O&EM workbench - a trio of PO's

[76043]

Ok, so I realised the push rods were stuck on the wrong way round. Highly annoying having spent ages looking at my prototype pics.

Minor surgery has been performed and they are now the right way round.

I've read countless other threads where others have done the same, so am proud to join the push rods round the wrong way club. Doh!

Tony

 

[76043]

So I finally finished off the chassis on the V14 van. Push rods round the right way, nickle silver tie bars and w-irons are removable. Next up, couplings and buffers, I am hoping to modify the PECO buffers to be sprung with internal springs and not use the balancing wire/arm method they use.

The bodywork is pretty much ready to glue together, so along with a removable roof, should be finished fairly soon. The last job will be to make the headstock ends angled as the original builder chose the straight end headstocks.

Tony

 

[76043]

The PECO GWR V14 van is coming on. Sides and ends on, bracing in, roof on and removable. But I noticed the bar above the doors is missing, so I made a new one with the four distinct bolts on it. Buffers have been converted to internal sprung by putting a thread on the shank and finding a suitable spring for the coupling hooks.

Tony

 

[76043]

I thought I'd have a wee review of what I've done so far in O gauge. Not enough room for the lowmac though. This is roughly 25% of my shelf Queen's, so I'm feeling good that shelf Queen's can be tackled in a relatively short time when there's a global pandemic on!

Tony

 

[76043]

Working on the doors for the V14 van. The PECO van has working hinges, which results in no hinge detail and rounded ends to the doors to allow them to open. So styrene filled the rounded ends and made the hinges. Using the Proxxon drill to press out the rivet detail.
Tony

 

[76043]

The V14 is coming on. Got the doors on with the hinge detail and the vac pipes on with pipes to the vacuum cylinder. I also glued on the brass buffer shanks. Now just the headstock detailing to do and it's done and ready for painting.

Tony

 

[76043]

The LMS and GWR vans are now ready for painting when the weather improves. Couplings will be instanter when finally fitted. The LMS van has got the correct pattern buffers from Invertrain. The GWR van has the wrong pattern brake gear loops and the headstock details are lacking rivets, but life is too short to worry.
Tony

 

[76043]

I'm going to repurpose this thread to encompass my EM wanderings as well as O gauge, hence the new title.

I now seem to have lots of locos on my EM workbench, a Bachmann 08, two panniers, Finecast/Judith Edge N5, 14xx and a Hornby Ruston 48DS.



The Bachmann 08 has had the Markits cranks blackened and are being refitted.

My first question on compensation is for a newby like me about the 14xx. Can it be compensated with the middle axle fixed with the two outer axles rocking? I've read the CLAG treatise and could 'rocking beam' the coupled axles, but wanted to keep one axle fixed because I've never done this before.

Don't all shout at once, please form an orderly queue....

Cheers
Tony

 

[AJC]

Yes, I’m sure you can. If the weight is mostly over the coupled wheelbase then it shouldn’t give any problems, you just need sufficient to keep the trailing wheel on the rails and without danger of lifting the driven (centre?) axle off the railhead. Whether that’s ‘proper’ I don’t know!

Adam

EDIT: the loco lineup is a common problem. My shelf currently has a B4 - which works! - a Jinty, and Thomas, waiting on pickups, and a Judith Edge Sentinel that needs me to be in the mood to solder..

 

[76043]

Thank you Adam. I kind of was imagining the compensation like a 2-2-2 is this regard.

A friend recently sent me this meme. Sums it up really.

Tony

 

[JimG]

My first question on compensation is for a newby like me about the 14xx. Can it be compensated with the middle axle fixed with the two outer axles rocking? I've read the CLAG treatise and could 'rocking beam' the coupled axles, but wanted to keep one axle fixed because I've never done this before.

That's not going to work well as a compensated chassis. The preferred way would be to make one of the outer axles fixed and compensate the other two axles with longitudinal beams between the bearings and a central lateral beam between the centres of the two longitudinal beams with the lateral beam pivotted on its centre. The Gauge 0 Guild manual has a good section on compensation.

https://www.gaugeoguild.com/manual/03_5_9_Compensation.pdf#:~:text=The%20whole%20purpose%20of%20compensation%20is%20to%20mount,take%20this%20into%20account%20when%20designing%20the%20chassis.

The CLAG discussions deal with chassis springing which is a different kettle of fish.

Jim.

PS. I've just read the GOG Manual and it doesn't actually cover the 0-6-0. But if you use the driving axles in the 4-6-0 configuration on Fig. 9.5, that will do.

