Heather Kay
Western Thunderer
Hi Len. I think I have the same drawings! Mick was very kind and sent me copies, too!
7mm On Heather's Workbench - Aintree Iron: an Austerity adventure
alcazar
Guest
Could you e-mail me a set please? I've PM'd you my e-mail address.Hi Heather love your build,I have some drawings of the engine and tender that came from Mick Nicholson of this parish if he doesn't mind I could email them to you tommorow?
Len
Len Cattley
Western Thunderer
Done, let me know if you get them? Sorry for hi-jacking your thread Heather.
Steph Dale
Western Thunderer
Heather,
Be wary of using the preserved 2-8-0 as a reference, it has (shall we say) an 'interesting' history, having seen service in the Netherlands and Sweden. When working on the SJ the tender was cut down to 6-wheel and it was given an enclosed cab. I suspect various lubrication, feed and brake items would have been replaced for working in the harsh conditions. And at the very least we know the cab, tender and vacuum brake system must all be new...
Such are the perils of using preserved locos for reference!
Steph
See here: http://s25.photobucket.com/user/bengts/library/Anglok/G-/G11?sort=3&page=1
Be wary of using the preserved 2-8-0 as a reference, it has (shall we say) an 'interesting' history, having seen service in the Netherlands and Sweden. When working on the SJ the tender was cut down to 6-wheel and it was given an enclosed cab. I suspect various lubrication, feed and brake items would have been replaced for working in the harsh conditions. And at the very least we know the cab, tender and vacuum brake system must all be new...
Such are the perils of using preserved locos for reference!
Steph
See here: http://s25.photobucket.com/user/bengts/library/Anglok/G-/G11?sort=3&page=1
Heather Kay
Western Thunderer
Thanks for the warning, Steph. I realise that particular loco has had an interesting career. I have photos of the actual loco the client wants, which helps.
What I really want is a clear idea of the pipe runs for the injectors. Dave's shots help a bit by showing the ones that run up and under the running plate.
What I really want is a clear idea of the pipe runs for the injectors. Dave's shots help a bit by showing the ones that run up and under the running plate.
Heather Kay
Western Thunderer
After a couple of days working on other builds, I felt in the mood for fabricating the front steps.
Like the tender steps, these are etched as a flat frame with the bottom step, to which you add two steps once folded up. Things are a little flimsy until the pair of steps are fitted.
Here you can see how the steps fix to the frames. The top legs fit into etched slots, with a pair of slots in the pony wheel arch. The instructions recommend leaving off fitting until later in the build, and I was planning on doing that. However, once soldered in place things are pretty solid. Provided I am careful, they ought to survive.
Thoughts have now turned to the under-cab injectors. I think they will need some careful study of drawings and photos, some daylight and a clearer head than I have right now!
Like the tender steps, these are etched as a flat frame with the bottom step, to which you add two steps once folded up. Things are a little flimsy until the pair of steps are fitted.
Here you can see how the steps fix to the frames. The top legs fit into etched slots, with a pair of slots in the pony wheel arch. The instructions recommend leaving off fitting until later in the build, and I was planning on doing that. However, once soldered in place things are pretty solid. Provided I am careful, they ought to survive.
Thoughts have now turned to the under-cab injectors. I think they will need some careful study of drawings and photos, some daylight and a clearer head than I have right now!
Heather Kay
Western Thunderer
Perhaps, but only one type in this kit. Happily, they match the ones in the real engine the client sent photos of.
Today's task is to unravel the mysteries of the injector pipework.
To aid my pencil doodlings, a copy of the GA, the "instructions", and my reference Bachmann 4mm scale model. Dave B's photos will also be studied, as well as the usual references I have laying about.
Heather Kay
Western Thunderer
Well, after some head scratching and a couple of false starts, here's what I ended up with for the driver's side injector.
There's a little tidying to do, but it's mostly there. I don't really know what all the pipes do, but the one I've left long, disappearing out of frame to the right, is the feed water from the tender. On the real thing it ducks down and passes below the drag beam. Until I've built the frames, it's going to have to remain long and stuck out in the fresh air.
If I'd thought about it sooner, I should have knocked up the cab and passed the pipe associated with the cab controls up through the floor in the right place. Ho-hum. What I've done is drill a hole in the floor to act as an extra anchor to hold the injector in place as a help to the bracket itself, and cut the wire off at floor level.
One more to go. I will do a before and after sequence to show what modifications I made to the provided casting.
