Heather Kay
Western Thunderer
Cheers Warren! I shall try that tomorrow. 
7mm On Heather's Workbench - Dean Triplets
- Thread starter Heather Kay
- Start date
Rob Pulham
Western Thunderer
Hi Heather,
For mahogany windows try first painting them black, then ( I kid you not!paint them in LMS crimson lake.
You will be amazed at how good they look
Thanks for that tip Warren, I have a few LMS coaches in the stash which that will come in useful on
Heather Kay
Western Thunderer
Sadly, I don't have a suitable LMS lake in stock, so I had a think.
These coaches are quite late in their lives, and the window and drop light frames had been painted for some time. I opted to do a reasonably dark wash of Humbrol 113 over the drop lights, and neat 113 over the main windows. I think it gives enough contrast between the cream, black and brown, and the client will be more than happy.
Next stage, final cleaning up and retouching, let it all dry nice and hard, then get some Humbrol gloss varnish over everything. That will tend to yellow the colours, like the real thing. Then, lining and lettering. A nice stash of transfer and detail bits arrived from CPL this morning.
These coaches are quite late in their lives, and the window and drop light frames had been painted for some time. I opted to do a reasonably dark wash of Humbrol 113 over the drop lights, and neat 113 over the main windows. I think it gives enough contrast between the cream, black and brown, and the client will be more than happy.
Next stage, final cleaning up and retouching, let it all dry nice and hard, then get some Humbrol gloss varnish over everything. That will tend to yellow the colours, like the real thing. Then, lining and lettering. A nice stash of transfer and detail bits arrived from CPL this morning.
Heather Kay
Western Thunderer
Having had a coat of gloss varnish, which in left to harden for 24 hours or so, I set about lining today.
I know it's cheating, but I don't think metallic gold paint scales nicely. I chose Humbrol 94, which is a sort of pale yellow ochre. With hindsight, 63 might have been better, as the shade I've used is almost exactly the same as the GWR cream. Go figure.
Here's the brake third. Because this, along with the full brake, had been built and stripped of bad paint, there were some surface finish issues. Despite some rubbing down and careful priming there are still glue blobs and various marks which catch the bow pen as you run it along the panelling. One thing I have learned is you can never get it spot on with the pen. You always need to tidy things up with a brush, some thinners and a cocktail stick. You might just be able to make out some marks on the brake end lower panels. I hadn't spotted some grollies, and I've had to rub down post-varnish. I'll give that some careful brushwork before the lettering gets done, and then it can all be levelled off with a satin varnish.
The full brake is beginning to look a bit tidier. Those lookouts are a right royal pain the a**e to line round! especially if the builder has overdone the solvent cement and let the panelling start to dissolve…
Finally, the compo. I've made a start with painting interior panels. I'm not sure of the exact shades I should be using, but it felt about right. I may dry brush a little grain on, with a satin varnish topcoat, but then again I may not. I plan to use real glass for the windows. After all the effort with the livery would be spoiled by using the rather scruffy plastiglaze stuff.
Smoking compartments: I can't see much evidence for dedicated compartments for these vehicles. I guess they assumed that everyone and their dog puffed like chimneys and didn't bother to assign one.
I know it's cheating, but I don't think metallic gold paint scales nicely. I chose Humbrol 94, which is a sort of pale yellow ochre. With hindsight, 63 might have been better, as the shade I've used is almost exactly the same as the GWR cream. Go figure.
Here's the brake third. Because this, along with the full brake, had been built and stripped of bad paint, there were some surface finish issues. Despite some rubbing down and careful priming there are still glue blobs and various marks which catch the bow pen as you run it along the panelling. One thing I have learned is you can never get it spot on with the pen. You always need to tidy things up with a brush, some thinners and a cocktail stick. You might just be able to make out some marks on the brake end lower panels. I hadn't spotted some grollies, and I've had to rub down post-varnish. I'll give that some careful brushwork before the lettering gets done, and then it can all be levelled off with a satin varnish.
The full brake is beginning to look a bit tidier. Those lookouts are a right royal pain the a**e to line round! especially if the builder has overdone the solvent cement and let the panelling start to dissolve…
Finally, the compo. I've made a start with painting interior panels. I'm not sure of the exact shades I should be using, but it felt about right. I may dry brush a little grain on, with a satin varnish topcoat, but then again I may not. I plan to use real glass for the windows. After all the effort with the livery would be spoiled by using the rather scruffy plastiglaze stuff.
Smoking compartments: I can't see much evidence for dedicated compartments for these vehicles. I guess they assumed that everyone and their dog puffed like chimneys and didn't bother to assign one.
Heather Kay
Western Thunderer
Plucking up the courage to get on wih the transfers, I set about the end details on the compo, and the roof detailing for both the compo and the full brake.
I've never been a great fan of Slater's microrod, but I thought I'd give it go for the gas lighting pipework. It turned out better than I hoped, though it does tend to split if you force it into too much of a bend.
