JimG
Western Thunderer
Scott,
It's going quite well. I've almost got one finished but another project has had to take precedence for the last week or so, but I should be able to show something this week.
Jim
Re: Rolling Stock for Banavie Road
- Thread starter JimG
- Start date
Scott,
It's going quite well. I've almost got one finished but another project has had to take precedence for the last week or so, but I should be able to show something this week.
Jim
JimG
Western Thunderer
Here's the latest on the elephant in the room. 
I finally got a set of bits for the brake end birdcage made which would fit together well. I think I am up to the fifth version of the main assembly.
I then started by making up the main body of the coach on its 60 thou Plastikard base
The frame parts for the latest version of the birdcage are to the fore.
Then the birdcage frame was fitted to the end
.... and then a bit of bracing fitted to tie in the tops of the sides to the birdcage
Then the outer face of the end was fitted
Then the ducket sides were fitted in between the end pieces such that the ends of these pieces form the panelling on the edges of the ducket sides.
The is the upper section of the side being fitted and the nearer edge is probably about one thou out which a light rub with fine sandpaper should correct. The farther joint is just about spot on. Getting these joints correct is what has caused most of the fiddling around. I'm finding out that milling Plastikard is not an exact science when it comes to making cabinet maker standard joints.
With the lower part of the ducket side, the lower panelling line provides a good disguise for the joint and it is only necessary to make sure that the panelling protrudes by the desired amount - although that can be a bit of a fiddle as well.
The "E" on the side denotes the sixth version of the sides - the previous five versions only differed by a few thou in width and would have been difficult to differentiate otherwise.
To the bottom right of the ducket you can see my design error - the small gap left where the inner front end of the birdcage only starts at the top of the floor. I shall fill this with filler - I don't feel like going back almost to square one and re-designing the end to avoid this.
And to end, two shots of the completed body, awaiting the roof.
At this moment, the roof is clamped in the former and should be ready in a day or two and I'll post a pic with it fitted.
The delicate cream coloured Plastikard is not a new product from David White - just 35 years of maturing on a shelf in my (various) workshops.
Jim.
I finally got a set of bits for the brake end birdcage made which would fit together well. I think I am up to the fifth version of the main assembly.
I then started by making up the main body of the coach on its 60 thou Plastikard base
The frame parts for the latest version of the birdcage are to the fore.
Then the birdcage frame was fitted to the end
.... and then a bit of bracing fitted to tie in the tops of the sides to the birdcage
Then the outer face of the end was fitted
Then the ducket sides were fitted in between the end pieces such that the ends of these pieces form the panelling on the edges of the ducket sides.
The is the upper section of the side being fitted and the nearer edge is probably about one thou out which a light rub with fine sandpaper should correct. The farther joint is just about spot on. Getting these joints correct is what has caused most of the fiddling around. I'm finding out that milling Plastikard is not an exact science when it comes to making cabinet maker standard joints.
With the lower part of the ducket side, the lower panelling line provides a good disguise for the joint and it is only necessary to make sure that the panelling protrudes by the desired amount - although that can be a bit of a fiddle as well.
The "E" on the side denotes the sixth version of the sides - the previous five versions only differed by a few thou in width and would have been difficult to differentiate otherwise.
To the bottom right of the ducket you can see my design error - the small gap left where the inner front end of the birdcage only starts at the top of the floor. I shall fill this with filler - I don't feel like going back almost to square one and re-designing the end to avoid this.
And to end, two shots of the completed body, awaiting the roof.
At this moment, the roof is clamped in the former and should be ready in a day or two and I'll post a pic with it fitted.
The delicate cream coloured Plastikard is not a new product from David White - just 35 years of maturing on a shelf in my (various) workshops.
Jim.
BrushType4
Western Thunderer
Excellent work Jim, it's really coming on now. 
JimG
Western Thunderer
Superb
It won't be long till you have the the full suburban set finished.
At least the bodies.
Then it will on to the underframes. And then I'll have to add all the details. 
But at least all the panelling has been done which was the main consideration. I'll re-visit the NB brake end with the experience I've had with the Caledonian ones and I'll get a set of bits up to you.Jim.
ScottW
Western Thunderer
Then it will on to the underframes. And then I'll have to add all the details.
I feel your pain Jim. It's one of those tedious jobs that has to be done; all those grab handles, door handles and hinges.
What you going to do about the break gear? In the past Bill Bedford produced some etched clasp breaks for me in S but I couldn't be sure that he still does them, I don't remember the S-Scale Society ever producing any.
Do I also take it that you will be fitting your own sprung W irons?
Thanks for that I'll look forward to receiving them. I have yet to get round to starting the coaches as I'm trying to clear away some Caley wagons I started building about six years ago. When I get the bodies finished there going back on the shelf as I'm keen to make a start on the coaches.
Scott
JimG
Western Thunderer
I have really enjoyed watching this come together and im more than a little envious of your mill
And I covet your laser machine on occasions.
But I doubt if I could ever justify the outlay. I'm having enough problems rationalising a £2.5K CNC mill to make a few coaches. But it is good fun. Jim.