There's a little tidying to do, but it's mostly there. I don't really know what all the pipes do, but the one I've left long, disappearing out of frame to the right, is the feed water from the tender. On the real thing it ducks down and passes below the drag beam. Until I've built the frames, it's going to have to remain long and stuck out in the fresh air.
If I'd thought about it sooner, I should have knocked up the cab and passed the pipe associated with the cab controls up through the floor in the right place. Ho-hum. What I've done is drill a hole in the floor to act as an extra anchor to hold the injector in place as a help to the bracket itself, and cut the wire off at floor level.
One more to go. I will do a before and after sequence to show what modifications I made to the provided casting.
Heather Kay
Western Thunderer
For the fireman's side injector, I remembered to take some photos to show what I did. On the WDs, both injectors are the same, not handed like on many peacetime designs. I guess this was for economy and ease of maintenance.
This is the injector casting, as supplied by JLTRT. The curved pipe is the drain, which is not how it should be for the WD. It's a bit weedy, and not the right shape.
I've changed the position so you can see the casting more or less in the orientation it will be on the loco. The bottom union is the pipe to the front of the loco. Next, on the same side as the last, is the tender feed, and the last at the top is the cab control pipe.
Before we tackle the casting and plumbing, a 1mm hole has to be drilled in the etched bracket. This is for the casting peg to fit into. To get the injector in the right place, the hole is dead centre between the two pushed out rivets in the centre of the bracket. I'm sure there should be more bracketry to hold things in place, but without better references I have gone with what I have.
The first mod is to cut off the cast drain pipe. It's useful if you can avoid removing the cast bolt detail on the flange. Centre punch and drill out as far as possible, so the wire pipe detail fits in the hole. For the record, the main pipework was made from 1.3mm wire, while the feed to the front of the loco was 1mm wire from the kit box. The pipe diameters were guesstimated from the GA at between 2.5 and 3in.
The remaining holes were opened up and made deeper.
Some careful soldering later, and all the pipework is in place. By ensuring the holes are deep enough, there's enough wire soldered in to not drop out when bending to form the complex shapes later.
I found it easiest to form the drain pipe first, as it's the shortest! Next, I fashioned the tender feed pipe and left it over length more or less where the drag beam sits. The cab control pipe was formed next, so it passed into the cab floor. Once this is done, and the injector attached to the bracket, the final pipe shaped can be formed.
A hole was drilled in the cab floor so the control pipe wire can be formed up and passed into it. This acts as an extra support for the casting. I tinned the casting mounting peg and the bracket, and once I was happy the injector sat square, applied the iron. I am now ready to shape the pipe that goes forward.
There are two support brackets holding this pipe at the edge of the running plate. There is also a pipe joint. 12 and 14BA nuts were drilled out to slide over the wire, then tack solder in place - enough to give an impression of a union. The brackets were short lengths of 0.7mm brass wire, filed to give two flat sides, bent over and then fitted over the pipe, soldered to the underside of the running plate. The final shapes were formed in the end of the pipe to be lost in the murk by the frames and behind the wheels.
Phew!
This is the injector casting, as supplied by JLTRT. The curved pipe is the drain, which is not how it should be for the WD. It's a bit weedy, and not the right shape.
I've changed the position so you can see the casting more or less in the orientation it will be on the loco. The bottom union is the pipe to the front of the loco. Next, on the same side as the last, is the tender feed, and the last at the top is the cab control pipe.
Before we tackle the casting and plumbing, a 1mm hole has to be drilled in the etched bracket. This is for the casting peg to fit into. To get the injector in the right place, the hole is dead centre between the two pushed out rivets in the centre of the bracket. I'm sure there should be more bracketry to hold things in place, but without better references I have gone with what I have.
The first mod is to cut off the cast drain pipe. It's useful if you can avoid removing the cast bolt detail on the flange. Centre punch and drill out as far as possible, so the wire pipe detail fits in the hole. For the record, the main pipework was made from 1.3mm wire, while the feed to the front of the loco was 1mm wire from the kit box. The pipe diameters were guesstimated from the GA at between 2.5 and 3in.
The remaining holes were opened up and made deeper.
Some careful soldering later, and all the pipework is in place. By ensuring the holes are deep enough, there's enough wire soldered in to not drop out when bending to form the complex shapes later.
I found it easiest to form the drain pipe first, as it's the shortest! Next, I fashioned the tender feed pipe and left it over length more or less where the drag beam sits. The cab control pipe was formed next, so it passed into the cab floor. Once this is done, and the injector attached to the bracket, the final pipe shaped can be formed.
