7mm Mickoo's Commercial Workbench

[mickoo]

Thank you Mick.

I didn't know Ragstone did a kit of this particular locomotive. I'll check it out.

Your point about the additional parts and associated costs is noted.

Cheers
Mike

They may well do a GER version, I say that as the instructions show mostly a GER model being built and there appears to be (some) castings for said version. This kit (LK18) will build the industrial version and GER versions 209 - 210 which I suspect are the very early Neilson open cab versions that the GER bought. I've not had chance yet to see if there's another kit for the other GER engines; I'm really tight on time to get it away by this evening.

The one I'm doing is one of the four Stratford builds that came later. As far as I can tell there were four Neilson builds and four Stratford builds, the Neilson ones were modified later to the Stratford design, but almost certainly not identical; pictorial information is scarce so it's logical to impart a bit of common sense engineering of the day to get what you want.

 

[mickoo]

It doesn't look a lot different from yesterday but all the little final details take an age so it'll have to do, Warren will be here shortly before he heads off home so I'm out of time.

Anything missing can be added after paint, specifically the smoke box door handles (3 off) that need scratch building and hand brake stand handle (white metal one already broken in box). Connecting rods are a one shot fixing in the captive cross head so will go on after paint right at the end.

There's also some sort of fitting on the front ends of the tanks that are not in the kit box, so I'll have to try and rustle something up. Like above, they can be fitted into drilled holes after paint as they need to be bare brass and not engine colour; the safety valve arm will also pop on after paint.

I've split the cab off so folks can see how it all fits into place and aids access for paint, it's a bit convoluted and being as my crayons are a bit blunt there's a large margin of error marking out so it's made of of several sections and all joined together.

There's a small pull rod from the hand brake crank to go in up to the cab floor but being as the chassis stays here for paint I can pick that off later, the priority was the body for Warren to save a us both making a trip later and meeting half way to exchange models.

 

[Dog Star]

A very handsome model, I appreciate the way in which you make access to the cab interior.

 

[Brian McKenzie]

Connecting rods are a one shot fixing in the captive cross head so will go on after paint right at the end.

Tricky stuff and brave work - with that pattern of slidebar bracket severely impacting both side and con. rod clearances .

Will the con. rod connection to crosshead become permanent - or 'disconnectable'?

-Brian McK.

 

[mickoo]

Tricky stuff and brave work - with that pattern of slidebar bracket severely impacting both side and con. rod clearances .

Will the con. rod connection to crosshead become permanent - or 'disconnectable'?

-Brian McK.

Clearances I have, like the real engines I've reduced the leading axle boss so that the outer face is flush, I've also (like the real engines) reduced the wheel boss so the rods can get closer.

The con rod small end fixing will be a small steel rivet fitted from the inside, I'll probably have to enlarge/recess the hole slightly on the inside to accept the pin flange or just run with a very thin flange on the outside. The shaft will then have a dab of solder on the outside where it passes through the crosshead.

So yes, effectively it will be come (semi) permanent, but you'd only need heat the pin crosshead at the pin and poke it back through if you needed to get it out.

The only drawback is this all has to be done on a fully assembled and painted chassis and with the wheels in, once the con rod goes in you can't access the axle screw to get the wheels off or draw the axle out afterward. All a bit of a ship in a bottle type affair really.

The other option, thinking about it as i write this, is to thread the little end 14 or 16BA, pass the screw through from the outside with a little thread lock on and tighten as required, then file the head down so the slot is no longer present, or even use a tinned down hex head.

Less prototypical but more practical, given the less than protoypical aspects on other parts of the kit....it won't won't look too amiss.

 

[simond]

Granny & eggs alert.

when I did Chris Tooth’s pannier, I threaded the little end of the con rod, and screwed the pin into that from the inside.
Thin fat head on the inside same thickness as the inner web of the crosshead, core diameter pin on the outside, so bearings in the cross head rather than the rod.

