4mm Monks: perhaps NOT a Classic Minories - for a grandchild.

Allen M

Western Thunderer
Anyway, the bad news, why does there always have to be bad news too(?), was that there is a hump in one of the roads on the first board where it approaches the soldered screws. It’s the middle road in this picture:
Hi Jonte
Using screws like that is very strong but virtually impossible to adjust. My method has been a PCB sleeper (or a brass pad under each rail) which should be slightly less thick than the sleepers and has the screw heads 'get at able'. It can then be packed to the correct height and adjusted in the future if necessary. A bit of track paint will hide it just as well as your screws.
Regards
Allen
 

Lyndhurstman

Western Thunderer
A beautiful day as forecasted arrived, fellow Westerners, so an early start was made before it got a little too warm out there.

Not too good a start in fact, as a wire became detached from a socket on the first board, which will feed the latest board, as I threaded it through those perpendicular holes. A brief examination revealed that my soldered joint was still in tact; the broken wire piece to which it was attached had given up the ghost and fractured. A hazard, I guess of using old equipment :(

Anyway, one of the benefits of good weather is that I can solder outside, so once the iron was set up, a new wire was made good and fast and linked to the Bus.

Here are the feeds from board one to two in situ:

View attachment 148584

Certainly not exhibition standard but will do for what we want :thumbs:

In the end, it was a mixed bag of results, fellow Westerners.

The good news was that the feeds had worked and my only engine in ownership dawdled delightfully towards each of the isolated ends; only they didn’t isolate :(

View attachment 148585

8F heading precariously towards the edge before my sudden intervention.

Thankfully,I’m still quite quick on the draw and managed to grasp my pride and joy before it took a tumble. Although the engine hadn’t taken a tumble, my heart certainly did, and myriad thoughts raced through my brain as to what might be the cause(s). Was it a property of DCC that it carried current differently? (Ridiculous!); was I sold the correct switches, after all, they all look the same? (The fact that these had only two tags instead of three like all the other types of used sank this idea). And so it went. The thought of more weight lifting with those unwieldy boards and perhaps having to pull the wiring to the switches apart to investigate the cause didn’t sit well with me :( Then it suddenly occurred to me that perhaps the tender had pick ups? Removing the tender revealed that I was right. In all honesty, it’s unlikely I’ll be using large tender locos such as this so I can’t see it being too much of a problem, and if I do, I might just have to consider removing the pick ups: or just concentrate :rolleyes:

Here’s the loco paused at the isolated end of the same road as the first picture; this time without tender:

View attachment 148586

Anyway, the bad news, why does there always have to be bad news too(?), was that there is a hump in one of the roads on the first board where it approaches the soldered screws. It’s the middle road in this picture:

View attachment 148587

It’s strikingly obvious when the loco reverses from the latest board to the previous one, although the long wheel base of the 8F exacerbates the case somewhat. But I can’t live with that, I’m afraid. It’s going to have to go; which will mean lifting the track and probably removing at least one set of screws to introduce a gradual slope which I can see being the only cure :(

I left my den with a heavy heart, I’m sad to report, fellow Westerners.
Coupled with this, at least two of the points have blades that protrude, one of which can’t be cured with deft use of a Swiss file, and will require the addition of a scrap piece of brass etch I saved from that Finney kit, although why I should have to make good brand new points is beyond me.

Really feel like starting again with new boards and say Code 75, but this time, purchasing the track in person instead via post so that I can examine them before purchase. And I’d definitely go back to laying the track directly to the baseboard, to reduce the risk of any undue ‘incline’ (I only did so to accommodate those darned pillars; I could easily have remade them :().

Anyway, time to stop licking my wounds and sort out this mess.

Bye for now, folks.

Jonte

You’re getting there, @jonte (now where have I heard that before ). Baseboard joints can be tricky, and given you have a fair few, one duff one ain’t so bad. All power for your eventual overcoming of these molehills (have you tried a good thwack with the flat of a spade? ).

Keep on keeping on.

Cheers

Jan
 

jonte

Western Thunderer
With the old adage ‘no point crying over spilt milk’ reverberating around the space between my ears, fellow Westerners, I made a start trying to put some wrongs to rights.

Firstly, I forgot to mention in my earlier post that while conducting my tests, one of the existing short lengths of track on board one had ‘died’. Thinking that traces of primer were still clinging to the head of the rails on either one or both side of said section, I gave the area a darned good polishing, but all to no avail. So that was my first point of call. Turning the board over, I soon discovered why:

0E9A65CC-2404-4684-BB5D-8CBE16C40C5A.jpeg

I think I pulled too hard earlier with the pliers when removing a clip that was needed for a new area of wiring elsewhere that was failing to cling on. An easy fix. :)

So now it was into that more pressing of tasks: removal of the hump.