A hole was drilled in the cab floor so the control pipe wire can be formed up and passed into it. This acts as an extra support for the casting. I tinned the casting mounting peg and the bracket, and once I was happy the injector sat square, applied the iron. I am now ready to shape the pipe that goes forward.
There are two support brackets holding this pipe at the edge of the running plate. There is also a pipe joint. 12 and 14BA nuts were drilled out to slide over the wire, then tack solder in place - enough to give an impression of a union. The brackets were short lengths of 0.7mm brass wire, filed to give two flat sides, bent over and then fitted over the pipe, soldered to the underside of the running plate. The final shapes were formed in the end of the pipe to be lost in the murk by the frames and behind the wheels.
Phew!
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Heather Kay
Western Thunderer
Copper it is. It's a lot easier to form into the bends for this kind of job. Brass rod of this diameter would be quite a challenge, I think.
Best Beloved got a huge stock of various reels ages ago for his electronic projects. It's handy for modelling, too.
Best Beloved got a huge stock of various reels ages ago for his electronic projects. It's handy for modelling, too.
Heather Kay
Western Thunderer
With the slight RMB holdup, the WD found its way back to the bench this afternoon.
Making up the cab, which is essentially a three-sided box with half-etched detail overlays, took a while. This is probably down to me fastidiously filing back the etched cusps to ensure a good fit all round.
Rolling the roof to shape also took a while, thanks to the double-curved shape. To help, I fitted the frame at the back of the cab, above the windows, and then took my time with the Yellow Pages and the rolling pin. I selected Roofing Contractors as an apt section to use!
I am now wondering how I can represent the cab windows in the slid open position. The kit sort of assumes they will be filling the hole in the cab side. Perhaps I'll just go with the flow on that. There is some further detailing around the cab entrance rebates, but then I guess I'm into fitting out the backhead and other driving controls.
Making up the cab, which is essentially a three-sided box with half-etched detail overlays, took a while. This is probably down to me fastidiously filing back the etched cusps to ensure a good fit all round.
Rolling the roof to shape also took a while, thanks to the double-curved shape. To help, I fitted the frame at the back of the cab, above the windows, and then took my time with the Yellow Pages and the rolling pin. I selected Roofing Contractors as an apt section to use!
I am now wondering how I can represent the cab windows in the slid open position. The kit sort of assumes they will be filling the hole in the cab side. Perhaps I'll just go with the flow on that. There is some further detailing around the cab entrance rebates, but then I guess I'm into fitting out the backhead and other driving controls.
Heather Kay
Western Thunderer
I most certainly did.
I need to remember the cab shot shows the preserved loco, with added steam heating equipment.
I need to remember the cab shot shows the preserved loco, with added steam heating equipment.
Heather Kay
Western Thunderer
Today's shenanigans involved the reverser.
A rather pleasing confection of whitemetal and brass castings, the reverser connects - as you can see - to the large fork in turn joined to the reverser pull rod. Having carefully set the reversing mechanism up so it was all adjustable until a point where I could fix it in place, I wanted to ensure the reverser itself was also adjustable. Some time was spent filing and fettling so the fork trunnions can be slid up and down within the casing.
Lucky I did that work, really.
Here is a trial fitting session. First thing, the etched depression in the cab floor doesn't fit the base of the casting. Well, it does, but it then means the whole mechanism is set too far forward and prevents the cab being fitted. After some checking, I worked out I could file a little rebate on the front of the base so it could still sit in the depression but overhang to clear the cab front sheet.
Next I checked how it all looked with the reversing rod in place. I don't know these things but I assume if the reverser mechansim is tight up at the handle end the loco is in full reverse. As you can see from the photo, this means to move into forward gear the valve gear end would have to push right through the running plate…
The only solution I can see is to either shorten the pull rod, or the end of the fork, to give a little more movement. Before I do that, though, I shall study some more images.
A rather pleasing confection of whitemetal and brass castings, the reverser connects - as you can see - to the large fork in turn joined to the reverser pull rod. Having carefully set the reversing mechanism up so it was all adjustable until a point where I could fix it in place, I wanted to ensure the reverser itself was also adjustable. Some time was spent filing and fettling so the fork trunnions can be slid up and down within the casing.
Lucky I did that work, really.
Here is a trial fitting session. First thing, the etched depression in the cab floor doesn't fit the base of the casting. Well, it does, but it then means the whole mechanism is set too far forward and prevents the cab being fitted. After some checking, I worked out I could file a little rebate on the front of the base so it could still sit in the depression but overhang to clear the cab front sheet.