Might be useful?
S

 

[Ian@StEnochs]

I have used 14BA screws for crossheads/connecting rod pins for years. Thread through crossheads and little end of the connecting rod and screw in from front. Head ether turned or nut, sometimes made to look castellated, soldered on. The connecting rod has very little angular movement but if it is tight a stroke with a file leaves enough clearance.

 

[mickoo]

Granny & eggs alert.

when I did Chris Tooth’s pannier, I threaded the little end of the con rod, and screwed the pin into that from the inside.
Thin fat head on the inside same thickness as the inner web of the crosshead, core diameter pin on the outside, so bearings in the cross head rather than the rod.

Might be useful?
S

That's the best way but not practical in this context, if you do that then the cross head and con rod are permanently fixed to the chassis for the rest of the build and paint and you'll never get the front wheel off or out.

The motion bracket is part of the frame structure and a good % of it's structural strength so really has to be soldered in, the cylinders have no provision for being made demount-able, not easily or with further workload.

Once built you can't easily get a screw in from the inside as the wheel gets in the way and you can't leave it off as once the con rod goes on you can't fit the wheel.

 

[mickoo]

I have used 14BA screws for crossheads/connecting rod pins for years. Thread through crossheads and little end of the connecting rod and screw in from front. Head ether turned or nut, sometimes made to look castellated, soldered on. The connecting rod has very little angular movement but if it is tight a stroke with a file leaves enough clearance.

My thoughts exactly, except I was going to thread lock on the con rod but after a good nights sleep realize that won't work as the thread lock will probably seep into the crosshead and lock both solid, you're method is much better and it shall be so

 

[simond]

That's the best way but not practical in this context, if you do that then the cross head and con rod are permanently fixed to the chassis for the rest of the build and paint and you'll never get the front wheel off or out.

The motion bracket is part of the frame structure and a good % of it's structural strength so really has to be soldered in, the cylinders have no provision for being made demount-able, not easily or with further workload.

Once built you can't easily get a screw in from the inside as the wheel gets in the way and you can't leave it off as once the con rod goes on you can't fit the wheel.

Ah, yes, that is a constraint that I didn’t have to deal with. The cylinders are on threaded studs on the pannier.

 

[mickoo]

The motion bracket is part of the main frame stay across the frames, you do really have to fix it in place for strength, same for the cylinder block; there's ample clearance for rods and cross head etc.



The captive cross head all the way forward just allows the axle screw access and removal and then you can just wriggle the axle out afterward.

 

[mickoo]

Another one reassembled and rolling into the fitting out shop and rolling road running.

Gladiator Maunsell S15, paint by Warren Haywood.

 

[mickoo]

I had planned to have this done this week, clearly it wasn't to be, but it's not too far away now. It's just all fitted loosely together so fret not about the gaps here and there.

 

[mickoo]

Finally finished the DA 8F ready for strip down and paint, couple of niggles to sort when stripped down and some of the valve gear is just dropped in place as it can really only be fixed in once painted and final assembled. Also need to add sander steam lines once all wheels and motion out and lubricators, doors, fallplate after paint.

Shout out to David at Gladiator for helping with the replacement drain cocks and pipes castings, they were missing from this kit

Addendum, also just noticed I need to add the drain pipe from the ejector elbow at the smokebox

 

[mickoo]

And so we move on, finally to the JLTRT Star, the third in the tranche of JLTRT kits going across the bench. As usually nothing too untoward as yet and as usual the optional 3D parts have been employed. Not sure if I can get the cast motion bracket on the top as this model follows the designed feature of splitting the whole front end off.

Sharp of eye will note no leading brake shoes, there's a little tab that hangs down below the frames on the Stars for the pivot and of which the instructions quite clearly state do not cut off if adding later springs....don't need to say much more to be honest

I'll add a new tabs tomorrow and then fit the leading brakes, slack adjusters and tie rod between front and rear cross shafts.

 

[mickoo]

Brief update at weeks end on the JLTRT Star, most of the chassis is done, valve spindles and rocking arms and leading sandboxes to finish.

