Dave Holt
Western Thunderer
Thanks for the info. I've arranged to take three of my recent locos for display on Sunday.
Dave.
Mike G's Workspace.
- Thread starter Mike Garwood
- Start date
Dave.
Mike Garwood
Western Thunderer
Dave
Had a really good oggle of your engines. Superb craftsmanship. Really good to see you.
Mike
Mike Garwood
Western Thunderer
I did. Mostyn is totally amazing. Sheer size and volume, not to mention quality of the engines and stock.
Spent too much
Mike
Mike Garwood
Western Thunderer
Life has been busy over the last few weeks, the Grange has been completed and goes for comprehensive running trials on 17/10 when a visit to Barrow Road has been penciled in, well, not so much penciled as carved in stone. So there will be some pictures to come from that meeting.
In the mean time I've started the GWR 16xx- this is destined for my own layout but will be shared with NMRS for their forth coming P4 challenge layout, Cwm Carno.
This has been on my radar for a number of years. It's now an SEF kit - having been with Nu-cast for a numbers of years prior. The up graded chassis was designed by Mr Newitt. There are a number of advantages with a chassis from Justin's stable - you already know the parts will fit without any faffing about. Also, he has in corporated the the marking for CSB's (continuous springy beam), this saves a huge amount of work and it also means that High level hornblocks can be used. The chassis was designed in 2015, it's strange, but I don't think of this as being 10 years old!
Out with the red box...
As is my normal build method, get the coupling rods done first. I chose the jointed pair (you do get a choice in the etch). It's worth noting here that these rods have the coupling rod holes already set at 1.5mm, so very little fettling needs to be done to get a good fit over the crank pins. The wheels are 4'1" (Alan Gibson) for this engine. I think the rest of the pannier family were all 4'7". I stand to be corrected.
What's also impressive about the chassis kit is that there are upgrades for the whitemetal body...sanding gear is provided. The instructions come with a complete exploded diagram - my favorite type of instruction. All the spacers are slot and tab. This all sounds like an advert for Justin's chassis, but he doesn't sell this chassis, you have to get it from SEF. Building something like this where the parts literally fall into their correct places is such a relief.
So, where am I now. The first half of the chassis is complete (see above, there are 2 more spacers to be soldered in plus the strengthening supports at the front and rear buffer) tomorrow I shall get the chassis completed, then it'll be a good clean. Monday will see it got into primer and a top coat. It's going so well I can't wait to see how I cock it up!
Stay safe
Mike.
In the mean time I've started the GWR 16xx- this is destined for my own layout but will be shared with NMRS for their forth coming P4 challenge layout, Cwm Carno.
This has been on my radar for a number of years. It's now an SEF kit - having been with Nu-cast for a numbers of years prior. The up graded chassis was designed by Mr Newitt. There are a number of advantages with a chassis from Justin's stable - you already know the parts will fit without any faffing about. Also, he has in corporated the the marking for CSB's (continuous springy beam), this saves a huge amount of work and it also means that High level hornblocks can be used. The chassis was designed in 2015, it's strange, but I don't think of this as being 10 years old!
Out with the red box...
As is my normal build method, get the coupling rods done first. I chose the jointed pair (you do get a choice in the etch). It's worth noting here that these rods have the coupling rod holes already set at 1.5mm, so very little fettling needs to be done to get a good fit over the crank pins. The wheels are 4'1" (Alan Gibson) for this engine. I think the rest of the pannier family were all 4'7". I stand to be corrected.
What's also impressive about the chassis kit is that there are upgrades for the whitemetal body...sanding gear is provided. The instructions come with a complete exploded diagram - my favorite type of instruction. All the spacers are slot and tab. This all sounds like an advert for Justin's chassis, but he doesn't sell this chassis, you have to get it from SEF. Building something like this where the parts literally fall into their correct places is such a relief.
So, where am I now. The first half of the chassis is complete (see above, there are 2 more spacers to be soldered in plus the strengthening supports at the front and rear buffer) tomorrow I shall get the chassis completed, then it'll be a good clean. Monday will see it got into primer and a top coat. It's going so well I can't wait to see how I cock it up!