Next I checked how it all looked with the reversing rod in place. I don't know these things but I assume if the reverser mechansim is tight up at the handle end the loco is in full reverse. As you can see from the photo, this means to move into forward gear the valve gear end would have to push right through the running plate…
The only solution I can see is to either shorten the pull rod, or the end of the fork, to give a little more movement. Before I do that, though, I shall study some more images.
OzzyO
Western Thunderer
Hello Heather,
one of the best ways to check that would be with the frames in place and set the expansion link at its mid point then you can set the lifting link to set the reach rod and reverser box to its mid point.
Sorry I've not explained it that well.
OzzyO.
PS. I've now had a look at Dave's photos and looking at this photo it looks like the loco is just about in full forward gear when the above footplate lifting links are close to the running plate. So it looks like you will have to shorten the reach rod a bit 1 or 2mm.
one of the best ways to check that would be with the frames in place and set the expansion link at its mid point then you can set the lifting link to set the reach rod and reverser box to its mid point.
Sorry I've not explained it that well.
OzzyO.
PS. I've now had a look at Dave's photos and looking at this photo it looks like the loco is just about in full forward gear when the above footplate lifting links are close to the running plate. So it looks like you will have to shorten the reach rod a bit 1 or 2mm.
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Heather Kay
Western Thunderer
Hi Paul. I have come to a similar conclusion. I like your idea of leaving things off until the frames and gear come together.
I was hoping to make some progress yesterday, but after a visit to a friend in the morning I found myself nodding off on the sofa. I can't work out why this might be, apart from old age sneaking up on me.
Anyway, a slow start today, with some further cab detailing. The door returns, and a rivet strip have been added. I've sourced and prepared some ash screens for the side windows, as the loco I'm building was so fitted. I have cleaned up a slight misregister on the backhead casting, and fitted the seats in the cab.
So, windows…
The window frames are folded up with a representation of the lower slide rail. The intention is they are simply fitted as in this photo, in the closed position. The thing is, most locos are depicted with the windows open, and with the crew with elbows in the breeze.
By swapping the etched parts side for side, I could fit them like this photo. I would be happy with the compromise of not having to cut about the etched parts. I'd like to ask the assembled WT hive mind its opinion on the matter. Either way, I'm not fitting the frames at this stage, as some cab painting might be sensible before that happens.
The next stage of the instructions moves on to the boiler and fittings. I hope the glue is in the mood for working today.
I was hoping to make some progress yesterday, but after a visit to a friend in the morning I found myself nodding off on the sofa. I can't work out why this might be, apart from old age sneaking up on me.
Anyway, a slow start today, with some further cab detailing. The door returns, and a rivet strip have been added. I've sourced and prepared some ash screens for the side windows, as the loco I'm building was so fitted. I have cleaned up a slight misregister on the backhead casting, and fitted the seats in the cab.
So, windows…
The window frames are folded up with a representation of the lower slide rail. The intention is they are simply fitted as in this photo, in the closed position. The thing is, most locos are depicted with the windows open, and with the crew with elbows in the breeze.
By swapping the etched parts side for side, I could fit them like this photo. I would be happy with the compromise of not having to cut about the etched parts. I'd like to ask the assembled WT hive mind its opinion on the matter. Either way, I'm not fitting the frames at this stage, as some cab painting might be sensible before that happens.
The next stage of the instructions moves on to the boiler and fittings. I hope the glue is in the mood for working today.
Heather Kay
Western Thunderer
Ha! Just when I thought it would be plain sailing, here comes the cosmic spanner chucker again!
The history of this kit is obscure, but I think my client acquired it from a well-known online auction site. To be fair, there's everything in the box - aside from the bits outlined earlier in this thread - and in some cases, twice as many bits. If anyone wants a spare set of WD frames, let me know!
Anyway, I am building a model to represent 90643, based in Aintree. Of course, the boiler in the box is the NE version, with the larger washout plugs and cranked handrail and ejector pipe.
Not to worry. A nice chat with Laurie and I'll send this one back. Then he will know which one I really want!
So, no boiler detailing at the moment then. Perhaps now might be a good time to tackle the frames.
The history of this kit is obscure, but I think my client acquired it from a well-known online auction site. To be fair, there's everything in the box - aside from the bits outlined earlier in this thread - and in some cases, twice as many bits. If anyone wants a spare set of WD frames, let me know!
Anyway, I am building a model to represent 90643, based in Aintree. Of course, the boiler in the box is the NE version, with the larger washout plugs and cranked handrail and ejector pipe.
Not to worry. A nice chat with Laurie and I'll send this one back. Then he will know which one I really want!
So, no boiler detailing at the moment then. Perhaps now might be a good time to tackle the frames.