The brake and compo roofs are now painted. I'm running out of excuses not to do the transfers…
I've never been a great fan of Slater's microrod, but I thought I'd give it go for the gas lighting pipework. It turned out better than I hoped, though it does tend to split if you force it into too much of a bend.
The brake and compo roofs are now painted. I'm running out of excuses not to do the transfers…
Heather Kay
Western Thunderer
It's transfer day, and nothing to do with the Premiership as far as I can tell.
Here we have, from top to bottom, the V5, U4 and T34.
All lettering components go in the brown panels. From my reading of the varying sources, the lettering layout pretty much follows the earlier lake livery style. So, compartment class in the waist panel below each door window, "guard" under a guard's door window, "luggage" on the right-hand door panel of a pair. GWR is as near to the centre of the coach as possible, with the garter crest and supporting shields either side at varying distances depending on the panelling.
Now, that's all well and good for the brake third and compo. I've even got images I can follow for these two. For the full brake, all I can find is the earlier 1907 livery.
What's causing noodle-scratching is where the 1927 garter crest will go on the full brake. The obvious place would be the lookout, but then it wouldn't be sat flat - thanks to the previous builder not quite smoothing things over. I would prefer to put it on the guard's door panel, but then he'd have GWR instead of "guard" under his window. I can find no evidence the crest would be placed on a cream panel, either.
So, what to do? Well, I'll get on with the other two coaches while I ponder alternatives. What does the team think?
Here we have, from top to bottom, the V5, U4 and T34.
All lettering components go in the brown panels. From my reading of the varying sources, the lettering layout pretty much follows the earlier lake livery style. So, compartment class in the waist panel below each door window, "guard" under a guard's door window, "luggage" on the right-hand door panel of a pair. GWR is as near to the centre of the coach as possible, with the garter crest and supporting shields either side at varying distances depending on the panelling.
Now, that's all well and good for the brake third and compo. I've even got images I can follow for these two. For the full brake, all I can find is the earlier 1907 livery.
What's causing noodle-scratching is where the 1927 garter crest will go on the full brake. The obvious place would be the lookout, but then it wouldn't be sat flat - thanks to the previous builder not quite smoothing things over. I would prefer to put it on the guard's door panel, but then he'd have GWR instead of "guard" under his window. I can find no evidence the crest would be placed on a cream panel, either.
So, what to do? Well, I'll get on with the other two coaches while I ponder alternatives. What does the team think?
Heather Kay
Western Thunderer
Just had a thought: knowing the garter crest is offset on the T34 so it falls between the two inner compartments, perhaps it would be offset to the longer side of the guard's lookout, between his door and the luggage doors.
It's a thought.
After a very helpful conversation with Mr Beare, Basingstoke Branch, Heather Kay Research Centre, we've worked out exactly what - at least as far as a model is concerned - the V5 livery layout is.
http://www.gwr.org.uk/galbailey9.html
Third image down.
While I am unhappy to be modelling from a model, I understand there is a photo of a real V5, or close, wearing very much the same livery.
It's a thought.
After a very helpful conversation with Mr Beare, Basingstoke Branch, Heather Kay Research Centre, we've worked out exactly what - at least as far as a model is concerned - the V5 livery layout is.
http://www.gwr.org.uk/galbailey9.html
Third image down.
While I am unhappy to be modelling from a model, I understand there is a photo of a real V5, or close, wearing very much the same livery.
Dog Star
Western Thunderer
Heather is finishing some Slater's GWR 4-wheel coaches from the Dean era and Heather's client wants the coaches to represent circa early to mid 1930s. At that period the GWR would not be wanting to spend serious money on keeping up appearances of stock that was out in the boondocks and so there is a very fair chance that the coaches were dressed in a fetching "worn 1922-27" livery. The hypothesis is that the carriages had not been painted since circa 1925-6 and hence the carriages carried the 1922 "garter crest" rather than the 1927 "twin coat of arms".
Heather alludes to a photo of a prototype Passenger Brake Van - this pikkie is included in "A Great Western Gallery" published by the Great Western Society. The photo shows the guard's lookout of a vehicle with the branding "Paddington and Midlands Stores Van" on the vertical panel of the lookout and the coat of arms on the lower panel which curves inwards to meet the bottomside member. The clarity of the picture is not sufficient to decide if the vehicle is 4/6 wheel and from the "V" diagram series or a bogie vehicle and hence from the "K" diagram series.
So there is a precedent for finishing the V5 PBV in a style similar to the model which is shown in the GWR modelling site.
Heather Kay
Western Thunderer
There has been a hiatus. This is due to transfer application. It takes a while. I also didn't get much work done yesterday due to various domestic things. Anyhow…
Painting, lettering and internal fixtures have been sorted out. The lettering has had a protective varnish applied, Humbrol Satin Cote using a round sable brush. The reason for brushing is chiefly laziness, as I can't be bothered to sort the airbrush out for this, and also the brushing will impart a little texture to the surface which will help in making the coaches look tired but cared for during the weathering to come.