You may recall in my earlier post that to the eye - or mine at least - it wasn’t too pronounced, but it became so when the 8F passed over it in the direction of the fiddleyard. I tried it on a fast speed and was lucky that it didn’t leave the track :eek: Why didn’t I just build it myself….. Yeah, I know, I’m beginning to sound like a broken record :rolleyes:

So it was time to make a start, by removing the short section of track from Board one. Thankfully, this was only one of two sections that I didn’t glue down, figuring that being soldered one end and joined to a glued down point the other would be sufficient. A bit of luck for once! So turning the board over once more, I removed the set of feeds from the bus, before turning it the right way up once more and pulling out the track pins in one or two places. Whilst doing this, the soldering iron had become nice n warm, so with a dash of flux on the joint and a dab of solder on the iron, the joint was weakened and the rails prised up from the brass screws one at a time. Then it was just a case of lifting one end and sliding it free of the joiners at the point end, before removing the screws which still displayed enough slot to just about engage my screwdriver. Thankfully quite a simple task, but those soldered joints were solid, which is good to know for the future :thumbs: But that was about the only head start I’d get, as the next section on board two was glued fast with a concentrated solution of pva. That said, it was eventually partially removed by sliding an old Stanley blade underneath the sleepers which thankfully didn’t damage the cork below. Here’s the result:

AB09E7A6-45DA-474B-8CD0-CC171FF20FF2.jpeg

At this point I decided to see what was going on. There was definitely a step caused by the ply inserts at the ends of the adjoining boards causing a gradient:

90D295BA-B2B1-43C3-B0B7-78F883E97F92.jpeg

Not the clearest of photos but I think you can just make out where the rule touches the ply to the right hand side creating a gradient.

Then it was just a case of rubbing, first with sandpaper which made no difference to the ply, then with the coarser purple papered stuff that I can never remember the name of which wasn’t much better, so out came a piece of what appeared to be section of paper from an industrial grade sander that I recall hiring several years ago, although what for exactly, I can’t quite remember :confused: Now, that did make a difference:

63BDEB37-221E-4C06-9DF9-241766157E3E.jpeg

It makes it look like the adjacent track has a shouldered edge :D

To see what it looked like, I connected up a piece of sacrificial track which I pinned down in places. It showed that on one side, the track was floating, but on the other, it was seated on the newly altered ply surface. I took a couple of photos to show the situation, but it was difficult to get in either the phone or iPad to get a decent shot. Here they are anyway for the record:

F988672C-5419-4E05-B48C-708868DEC8DC.jpeg 13D77029-4929-4EBF-88BF-DEDB7857B703.jpeg


Yeah, they’re absolutely useless, fellow Westerners; I offer my sincerest apologies. I guess photography’s not my bag either.

The benefit of this is that the gradient finishes further back than before on board two, thereby all things being equal, it should reduce the angle and hopefully that ‘drop’ in height causing the annoying see saw effect of the loco. The proud edge of the ply has also gone.

Next, I’ll gauge off a ‘horizontal’ from adjacent tracks, and slip card supports under the rails so that stock doesn’t attain a jaunty angle when traversing; that’s all I’d need :mad:. Once satisfied in the lie of the sacrificial track, I’ll lift it, screw in some new brass screws in the appropriate places, then replace the track. All sounds too easy, doesn’t it? What’s the betting there’s a fly in the ointment. There appear to be no free lunches with this build.

But it will have to wait, as when I last left my den, my specs were beginning to slip down the bridge of my nose due to perspiration caused by the heat.

No, I think a cool beer is now the order of the day.

Cheers for now.

Jonte
 

jonte

Western Thunderer
Hi Jonte
Using screws like that is very strong but virtually impossible to adjust. My method has been a PCB sleeper (or a brass pad under each rail) which should be slightly less thick than the sleepers and has the screw heads 'get at able'. It can then be packed to the correct height and adjusted in the future if necessary. A bit of track paint will hide it just as well as your screws.
Regards
Allen

Hi Allen, and many thanks for sharing your wisdom :thumbs:

I’d intended to use PCB sleepers originally, however, I didn’t have enough left over. Being tight, I didn’t fancy forking out fifteen or so quid when I only needed a couple of lengths, so sought out a cheaper alternative in the screws which I’ve used before. That’ll teach me for being tight, hey ;)

I don’t know if you read my last post, but surprisingly - to me anyway - the screws were still easy to remove even though most of the slot had become solder filled. They’d be just as easy to adjust.

