox; wheels; many Ragstone parts and all the other various nuts/bolts/washers/ bits of rod/metal strip etc. I've long since stopped adding it all up as it takes the fun out of the build!

So I guess a ready-built model is going to have to be a relatively expensive item.

Mike

I was referring to the Masterpiece rolling road, it’s a good piece of kit but expensive.

Regarding modeling costs, that’s often a hidden factor that most write off but you can’t if it’s a commission, that’s when the difficult conversations arise, telling the client that the expensive kit he bought has garbage castings and he needs to spend (sometimes) hundreds more.

It grates me no end having to replace kit castings and quite frankly some kits would fail the sale of goods act, even worse is buying in castings that are only marginally better than the ones you’ve just thrown away.

 

[spikey faz]

We were indeed

Oops! My mistake.

Mike

 

[Osgood]

I think that was Lee Marsh not Masterpiece.
Dave

Oops well spotted Dave - my error and apologies

Your fact-checking warrants a 'No flies on you, are there? - I once said that to a modest old Norfolk boy who quickly replied 'No, but you can see where they've been, can't you'

 

[spikey faz]

I was referring to the Masterpiece rolling road, it’s a good piece of kit but expensive.

Regarding modeling costs, that’s often a hidden factor that most write off but you can’t if it’s a commission, that’s when the difficult conversations arise, telling the client that the expensive kit he bought has garbage castings and he needs to spend (sometimes) hundreds more.

It grates me no end having to replace kit castings and quite frankly some kits would fail the sale of goods act, even worse is buying in castings that are only marginally better than the ones you’ve just thrown away.

I wouldn't mind so much if a manufacturer came clean by stating that said kit is 'an aid to scratch-building a model of (insert prototype) and castings may need to he sourced elsewhere'. It would in theory reduce the price of the kit as well.

In the case of the Crosti Kit I would say that I've replaced 90% of the supplied castings. The etchings on the other hand are quite good. There is the issue with the cab profile being wrong and the alignment of the washout/clamps on the firebox.There is also a bit of dimensional drift with the body/chassis interface at the front of the loco. It's not the end of the world, but I had to undertake some cut 'n shut work.

It's tempting to use the MOK 9f as a starting point for a Crosti, but that would then entail binning the MOK body and scratch-building the Crosti body. Not very cost effective!

Mike

 

[daifly]

It's tempting to use the MOK 9f as a starting point for a Crosti, but that would then entail binning the MOK body and scratch-building the Crosti body. Not very cost effective!

A conversation with Dave Sharp might have been worthwhile, i.e. supply a chassis and tender only.
Dave

 

[spikey faz]

A conversation with Dave Sharp might have been worthwhile, i.e. supply a chassis and tender only.
Dave

Trouble is I tend to end up spending money when I ring Dave! I've already splashed out on his Bulleid Q1 kit and he has recently mentioned he is considering reintroducing his rebuilt Bulleid Pacific kit, which I could be tempted with.

As I'm not an engineer and also don't have access to or understand 3D printing I think the Scorpio/Seven kit is the only practical route (for me) to building a Crosti. I will say though that the 1/12 scale Meccano Crosti I mentioned many moons ago has been considered on more than one occasion.

Mike

 

[mickoo]

Trouble is I tend to end up spending money when I ring Dave! I've already splashed out on his Bulleid Q1 kit and he has recently mentioned he is considering reintroducing his rebuilt Bulleid Pacific kit, which I could be tempted with.

As I'm not an engineer and also don't have access to or understand 3D printing I think the Scorpio/Seven kit is the only practical route (for me) to building a Crosti. I will say though that the 1/12 scale Meccano Crosti I mentioned many moons ago has been considered on more than one occasion.

Mike

I hadn't actually considered 3D printing a Crosti boiler and preheater (not that I need one at this moment in time) or even a later modified one, wouldn't be any more different than the Garratt rotary bunker I did; the firebox you could do as well.

As for the cab, I've heard the same and seen many Scorpio BR standards suffer badly in this area, a throw back from the kits origins I believe, but I've also heard the 9F wasn't a buy in from elsewhere. Maybe (speculative conjecture) they copied the cab etches off the Britannia or DoG which are known to be out of kilter.