The roofs have been posed, as have bodies where they haven't been fixed to underframes yet. Some end detailing still to finish on the T34 and V5, plus the glazing and luggage door bars. That's later today.
Here's the V5, looking smart.
The U4 composite, with a number chosen from the range where second class had been demoted to third (1907 on) but the coach hadn't been converted to all third by the early 1930s - which a lot of them had been.
The T34, with the GWR squeezed into the smallest waist panel on the entire coach!
I've reached the stage of thinking I'm nearly finished, then remembering something small I need to do. I ought to have a list.
Painting, lettering and internal fixtures have been sorted out. The lettering has had a protective varnish applied, Humbrol Satin Cote using a round sable brush. The reason for brushing is chiefly laziness, as I can't be bothered to sort the airbrush out for this, and also the brushing will impart a little texture to the surface which will help in making the coaches look tired but cared for during the weathering to come.
The roofs have been posed, as have bodies where they haven't been fixed to underframes yet. Some end detailing still to finish on the T34 and V5, plus the glazing and luggage door bars. That's later today.
Here's the V5, looking smart.
The U4 composite, with a number chosen from the range where second class had been demoted to third (1907 on) but the coach hadn't been converted to all third by the early 1930s - which a lot of them had been.
The T34, with the GWR squeezed into the smallest waist panel on the entire coach!
I've reached the stage of thinking I'm nearly finished, then remembering something small I need to do. I ought to have a list.
Heather Kay
Western Thunderer
Heather Kay
Western Thunderer
Glazing done. Letting the glue dry, then I'll fit the roofs properly. There'll be some paint retouching, and the compo and brake third will have their bodies fitted to the underframes.
Then I shall consider weathering.
Ah, yes, and all the door furniture and the end handrails. The to do list keeps growing!
Len Cattley
Western Thunderer
Those coaches look fantastic Heather. 
Len
Len
Heather Kay
Western Thunderer
Everyone will be pleased to know these coaches will be making an appearance at the S7 Mark open day, albeit briefly.
You can then see just how bad they look in real life.
You can then see just how bad they look in real life.
Heather Kay
Western Thunderer
Door furniture now fitted. I only managed to break a couple of panes in the process.
Heather Kay
Western Thunderer
Nearly there!
The full brake now has the roof fitted. I am waiting for the glue to set before the next phase, which will be weathering the roofs. I will do that before I tackle the sides.
You will note the missing heraldic supporters. I botched them during the lettering phase - they were the wrong way round and spirit based transfers can't be gently lifted and replaced. I'm waiting on a new set to arrive from CPL.
The composite needs a little bit of fixing to replace the damaged gas light pipes at one end.
The brake third doesn't appear to need anything done.
Having said that, all three now need their end handrails sorting out, final final final paint retouching and subtle weathering. Then I shall deem them complete and ready for their official portraits to be taken.
Delivery is this Saturday, but they need to be finished by Thursday as we are travelling on Friday.
The full brake now has the roof fitted. I am waiting for the glue to set before the next phase, which will be weathering the roofs. I will do that before I tackle the sides.
You will note the missing heraldic supporters. I botched them during the lettering phase - they were the wrong way round and spirit based transfers can't be gently lifted and replaced. I'm waiting on a new set to arrive from CPL.
The composite needs a little bit of fixing to replace the damaged gas light pipes at one end.
The brake third doesn't appear to need anything done.
Having said that, all three now need their end handrails sorting out, final final final paint retouching and subtle weathering. Then I shall deem them complete and ready for their official portraits to be taken.
Delivery is this Saturday, but they need to be finished by Thursday as we are travelling on Friday.
Eastsidepilot
Western Thunderer
Superb work Heather
Col.
Col.
Heather Kay
Western Thunderer
Thanks everyone! These little coaches have turned out pretty well, especially when you consider the state the brake third was in when I got it.
Things aren't perfect, but I always like to think I get better with each model I make.
Things aren't perfect, but I always like to think I get better with each model I make.
Peter Bunce
Active Member
Hi Heather,
Those coaches look superb - congratulations!
Re Slater's rod there are two sorts of it - you have the old style in a red/brown colour - the other and present I think colour is a dull sand colour - that is much better and does not split when cut. I think its softer, but is can snap with tight bends - use a pair of round nose pliers to assist it to behave.
Yours Peter.
Those coaches look superb - congratulations!
Re Slater's rod there are two sorts of it - you have the old style in a red/brown colour - the other and present I think colour is a dull sand colour - that is much better and does not split when cut. I think its softer, but is can snap with tight bends - use a pair of round nose pliers to assist it to behave.
Yours Peter.