After the weekend’s endeavour, I’m rather hoping that the boards should now be captive, perhaps the only movement being expansion of the ply joints themselves, although in an insulated environment they will remain. For belt and braces, I’ll be employing a dodge kindly sent to me by @Yorkshire Dave several posts back, which involves shaping the rails either side of the joint to counter any untoward movement. It would have been achieved by now if it hadn’t been for all the pitfalls :(

Ah well, onwards and upwards :)

Cheers

Jonte
 

jonte

Western Thunderer
You’re getting there, @jonte (now where have I heard that before ). Baseboard joints can be tricky, and given you have a fair few, one duff one ain’t so bad. All power for your eventual overcoming of these molehills (have you tried a good thwack with the flat of a spade? ).

Keep on keeping on.

Cheers

Jan

:D

Thanks for the moral support, Jan :thumbs:

That did cheer me up, although if things continue in this vein, I might be taking a spade to the layout :mad:

Think this afternoon’s amendments should sort out the hump, then it’s just a case of filling in one or two holes, fitting some missing sleepers, fixing some dodgy switch rails, knocking up some cassettes and wiring to same…….ad infinitum!

Thanks for popping in, Jan

It’s good to hear from you again.

Jon
 

jonte

Western Thunderer
This evening, I’m pleased to bring you good news for once, fellow Westerners.

After much endeavour at an agonisingly slow pace over the last twenty four hours or so, I’m relieved that the annoying hump is no more and that the 8F has given up the see saw motion of before:

20BED1B2-BFEF-4274-B270-5AC449837BC4.jpeg

Ican tidy up the joints another time; today was simply a case of getting things in order.

However, this has caused me to look at the other two roads in a new light. The adjacent road does show a hump now that I’m looking for it, but for some reason, the motion is smooth. Hmm, perhaps I should leave it well alone.

The end road however, is a different kettle of fish, and although I don’t relish the prospect of going through all this again, I would dearly like traffic to run through as smoothly as the amended road. Only problem in this case is that it involves the removal of a point :( If I did, and again I don’t relish the prospect, I think I’d replace that point which was itself replaced originally due to a bend in its form - but it was purchased during the pandemic when beggars couldn’t be choosers - and it then replaced the point that occupied its current position because that point developed a broken spring. A broken spring in a brand new point, I ask you :eek:

Anyway, I shaln’t spoil the mood, and will just be thankful for small mercies :thumbs:

Best

Jonte
 

simond

Western Thunderer
Jon,

If you have/buy/borrow a 12” file, you can “top” the rails to take off any humps, won’t do much for the hollows, of course.

I think you’ve sorted your joints, fingers crossed!
Simon
 

jonte

Western Thunderer
Jon,

If you have/buy/borrow a 12” file, you can “top” the rails to take off any humps, won’t do much for the hollows, of course.

I think you’ve sorted your joints, fingers crossed!
Simon

Hi Simon, and thanks for your interest as always.

If you have a look at those awful photos I posted a couple of posts back, you might be able to see just how much of the ply ends I had to remove to reduce the angle of the slope and thereby removing the hump. I’m afraid this job may be a dash too much even for the 12 incher :(

Will re-examine with fresh eyes :thumbs:

Best

Jon
 

jonte

Western Thunderer
Been at a bit of a lost end today, fellow Westerners, as my daughter was admitted to hospital last evening where unfortunately she remains in the pangs of a long labour. Consequently, been hanging on for texts/phone calls re progress throughout the day but not a lot more in terms of developments, I’m afraid. Our bundle of joy’s arrival by stork remains imminent ;)

I have been turning some of my attention to the layout though, if only to distract myself.

A quick test with single coach attached to the 8F revealed that the ‘inclines’ on the other two tracks adjacent to the divide, weren’t as bad as I recalled. However, they still weren’t perfect and the point on the outside track was one which wasn’t in tip-top condition as I’ve mentioned, so a decision to address both roads as per the first was made, and a replacement point ordered. A short trip to my local model shop saw the purchase of another length of flexitrack, as I wanted to replace the existing approach track on the middle road as I’d done on the first track.

Following the same procedure as before, the original track was removed (the section on the second board was just partially prised away from the board) and replaced with a fresh section cut to length after the area was sanded down. The existing screws were removed at the divide and replaced with new ones. Current state of play sees the tracks just resting on the screws; at the next opportunity, the screws will be adjusted accordingly and the rail ends soldered on as before (after new feeds have been attached).