Stay safe
Mike.
Captain Kernow
Western Thunderer
Good to see you doing a 16XX, Mike, but isn't the kit marketed by NuCast Partners, rather than SEF/Squires?
Mike Garwood
Western Thunderer
So much for getting the chassis in paint! But I have at least gone as far as I can, before paint can be added.
I've prepared the wheels and then started work on the gearbox. This particular gearbox has been hanging around in my spares box for years. So rather than go to the box with all my gearboxes in, I ploughed in. It's a Road runner plus. Everything went swimmingly, until I soldered in the connection for the extension, which I managed to solder solid! Fortunately I soldered it completely straight. So all is not lost. But the excitement doesn't stop there...the final drive in the axle is the long final drive type and not a short final drive, a spare has been sent for! I just hope the gearbox will fit inside the body! Should have got the g/box box out!!
That's where I am right now. Hopefully paint tomorrow! The chassis has been given a really good scrub with Viacal....twice.
The chassis itself has been a joy to build. Out with the body kit next and back to the world of WM soldering, the last WM kit I put together was the Brit, a long time ago.
Stay safe
Mike.
I've prepared the wheels and then started work on the gearbox. This particular gearbox has been hanging around in my spares box for years. So rather than go to the box with all my gearboxes in, I ploughed in. It's a Road runner plus. Everything went swimmingly, until I soldered in the connection for the extension, which I managed to solder solid! Fortunately I soldered it completely straight. So all is not lost. But the excitement doesn't stop there...the final drive in the axle is the long final drive type and not a short final drive, a spare has been sent for! I just hope the gearbox will fit inside the body! Should have got the g/box box out!!
That's where I am right now. Hopefully paint tomorrow!
The chassis has been given a really good scrub with Viacal....twice.The chassis itself has been a joy to build. Out with the body kit next and back to the world of WM soldering, the last WM kit I put together was the Brit, a long time ago.
Stay safe
Mike.
Nick Rogers
Western Thunderer
Lovely stuff, Mike! I have a 16xx in the maturing box. I must order a chassis kit for it from Brian Osborne thinking about it. I’ve got some 4ft 1 wheels on order from Ultrascale - they aren’t exactly right but are close enough to pass.
Captain Kernow
Western Thunderer
Mike,
This is the motor/gearbox combination I fitted to my OO example (Justin Newitt chassis), which also has a drive extender:
I then found that I had to be a bit careful with the front casting of the cab and remove a little, to accommodate the gearbox:
I also 'did a High Level' as regards a false boiler bottom, attached to the chassis, with the motor sitting in it (essentially copied my 74XX chassis):
Hope the above helps!
Mike Garwood
Western Thunderer
Cheers Tim - thanks for that. That’ll come in very handy as the WM build commences tomorrow morning.
Mike Garwood
Western Thunderer
The gearbox remake has come to a resolution. Having soldered it solid, on a closer look the gears did not revolve smoothly. Oiling had no effect. I took it all apart put the gears on a 2 mm steel shaft and found that they did not turn freely.
Opened out the gears with a broach...gently...a couple of turns later both gears weren't binding. I took the opportunity to clean the soldered etches and blacken the surfaces, so the same thing did'nt happen next time! Happy to say it didn't. This is the resting place for the g/box, and it turns with no effort at all.
I thought that I had plenty of motors in stock. I think some little helpers hands have been moving things around Grandpas study! Anyway can't find 'em any where and there's at least 4 unused Mashimas (1424's), I expect them to turn up at some stage. In the mean time Mr Higgs gets another order. The wheels have been completed - crank pins in. This evenings task is to clean up the castings.
And in other news, SWMBO is going away for a long weekend at the end of November, so hoping to get the body ready for painting by then.
Stay safe
Mike.
Opened out the gears with a broach...gently...a couple of turns later both gears weren't binding. I took the opportunity to clean the soldered etches and blacken the surfaces, so the same thing did'nt happen next time! Happy to say it didn't. This is the resting place for the g/box, and it turns with no effort at all.