JimG
Western Thunderer
Scott,
I'm looking at etching all my own fittings and brake gear. It will probably be worth it for ten coaches and John in Parts Department might be interested in some.
Yes. I'm going to make some minor alterations and get the sheet re-done. I could modify the ones already etched but I would prefer to make the adjustments and get them right. I might be able to use the originals under some wagons since the Caledonian coach "W" irons were quite small and possibly the same as their wagon ones.
I'll see if I can get something done in the next week. I've just been adjusting the milling machine and finding out the joys of adjusting tapered gibs. I'm used to the more traditional type of gib adjustment and I've spent a good few hours finding out the quirks of something new.
Jim.
I feel your pain Jim. It's one of those tedious jobs that has to be done; all those grab handles, door handles and hinges.
What you going to do about the break gear? In the past Bill Bedford produced some etched clasp breaks for me in S but I couldn't be sure that he still does them, I don't remember the S-Scale Society ever producing any.
I'm looking at etching all my own fittings and brake gear. It will probably be worth it for ten coaches and John in Parts Department might be interested in some.
Yes. I'm going to make some minor alterations and get the sheet re-done. I could modify the ones already etched but I would prefer to make the adjustments and get them right. I might be able to use the originals under some wagons since the Caledonian coach "W" irons were quite small and possibly the same as their wagon ones.
I'll see if I can get something done in the next week. I've just been adjusting the milling machine and finding out the joys of adjusting tapered gibs. I'm used to the more traditional type of gib adjustment and I've spent a good few hours finding out the quirks of something new.
Jim.
28ten
Guv'nor
Well have to do swapsies one weekendAnd I covet your laser machine on occasions.
Jim.
I think that it would be quicker doing ten coaches with a laser, but it would involve gluing overlays etc so you win there, but you score a big plus on being able to handle metal sheet. You can rationalise the cost by looking at coach kits costing £100 each and if you want ten, you have paid for over 1/3 of the machine.
JimG
Western Thunderer
Well have to do swapsies one weekend
I think that it would be quicker doing ten coaches with a laser, but it would involve gluing overlays etc so you win there, but you score a big plus on being able to handle metal sheet. You can rationalise the cost by looking at coach kits costing £100 each and if you want ten, you have paid for over 1/3 of the machine.
One big benefit that I find is that if I make a cock up on any part - as one does
- then it is basically just a matter of slapping a few pence worth of Plastikard on the milling table and re-doing the parts . Maybe that's the attraction of scratchbuilding - albeit with some help. I do remember a picture in (IIRC) Model Railways many years ago of the pile of rejected parts for a scratchbuilt locomotive - the waste bin in my workshop looks much the same with many parts of coach sides. Jim.
Simon
Flying Squad
One big benefit that I find is that if I make a cock up on any part - as one does
Jim.
I remember that, it was in Model Railways and the writer was scratch building "Bamburgh" the Manning Wardle L Class that ran on the North Sunderland Railway, a good article as so many were in that magazine.
In fact it's my favourite Bathtime read - you can't beat a bit of "Bazzing Around" in the bath
Simon
ScottW
Western Thunderer
I do remember a picture in (IIRC) Model Railways many years ago of the pile of rejected parts for a scratchbuilt locomotive - the waste bin in my workshop looks much the same with many parts of coach sides.
This is one side of modelling you very seldom hear of, maybe if people were to hear/see more of the rejects produced beginners would be spurred into having a go. It would certainly be interesting to see the waste bin belonging to a professional modeller.
Scott
Dog Star
Western Thunderer
MRJ article on building the signal box for Pontrilas (aka Bucks Hill)... pile of rejected window frames, arranged artistically, by a well-known modeller of S&T items.
JimG
Western Thunderer
I finally got the NB version of the birdcage built this evening. I've had an eventful time producing the parts and have had to have several goes to get all the necessary bits - mostly down to my finger trouble.
The Drummond NB version of the brake end was somewhat more complex than his later Caledonian version due, probably, to his use of an elliptical roof. Here are all the bits in the foreground with a pile of some of the rejects in the background. 
I've now thought out a better way of putting the parts together and this was the guinea pig run to see if it was indeed better. My previous battle with the Caledonian end was getting the fit of the ducket sides correct between the ends - this was after having built up the inner frame, then sticking the outer parts to it. The problem of the fit depended on the thickness 0f the inner material being exactly correct and that is a bit difficult to achieve with my machining methods at the moment. I then thought about fitting the inner side and the two ducket sides together, then fitting the outer assembly - inner and outer parts - to the ducket sides, then once they have set, glue up the joints on the inner frame. All I would have to ensure was that the inner frame depth dimension was slightly undersize - by a thou or two - so that all would fit well.
So the ducket sides were glued to the inner face also ensuring that the inner side became the panelling on the ducket side.
Then with the two ducket sides fitted, the outer end parts were joined together and prepared for the joining.