When that will be, will depend on developments. Fingers crossed.

Here’s a photo of where I’m up to, to leave you with:

7163C7A6-0846-4D32-8999-FF29A1B627DA.jpeg

Kind regards for now.

Jonte
 

simond

Western Thunderer
Fingers crossed.

I can only remark that my daughter’s arrival was prolonged. Early evening, midwife told Madame to go to sleep, and me to go home, and that she would call me when my presence was required. This worked well, tho’ I’m not sure ‘er ladyship got any sleep.

I, on the other hand, finished my 57xx :)

little Miss M arrived in good order about 5 in the morning.
 

jonte

Western Thunderer
Fingers crossed.

I can only remark that my daughter’s arrival was prolonged. Early evening, midwife told Madame to go to sleep, and me to go home, and that she would call me when my presence was required. This worked well, tho’ I’m not sure ‘er ladyship got any sleep.

I, on the other hand, finished my 57xx :)

little Miss M arrived in good order about 5 in the morning.

Love it :))

Thanks, Simon. And a belated ‘many congrats’. ;)

Jon.
 

jonte

Western Thunderer
I’m delighted to report, fellow Westerners, that we are the proud grand parents of a 6lb 8oz baby girl, born just after 4 a.m. this morning :)

Mother and baby are both doing well, although will spend a further night in the maternity unit following what turned out to be a more difficult birth than anticipated.

Still, in between receiving visitors and running my son in law back to the Unit, I’ve managed to solder on the feeds to the new piece of track from yesterday, and adjust the screws. I’ve attached a photo which it makes it look like an invisible join, although it’s not to that standard, but like the first track, it’s now a lot smoother in operation:

6E144060-E883-46FD-B3B4-64F03D97C08C.jpeg

I ran out of time unfortunately due to current circumstances, but will wire the feeds into the bus at the next opportunity to conduct a quick test with the loco.

Oh, and there was another arrival: a replacement point for the one in the third road; not bad considering I only ordered it yesterday morning :thumbs:

Cheers

Jonte
 

Lyndhurstman

Western Thunderer
I’m delighted to report, fellow Westerners, that we are the proud grand parents of a 6lb 8oz baby girl, born just after 4 a.m. this morning :)

Mother and baby are both doing well, although will spend a further night in the maternity unit following what turned out to be a more difficult birth than anticipated.

Still, in between receiving visitors and running my son in law back to the Unit, I’ve managed to solder on the feeds to the new piece of track from yesterday, and adjust the screws. I’ve attached a photo which it makes it look like an invisible join, although it’s not to that standard, but like the first track, it’s now a lot smoother in operation:

View attachment 148663

I ran out of time unfortunately due to current circumstances, but will wire the feeds into the bus at the next opportunity to conduct a quick test with the loco.

Oh, and there was another arrival: a replacement point for the one in the third road; not bad considering I only ordered it yesterday morning :thumbs:

Cheers

Jonte

Congratulations to you all, @jonte .

Cheers

Jan
 

simond

Western Thunderer
Congratulations on both arrivals…

well, particularly on the little Miss. she’ll bring you much joy, I’m sure!

(Miss M is half way thru a 4 year MEng degree, it’s such a very short walk from finishing my 57xx. Some days it feels like minutes. I guess it’ll be the same when I’m in your shoes!)

cheers
Simon
 

jonte

Western Thunderer
Congratulations on both arrivals…

well, particularly on the little Miss. she’ll bring you much joy, I’m sure!

(Miss M is half way thru a 4 year MEng degree, it’s such a very short walk from finishing my 57xx. Some days it feels like minutes. I guess it’ll be the same when I’m in your shoes!)

cheers
Simon

She already is, Simon. Thank you :)

Miss M would appear to be a chip of the Ol’ bloc ;) Commendable!

As I penned recently, with a stolen line or two from Tears for Fears : ‘ Funny how time flies’.

Best.

Jonte
 

Pencarrow

Western Thunderer
Congratulations on both arrivals…

well, particularly on the little Miss. she’ll bring you much joy, I’m sure!

(Miss M is half way thru a 4 year MEng degree, it’s such a very short walk from finishing my 57xx. Some days it feels like minutes. I guess it’ll be the same when I’m in your shoes!)

cheers
Simon

Funny you should say that Simon. It doesn't seem that long ago that we brought No1 son back from the hospital. At that time friends and I were just getting Treneglos ready for its first exhibition. Today he's leaving home and we are taking him to start his university degree. 18 years in the blink of an eye...
 
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