I thought that I had plenty of motors in stock. I think some little helpers hands have been moving things around Grandpas study! Anyway can't find 'em any where and there's at least 4 unused Mashimas (1424's), I expect them to turn up at some stage. In the mean time Mr Higgs gets another order. The wheels have been completed - crank pins in. This evenings task is to clean up the castings.
And in other news, SWMBO is going away for a long weekend at the end of November, so hoping to get the body ready for painting by then.
Stay safe
Mike.
Captain Kernow
Western Thunderer
It looks as if we've used the same gearbox, Mike!
Mike Garwood
Western Thunderer
The WM build has begun....
If the chassis was a high tech piece, then the WM kit I have is the single celled omeba still wallowing in the mud. I knew it'd be bad, but I had no idea that it was going to be this bad. DJH this isn't.
Lets start with the footplate and the wheel widths across it. A P4 axle is usually 22.9 mm in width (I shall specify the 3 I have from Mr Gibson all measure the same). The width across the splashers (currently) is 23mm. There is approx 1 mm of WM in the wall of the splasher. So I recon I can get another mill out of the splashers, with a lot of careful work. The alternative, is to drill the WM out completely and substitute some plastic card glued to the face of the splasher...tempting.
I did a dry run of the remaining parts. This showed up a need to take shares in Gorilla glue. That's an exaggeration but nothing buts up tightly theres always a gap, some are over 1mm, on each side. Not great.
I started with the cab front - because from here I could build back for the bunker and forward for the boiler and smoke box. So having got this part soldered in vertical and horizontal I fixed the cab sides against the cab front. It's at this point I made by first mistake, because I didn't measure the length of the cab sides. One is longer than the other! I can hear one of my friends saying, 'take nowt for granted and measure everything twice'.
How do I know this? Because when I went to fit the rear of the bunker, it was was on the slanted side of straight, which lost a third of the rivet detail on the rear of the footplate floor. I have managed a bodge so that the rivet detail is now visible but the rear end still has a distinct slant and there's the inevitable gap between the rear of the bunker to the cab sides.
I did fit the chassis to the work to date, as you'd expect it fits bang on. The gearbox will sit perfectly well where it is in the previous post, the only thing stopping it sitting correctly is the brake rod across the chassis, once that's been removed all should be well.
If you think that the chassis isn't centered on the splashers - you'd be right, that's because the chassis isn't screwed down in place.
I've also been busy drawing up some upgrades. These will go to PPD in the next few days. I've redrawn the mid steps and cab steps, plus the lifting lugs (the lugs and rings are molded into the water tank casting. And last but not least, the rear sandboxes. I've looked everywhere of GWR pannier sandboxes with out success. The only other thing I might have to draw is the large whistle shield. I have not exhausted an internet search for one...yet.
This is a challenge, no doubt about it. It's going to take a lot of effort to get something worth while.
Stay safe
Mike.
If the chassis was a high tech piece, then the WM kit I have is the single celled omeba still wallowing in the mud. I knew it'd be bad, but I had no idea that it was going to be this bad. DJH this isn't.
Lets start with the footplate and the wheel widths across it. A P4 axle is usually 22.9 mm in width (I shall specify the 3 I have from Mr Gibson all measure the same). The width across the splashers (currently) is 23mm. There is approx 1 mm of WM in the wall of the splasher. So I recon I can get another mill out of the splashers, with a lot of careful work. The alternative, is to drill the WM out completely and substitute some plastic card glued to the face of the splasher...tempting.
I did a dry run of the remaining parts. This showed up a need to take shares in Gorilla glue. That's an exaggeration but nothing buts up tightly theres always a gap, some are over 1mm, on each side. Not great.
I started with the cab front - because from here I could build back for the bunker and forward for the boiler and smoke box. So having got this part soldered in vertical and horizontal I fixed the cab sides against the cab front. It's at this point I made by first mistake, because I didn't measure the length of the cab sides. One is longer than the other! I can hear one of my friends saying, 'take nowt for granted and measure everything twice'.
How do I know this? Because when I went to fit the rear of the bunker, it was was on the slanted side of straight, which lost a third of the rivet detail on the rear of the footplate floor. I have managed a bodge so that the rivet detail is now visible but the rear end still has a distinct slant and there's the inevitable gap between the rear of the bunker to the cab sides.