 

[simond]

For a 14xx which has a big fat cab, and a skinny smokebox, I’d recommend twin beams to equalise the driving axles, these, of course, leave room for the gearbox on the middle axle, and I’d put a fulcrum bearing in the middle of the radial axle under the cab. I did this on my Springside one (built some 20 years back) as the kit arrangement was utterly useless (Driving axles rigid in frames, radial axle sprung!)

 

[JimG]

For a 14xx which has a big fat cab, and a skinny smokebox, I’d recommend twin beams to equalise the driving axles, these, of course, leave room for the gearbox on the middle axle, and I’d put a fulcrum bearing in the middle of the radial axle under the cab. I did this on my Springside one (built some 20 years back) as the kit arrangement was utterly useless (Driving axles rigid in frames, radial axle sprung!)

My mistake that I picked on the picture of the 0-6-0 for my response rather than the 14XX noted in the text.

The late Stan Garlick built an 0-4-2T in S scale many years ago and it was featured in the MRN in the early 60s. He applied compensation in the way Simon has outlined but an additional feature was that he built the frames as sandwiches with two thin outer layers and a thicker middle layer. The longitudinal equalising levers between the driving axles were "hidden" in the middle layers of the frames which left the space between the frames clear - very handy if you want to fit inside motion.

Jim.

 

[simond]

I’d suggest that “twin beam” equalisation is the way to go for any loco with four drivers and a carrying axle or bogie, so 0-4-2, 4-4-0 and their mirror images. The bogies can obviously be equalised to a single spherical pivot point, and the single axle can have a central fulcrum bearing as noted above. The beams leave room for the drive, and inside motion if desired as Jim notes.

I‘ve never built an Atlantic, but I suspect I’d treat it as a 4-4-0 and take the radial axle along for the ride as a weighted pony truck with no control at all, as at least that would not diminish the traction.

having said all this, I built my Dukedog sprung, and played around with the springs - very stiff in the leading axle & less so in the trailing from memory - and weight everywhere I could get it in - in order to get to a five-coach haulage capacity. When initially tested, it barely pulled its own tender for wheelspin!

 

[Phil O]

My initiation into chassis building was to build the Perseverance 14XX chassis kit with the driving axles compensated, the gearbox driving the leading axle. The important bit was to make sure that there was enough space for the gearbox to move up and down freely, it took some trial and error to get it to run smoothly.

 

[76043]

Thank you all for you thoughts on the 0-4-2 compensation. I'm still tempted to make the centre axle fixed, especially after Phil's reply that it took some time. This is my first effort in compensation, so treating it like an 0-4-0 with a trailing axle makes sense to me.

Thanks again all.
Tony

 

[simond]

Tony,

I really really recommend you don’t do that.

If you fix the middle axle, it must not be in contact with the rails or your loco will wobble like a nodding dog on a see-saw. If you do that, the loco will in effect be an 0-2-2, with haulage capacity to match.

if you can balance it without the -2 trailing axle, it will work, but the cab & bunker will need to be very light, and the smokebox filled with depleted uranium to get it to balance.





This is the underside of my Springside 48xx. One of the equalisation beams is just visible - there’s an highlighted edge just below (well above) the pick-up for the front left wheel. The beams are thin brass, a rectangle with a pair of “lumps” sticking out below, into which the bearings are soldered, the frames are slotted to allow the bearings room to rise and fall. The equalisation bearings pivot on the brass rod near the top of the frames and visible just behind the brake cross beam.

The trailing axle rocks on the central fulcrum, the bearings run in slots in the Springside frames.

There are pickups on the inside of the flanges on the trailing axle, so that’s not an issue, and it has very adequate haulage capacity.

it really isn’t much extra work, and if you do it now, you won’t have to do what I did - take it all apart and fix it, because it was truly useless as Springside designed it.

enjoy, either way
Simon

 

[oldravendale]

it really isn’t much extra work, and if you do it now, you won’t have to do what I did - take it all apart and fix it, because it was truly useless as Springside designed it.

enjoy, either way
Simon

Thanks Simon - that explains why mine doesn't work....

Brian

 

[simond]

It’s twenty-odd years old, and unfortunately, I don’t have the drawings/sketches I made (assuming I did actually sketch it before marking & cutting out)

I guess I could make a sketch if it would help.

 

[oldravendale]

Thank you Simon. That's very kind. However, I've only kept it because it's the first kit I ever built and I'm almost certain to never try to run it again. In any case I'm fully committed to 7mm now.

Brian