It's also hard to judge a kits pedigree just from photos and other peoples builds, that's no slight on any one who builds kits as I struggle with some aspects that others do not and vice versa. A recent example was a Scorpio Queen for sale on Steamlines and badly built, a very poor example to go by. On the other hand I had Nicks Queen through here to deliver to the customer at my end of the country and took some studio shots; it looked perfect and a really nice model.

 

[spikey faz]

It's also hard to judge a kits pedigree just from photos and other peoples builds, that's no slight on any one who builds kits as I struggle with some aspects that others do not and vice versa. A recent example was a Scorpio Queen for sale on Steamlines and badly built, a very poor example to go by. On the other hand I had Nicks Queen through here to deliver to the customer at my end of the country and took some studio shots; it looked perfect and a really nice model.

I hope my modelling efforts haven't put anyone off from getting stuck into one of these kits!!

Mike

 

[mickoo]

I hope my modelling efforts haven't put anyone off from getting stuck into one of these kits!!

Mike

I can't see why not, there is no right or wrong, just different. I've seen your scratch built larger scale tank engines and your skill set is not lacking by any stretch of anyone's imagination, a couple I'll willingly admit to coveting quite badly

More importantly, who are you building it for, yourself or the forum? People often forget that aspect and frequently ask others what they think. So long as you're happy with it then everyone else's view within reason is not worth breaking into a sweat over.

Your model, your trainset, your life, live it.....from what I've seen and read here, you're doing pretty well at that already, kudos

 

[spikey faz]

I can't see why not, there is no right or wrong, just different. I've seen your scratch built larger scale tank engines and your skill set is not lacking by any stretch of anyone's imagination, a couple I'll willingly admit to coveting quite badly

More importantly, who are you building it for, yourself or the forum? People often forget that aspect and frequently ask others what they think. So long as you're happy with it then everyone else's view within reason is not worth breaking into a sweat over.

Your model, your trainset, your life, live it.....from what I've seen and read here, you're doing pretty well at that already, kudos

Thank you.
I think I'm a bit guilty of overthinking things! I shall carry on enjoying what I do as well as all the other members' projects being posted here.
If you head over to Area 51 I've just popped some pictures in of another of my G-Scale projects.

All the best
Mike

 

[michael mott]

I was referring to the Masterpiece rolling road, it’s a good piece of kit but expensive.

Regarding modeling costs, that’s often a hidden factor that most write off but you can’t if it’s a commission, that’s when the difficult conversations arise, telling the client that the expensive kit he bought has garbage castings and he needs to spend (sometimes) hundreds more.

It grates me no end having to replace kit castings and quite frankly some kits would fail the sale of goods act, even worse is buying in castings that are only marginally better than the ones you’ve just thrown away.

Given that I seem to see this complaint more than once in a while, I do wonder why the kit manufacturers don’t heed these complaints. I would expect that good business practices would address this issue from a customer perspective. It appears that the problem is foisted off onto those expert builders who have to put up with less than best practice on the part of manufacturers.
Michael

 

[oldravendale]

Hi Michael.

You are, of course, entirely correct. Some castings and fittings are so poor as to be unusable and there can be no excuse for that. However, as far as kit producers are concerned there's a quality/cost equation. Can something of good quality be produced at reasonable cost? The answer is, as we know from these pages, that it's an equation which can be made to work, but the kits which are available and which are delivered with usable castings tend to be on the more expensive end of the market. Even then they may not be perfect as perfection arguably requires bespoke items often produced as "one offs" - the casting processes are inevitably a compromise to some extent but a 3D print can be accurate to the nth degree. However (as a generalisation) 3D prints are expensive and would add ££££s to the cost of a kit.

Having built a couple of kits by MOK I have to say that I was able to use all the castings although they all had to be fettled to some degree. But those kits are at the top end and can be compared with kits costing half the price but will be (again a sweeping generalisation) half the quality.

Basically you get what you pay for. If you are willing to shell out for bespoke castings most kit producers will sell you "etch only". The cost for the bespoke items may well make your eyes water.

Brian