I did fit the chassis to the work to date, as you'd expect it fits bang on. The gearbox will sit perfectly well where it is in the previous post, the only thing stopping it sitting correctly is the brake rod across the chassis, once that's been removed all should be well.
If you think that the chassis isn't centered on the splashers - you'd be right, that's because the chassis isn't screwed down in place.
I've also been busy drawing up some upgrades. These will go to PPD in the next few days. I've redrawn the mid steps and cab steps, plus the lifting lugs (the lugs and rings are molded into the water tank casting. And last but not least, the rear sandboxes. I've looked everywhere of GWR pannier sandboxes with out success. The only other thing I might have to draw is the large whistle shield. I have not exhausted an internet search for one...yet.
This is a challenge, no doubt about it. It's going to take a lot of effort to get something worth while.
Stay safe
Mike.
AJC
Western Thunderer
Good work, Mike - have you seen @Overseer's detail shots?
I gather that the real thing is currently under overhaul so this is as close as you're likely to get for a while.
Adam
16xx Pannier - smaller and .....
I hold WT totally responsible for this diversion into scattergun modelling. Well maybe not totally, but it has lead me astray. The challenge of making the bunker shape has proved irresistible hence the decision to build a model of 1646 or 1649 as they appeared in Scotland. The last pannier, and...
www.westernthunder.co.uk
I gather that the real thing is currently under overhaul so this is as close as you're likely to get for a while.
Adam
Captain Kernow
Western Thunderer
What number will the 16XX carry, Mike?
Mike Garwood
Western Thunderer
1610 out of 88E.
Mike Garwood
Western Thunderer
My visit to Barrow Road with the Grange didn't exactly go as planned...
Looks ok doesn't it? However, the running at speeds that you'd actually use this engine in, is frankly..rubbish.
The fault has been traced back to the rear hornblocks and axle. It's far too loose within the chassis allowing the coupling rods to rock the body. To say I'm annoyed at my own stupidity would be an massive understatement. When I ran the chassis on my plank it was fine.
So, after the 16xx is completed, the chassis will be stripped down, having to order another set of wheels, and rebuild using some GA springing units. I hate having to redo work that should have been completed properly first time. Never mind, I have to remind myself this is a hobby and no-one is going to die from me screwing up a model - it's just another step in my modelling education.
Stay safe
Mike
Looks ok doesn't it? However, the running at speeds that you'd actually use this engine in, is frankly..rubbish.
The fault has been traced back to the rear hornblocks and axle. It's far too loose within the chassis allowing the coupling rods to rock the body. To say I'm annoyed at my own stupidity would be an massive understatement. When I ran the chassis on my plank it was fine.So, after the 16xx is completed, the chassis will be stripped down, having to order another set of wheels, and rebuild using some GA springing units. I hate having to redo work that should have been completed properly first time. Never mind, I have to remind myself this is a hobby and no-one is going to die from me screwing up a model - it's just another step in my modelling education.
Stay safe
Mike
Nick Rogers
Western Thunderer
My visit to Barrow Road with the Grange didn't exactly go as planned...
Looks ok doesn't it? However, the running at speeds that you'd actually use this engine in, is frankly..rubbish.
So, after the 16xx is completed, the chassis will be stripped down, having to order another set of wheels, and rebuild using some GA springing units. I hate having to redo work that should have been completed properly first time. Never mind, I have to remind myself this is a hobby and no-one is going to die from me screwing up a model - it's just another step in my modelling education.
Stay safe
Mike
View attachment 249884
Hi Mike,
I can feel your frustration from here! Well done for sharing it! Many people wouldn't have said a word about the chassis and quietly replaced it, so thank you for sharing your trials and tribulations!
GA springing? I don't think I've come across that - who makes it?
All the best,
Mike Garwood
Western Thunderer
I've always thought that modeling was about growing, either experience or knowledge.
These were something from the early 00's marketed by that good egg Gordon Ashton. They are a good sprung system, the County, 8f and Std 4 tank uses this - each wheel has it's own sprung unit. I'll put some photos up as I go along with the rebuild. Which reminds me to order some more from Gordon.
Mike.