Mickoo's American Modelling Empire

[mickoo]

Double post but this one is not the layout, but sound, not HO either but it belongs here more than elsewhere.

Having successfully navigated uploading a sound pack and changing the horn type I felt quite pleased, however the sound is very 'digital/clipped', I'd like a bit more bleed/fade in and out if that's possible?

I'm also assuming that any changes made in the sound section are not uploaded with the normal (decoder) write parameter command and need a full sound upload again?



Secondly, headlights front and rear, is it possible to have the leading full beam and trailing dimmed and then swap automatically with direction of travel?

 

[richard carr]

Hi Mick

I can't help you with the sound, but for the headlights I don't think you can do that, there is no option for to dim a light in the function mapping tab, it is just drive and direction that can be automatically switched with ESU.

Richard

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

I'm also assuming that any changes made in the sound section are not uploaded with the normal (decoder) write parameter command and need a full sound upload again?

Yes, you have to upload the sound data again so it overwrites the original horn,

Secondly, headlights front and rear, is it possible to have the leading full beam and trailing dimmed and then swap automatically with direction of travel?

I can't help you with the sound, but for the headlights I don't think you can do that, there is no option for to dim a light in the function mapping tab, it is just drive and direction that can be automatically switched with ESU.

I'm sure this would be possible but may have to add/reassign the extra headlight functionality to additional functions to operate independently. I'm also sure there's a rule 17 option available.

I'll take a look at my ESU programmer and experiment to see if this can be done easily.

 

[mickoo]

Thanks for the replies, yes you can have the lights dim with change of direction, you need to set them as dimmable and then adjust how much you want them to dim by, so that’s sorted. What isn’t sorted is turning them off, they’re always on even when the light function is off, they’re LEDs and configured as such but as soon as the loco is on the track they turn on. More playing to do.

 

[richard carr]

Mick

Please tell more about dimming the headlights. I can see how it would be done as Dave suggested, but then you have to press a function button to activate it, I want it to be automatic, and still be able to turn them all off, as the real thing does.

Thanks

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

Rule 17 is here in Lokprogrammer 5. I'll have to dig out my GP9 and read the decoder to find out my settings. It is automatic - while it's stationary the lights are dim, when it starts moving the headlights brighten up.

 

[mickoo]

Mick

Please tell more about dimming the headlights. I can see how it would be done as Dave suggested, but then you have to press a function button to activate it, I want it to be automatic, and still be able to turn them all off, as the real thing does.

Thanks

Richard,

I can get them to dim depending on the direction, so forward one bright, trailing dim and vice versa when you change direction. What I cannot do....as yet...is turn the bloody things off even though they are mapped to the lights function as well.

Turning the lights off simply stops the auto dim by direction, it does not turn them off, they come on as soon as the loco is placed on the track.

Part of my problem might be that they are LEDs and they draw so little current that they may not be dragging the output down low enough when they're switched off, especially as the chip is switching the neutral and not the supply. I'll play some more with that.

One thing I have found is that making changes is a nightmare, suddenly the fade in and out will stop working and they go straight from bright to dim, then suddenly the change over will not work on one light and it'll stay the same brightness and then suddenly you'll upload again and it all works

I'll do some Lokprogrammer screen shots later and post them up, I did somehow manage to spank the front light output so have had to remap Aux1 output to the front light output and that works fine.

 

[mickoo]

Rule 17 is here in Lokprogrammer 5. I'll have to dig out my GP9 and read the decoder to find out my settings. It is automatic - while it's stationary the lights are dim, when it starts moving the headlights brighten up.

View attachment 218857

Yeah mine is like that but they both don't dim when stationary, they just stay one dim and one bright depending on where the reverser is set.

You also need to select a fade time in the Function settings page, by default it's zero seconds so you get no fade in or out and you also need to set how much you want to fade it by on the same page, 60% is okay with LEDs, below that they supply dips below the LED minimum and they turn off.

I also found that with LEDs you need the main brightness you've highlighted to be set much higher, or again it'll dip below the minimum threshold.

 

[richard carr]

Mick

What is rule 17 ?

Richard

 

[mickoo]

Mick

What is rule 17 ?

Richard

No idea Dave will know I'm sure but I'll take a rough stab that it's something to do with European workings and how they set their light configs up, similar...or could well be the same....as Swiss mapping or something, but really no clue.

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

Rule 17 is a US railroad rule regarding headlights.

This is from DCC-Wiki

Rule 17 is a prototype railroad rule specifying conditions for dimming lights on locomotives.

Rule 17 is a collection of rules governing which lights are to be illuminated on a locomotive at given times and to when they should be dimmed. These rules vary by railroad but follow a similar pattern. The general purpose of the rule is to ensure that the locomotive is visible, without creating undue glare for others in the area.

• Except when an engine is clear of the main and stopped, both the front (and rear if so equipped) headlights should be on.
• The light in the direction of travel shall be a full brightness except:
  • 1. At stations and yards where switching is being done.
  • 2. When the engine is stopped close behind another train.
  • 3. In non-signalled (dark) territory, when the engine is stopped on the main track waiting on an approaching train.
  • 4. When approaching and passing the head end and rear end of a train on the adjacent track.
  • 5. At other times to permit passing of hand signals or when the safety of employees requires.
• The opposite light should be dimmed.

 

[mickoo]

Rule 17 is a US railroad rule regarding headlights.

This is from DCC-Wiki

Rule 17 is a prototype railroad rule specifying conditions for dimming lights on locomotives.