With the top parts of the duckets joined
And then with the lower parts glued. This was quite fiddly to do with a lot of clamping by digits and fingernails.. I think I will try and pre-shape the ducket sides to make fitting to the "S" shape a bit easier and less of a trauma. It has turned out quite well but I think I can make the method a bit easier and less stressful. Fitting temporary window glazing - possible bits of metal strip - will help in stopping the glazing slots closing up.
Beside the NB end is the end of the Caledonian coach with its untrimmed roof in place. Old Dugald certainly made quite a few design changes when he moved to St. Rollox from Cowlairs.
And I am now using my new camera to take these shots and it is a much more pleasant experience than that with its predecessor. It also has a 24X optical zoom with digital zoom extensions and with image stabilisation so this next shot was taken seven feet away, handheld, at 28X zoom.
With all the recent discussions about cameras, this one is a Panasonic FZ150 - a bridge camera rather than a DSLR - with a 24X optical zoom and the ability to take HD movies. It has a 200+ page manual so I haven't waded through all the facilities yet. I only got it today and I'm just using the idiot's automatic settings at the moment.
Jim.
The Drummond NB version of the brake end was somewhat more complex than his later Caledonian version due, probably, to his use of an elliptical roof. Here are all the bits in the foreground with a pile of some of the rejects in the background.
I've now thought out a better way of putting the parts together and this was the guinea pig run to see if it was indeed better. My previous battle with the Caledonian end was getting the fit of the ducket sides correct between the ends - this was after having built up the inner frame, then sticking the outer parts to it. The problem of the fit depended on the thickness 0f the inner material being exactly correct and that is a bit difficult to achieve with my machining methods at the moment. I then thought about fitting the inner side and the two ducket sides together, then fitting the outer assembly - inner and outer parts - to the ducket sides, then once they have set, glue up the joints on the inner frame. All I would have to ensure was that the inner frame depth dimension was slightly undersize - by a thou or two - so that all would fit well.
So the ducket sides were glued to the inner face also ensuring that the inner side became the panelling on the ducket side.
Then with the two ducket sides fitted, the outer end parts were joined together and prepared for the joining.
With the top parts of the duckets joined
And then with the lower parts glued. This was quite fiddly to do with a lot of clamping by digits and fingernails.
. I think I will try and pre-shape the ducket sides to make fitting to the "S" shape a bit easier and less of a trauma. It has turned out quite well but I think I can make the method a bit easier and less stressful. Fitting temporary window glazing - possible bits of metal strip - will help in stopping the glazing slots closing up.Beside the NB end is the end of the Caledonian coach with its untrimmed roof in place. Old Dugald certainly made quite a few design changes when he moved to St. Rollox from Cowlairs.
And I am now using my new camera to take these shots and it is a much more pleasant experience than that with its predecessor. It also has a 24X optical zoom with digital zoom extensions and with image stabilisation so this next shot was taken seven feet away, handheld, at 28X zoom.
With all the recent discussions about cameras, this one is a Panasonic FZ150 - a bridge camera rather than a DSLR - with a 24X optical zoom and the ability to take HD movies. It has a 200+ page manual so I haven't waded through all the facilities yet. I only got it today and I'm just using the idiot's automatic settings at the moment.
Jim.
JimG
Western Thunderer
Wonderful stuff, Jim. And the camerawork's not bad too. You've got those sweeping curves to a tee.... cracking!
It's quite satisfying to have conquered the brake ends. Scott Willis and I have been discussing the problem since the middle of last year and I've been finding excuses to make other things more important in the interim.
The camera, so far, feels very good. The main problem with my previous camera was the dodgy auto-focus, which is definitely not a problem with the FZ150. This was the major criterion when searching for a new camera and the Panasonic camera seemed to come out best in this respect in a lot of reviews. It's going to take me a while to try out all the other facilities on offer.
Jim.
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Jim, Lovely work in Plasticard on the coaches, very inspiring .
Re cameras, auto focus can be a bear, my 40D for the love of everything will not focus on EWS red at night!, GBRf, Freightliner, everything else are all ok, but point it at an EWS at night and it hunts like mad, something to do with the color and sodium lights I presume, very bizzare but once recognised, easy to work around. I had a friend visit to do some port side shots too, his 7D did the same, must be a Canon thing?. Shooting further away and zooming certainly gives a better 'feel' to the subject matter.
Kindest
.Re cameras, auto focus can be a bear, my 40D for the love of everything will not focus on EWS red at night!, GBRf, Freightliner, everything else are all ok, but point it at an EWS at night and it hunts like mad, something to do with the color and sodium lights I presume, very bizzare but once recognised, easy to work around. I had a friend visit to do some port side shots too, his 7D did the same, must be a Canon thing?. Shooting further away and zooming certainly gives a better 'feel' to the subject matter.
Kindest
JimG
Western Thunderer
Mick,
I'm still getting used to the beast and it is a huge improvement over the predecessor. Apart from the excellent autofocus, it also allows me to choose shutter speed, aperture and focus quite easily from the back screen, so I could go back to operating the camera like my film days.
I've got a Canon 35mm SLR and a Mamiaflex 2 1/4 square which haven't done very much for a long time. For "haven't done very much" read "nothing". Jim.