I'll add a 3D inside cylinder block later once I know all my clearances etc, it shouldn't be dished inside the leading bogie axle as the frames at the front end are already narrowed, but I've a feeling I'm going to have to.

Unlike Castles and Kings, Stars do not appear to have trailing sand boxes, but they do have intermediate ones which appear to have lasted until the end, so they've been dropped in.

The bogie still needs the 3D ATC set up and then the cross braces can go in.

 

[Longbow]

Mick - I'd appreciate your thoughts about where we stand with 3D resin prints vs metal castings.

 

[Genghis]

Mick - I'd appreciate your thoughts about where we stand with 3D resin prints vs metal castings.

If @mickoo will excuse me, I'll jump in with some observations.

It depends on the application. Gladiator now has moved (or is moving) to 3D prints for mechanical lubricators to replace brass or whitemetal castings. The detail is excellent and they are easy to drill for the oil pipes. They are robust with no parts to break.

We also supply some tender axlebox/spring assemblies as 3D prints. The detail is good but we do suffer a bit of wastage with thin sections being knocked off easily. If, Like Mick, you are printing your own for immediate application in a model then why not. Certainly for one off applications you could not beat a 3D print for price and suitability. We did try reson prints for some of the levers and supports on the Caprotti but abandoned these in favour of brass castings, simply for reasons of strength.

Things change when you are thinking about multiple copies for production build. Again 3D CAD work producing a file for printing is the first step. For our Caprotti kit Mick produced the .stl files that went to a professional wax printer who produced the masters for a casting company. The casting company produced moulds from the waxes and we now have chimneys, domes and steam pipes in great detail at a reasonable price. These could be printed each time, but brass is a better option.

For slidebars and crossheads the only realistic solution is nickel silver castings, but these have even been done in whitemetal in the past.

Whitemetal still has a place. It has the advantage of being relatively cheap and for large items, such as backheads is likely to be first choice.

Different materials have different characteristics and it's a case of horses for courses.
David

 

[P A D]

Mick,
I've been watching your builds ever since I first came across the Finney 7 W1 development. Your soldering and assembly work is second to none but with your CAD and 3D printing skills you are able to lift any kit, no matter how good to start with, to another level. Utterly superb!
Cheers,
Peter

 

[mickoo]

Mick - I'd appreciate your thoughts about where we stand with 3D resin prints vs metal castings.

It kind of depends, there is a lot of reticence toward resin from the old guard, I truly get that, nothing beats top quality metal castings on a metal model; sadly though, none of that matters once it's painted.

Resin will break down (fact), when? No one really knows so you have to weigh up if you want the super detail now and risk reworking in the future, or build models that'll last centuries; only the individual can wrestle with that conundrum. In my case all my clients embrace 3D and view it'll out live them, they want their cookies now, and later it won't be their problem.

David has touched on some good points, for solo commission work and if the client is willing it's a game changer, for commercial work then it's still in it's infancy and in my view needs to be tailored to specific components.

3D resin is a great replacement medium for block objects, mainly those that would have been cast in white metal, items like tool boxes, sand boxes, domes, engine springs, tender springs / axle boxes, brake cylinders, AWS components, piston valve covers and in some cases complete cylinder blocks; I've also done whole smoke box fronts and fireboxes but they take a lot of post processing and care in design and set up. What it is not good for (in my view) are small fragile parts like gauge glasses, hoses, lamp irons, smoke box darts etc, items typically cast in brass.

In all fairness, 3D prints are no more fragile than some white metal and I've had kits where the white metal has started to degrade, crack & fail, so 3D isn't really any worse off in that context. There is also the aspect that many kits no longer have an active supplier, so you need to look for active 3rd party casters who supply the parts or scratch build.

I think 3D will keep advancing, keep pushing the boundaries and getting more and more complex, it has to; I firmly believe the hobby needs it to keep costs down and interest in the product. I don't think it'll be all encompassing but in time will be a powerful aspect to mix with traditional materials.

Put another way, it's not going away, so explore, adapt, embrace.