Rule 17 is a collection of rules governing which lights are to be illuminated on a locomotive at given times and to when they should be dimmed. These rules vary by railroad but follow a similar pattern. The general purpose of the rule is to ensure that the locomotive is visible, without creating undue glare for others in the area.

• Except when an engine is clear of the main and stopped, both the front (and rear if so equipped) headlights should be on.
• The light in the direction of travel shall be a full brightness except:
  • 1. At stations and yards where switching is being done.
  • 2. When the engine is stopped close behind another train.
  • 3. In non-signalled (dark) territory, when the engine is stopped on the main track waiting on an approaching train.
  • 4. When approaching and passing the head end and rear end of a train on the adjacent track.
  • 5. At other times to permit passing of hand signals or when the safety of employees requires.
• The opposite light should be dimmed.

See....knew Dave would know

I'll try mapping that and see if both dim when stationary, mind this is a PRR SW1 from the 50's/60's and I think Rule 17 was not enforced, let alone written back then?

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

I think it came into being around 1958-60

 

[Jordan]

See....knew Dave would know

He beat me to it...
Don't know why your headlights won't switch off though Mick. I have them set up similar on my Atlas RS3, ESU loksound decoder (V4 Select I think). Both on, but dim when stopped, bright in direction of travel when moving, and the usual 'headlights' button (F0) also will switch them on or off, regardless. The setup was done on a Sprog 3.

 

[richard carr]

Thanks everyone too, I'm setting up the Sunset SD40s and their mapping is all over the place. They appear to have done one setup to cover all the various roads, so with ditch lights some with gyra lights some with marker lights but plenty without all three and still it's all programmed in including ditch lights wired to the headlights !


Richard

 

[mickoo]

Well I popped into Coastal DCC for some different LED's and resistors, still no difference on them being on all the time, but then things started to go down hill; whenever the light function button was pressed, direction was changed or starting up a wisp of smoke came off the board. Then the drive stopped working ( in one instance the pad got hot and unsoldered the motor wire, another time the track input pad got hot and unsoldered that wire) and then the sound, by then I was using Aux 4 and 5 and a different U+ pad (I'm assuming all three are common dotted around the board) to get away from that end of the chip.

Eventually I could no longer read or write to the chip and it is official a 'Norwegian Blue', I'll be back tomorrow to get another one.

I think some of the issues were my own doing soldering to the pads, I use a liquid flux and may not have wiped it all off causing it to track across the solder pads and start a chain reaction who's ending was predictable. I'm hoping the motor is not the culprit as it's an older Brass Import PSC model; the motor is quite chunky but it shouldn't draw more than 1.5A and to be fair, it always ran fine, it was just the lights that were playing up.

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

Sounds like a component failure on the decoder and/or shorting wires somewhere. Once I've soldered wires onto decoder pads I check them under a magnifier and run a sharp knife blade between them to make sure there's no loose strands of wire flailing around or solder overspill.

For soldering onto decoders I always use rosin core electrical solder and have smaller soldering iron with a fine tip specifically for electronics.

As for LEDs and resistors I'll check my stock tomorrow or Friday when I get a chance to report on what I use. I generally double up or one and a half times up on the resistor value rather than use the recommended resistor to reduce the voltage to the LED further (and to reduce light bleed).

Out of curiosity is the motor a Pitmann or Sagami can?

 

[Jordan]

For soldering onto decoders I always use rosin core electrical solder and have smaller soldering iron with a fine tip specifically for electronics.

Again, ditto. I've never taken flux to a decoder, just used electrical solder.

whenever the light function button was pressed, direction was changed or starting up a wisp of smoke came off the board.

Losing the magic smoke is never a good sign, either.

 

[mickoo]

Sounds like a component failure on the decoder and/or shorting wires somewhere. Once I've soldered wires onto decoder pads I check them under a magnifier and run a sharp knife blade between them to make sure there's no loose strands of wire flailing around or solder overspill.

For soldering onto decoders I always use rosin core electrical solder and have smaller soldering iron with a fine tip specifically for electronics.

As for LEDs and resistors I'll check my stock tomorrow or Friday when I get a chance to report on what I use. I generally double up or one and a half times up on the resistor value rather than use the recommended resistor to reduce the voltage to the LED further (and to reduce light bleed).

Out of curiosity is the motor a Pitmann or Sagami can?

Yeah I think rosin self fixed would be the way to go in the future, generally I buy chips with the NNRA 8 pin plugs, then cut them off lol so I think I’m going to use the sockets now and save trying to solder to small fiddly wires. The only pad soldering I really need do is for the stay alive pack.

In hindsight the whole episode was an exercise in how not to do it, rushing, over confidence and only three hours sleep, having said that the initial installation was good with the filament lamps until I turned them on and they blew, my gut feeling is their inrush damaged the chip components enough to create an ever spiraling catalogue of issues.

No idea on the motor, black and round is all I can tell you and I’m running 1k resistors with these new LEDs, I’d prefer 1.2k to be honest but they assured me in the shop they were fine and it was quite a chore getting them to sell me them to be honest. They wanted to check the chip out first to be sure, touting for work I think.

 

[richard carr]

Hi Mick

Smoke usually means it's all too late and your decoder has gone.


I'm trying to sort out my SD40 T2 and now I have lost all the lights, the sound still works and it runs really well but no lights whatsoever, since I was faffing around with rule 17 and trying to see what it actually did, has anyone got any suggestions ?

Thanks