LBSCR Early Horsebox

[Jon Nazareth]

I would like to scratchbuild a G3 version of the early LBSCR horsebox as originally marketed by MSC Models. I have the O gauge kit and this has a good drawing by G R Weddell but I feel that I would need something more detailed to make anything like a reasonable job of it. I have looked at the NRM lists but find them quite confusing to be of any help to me. Any advice would be much appreciated.

Jon

 

[demu1037]

Have you looked at the LBSC carriages book by Simon Turner, Sheina Foulkes (ISBN: 9781905505357), you may need vol2 for Horseboxes though!

Andy

 

[Jon Nazareth]

Andy

I have the first book but need to buy the second.

Jon

 

[unklian]

Would it be the same type as the little 14 foot Stroudley 1893 box that ended up on the Isle of Wight ?

Regards Ian

 

[Jon Nazareth]

Ian

Not sure about that but thanks for letting me know that one exists and the one I'm researching is certainly 14' overall! I think that I can feel a trip to the Island coming up...............but maybe not until the weather warms up a bit.

Jon

 

[unklian]

Sorry Jon I meant historically ended up on the island, sadly it was scrapped in 1956 !

 

[Jon Nazareth]

Ian
That's okay but what a brilliant picture, thanks for posting it. I did send an email to the Wight Railway but the reply came back sating that they haven't got one.

Jon

 

[unklian]

Jon,
I wish I could find a drawing of this one too though. Apart from being a genuine Wight vehicle, I love its quaint proportions. I have drawings of similar GWR and MSWJR vehicles, and I always fancied a train of horseboxes. Have to keep looking...

Ian

 

[Jon Nazareth]

I would like to scratch build this small horse box but feel that it may be too much for me to take on. So, does anyone know if there is a G3 kit out there of a small horse box? Not necessarily a LBSCR version. I have posted a similar request on the G3 Forum.

Jon

 

[jamiepage]

Jon,
I am convinced you would make a good model of that prototype, and I would enjoy watching progress.
But, to answer your question. Steve Cook pointed me in the direction of AnD a while back. I'm not sure if they still do, but they then offered scratchbuilding aids for various passenger and NPCS; primarily 7mm and LSWR if I recall but other options available.
One G3 item on their list at that time was a LYR Dia 109 Horse Box so I purchased one.
This photo of the covering slip says it all really. I haven't even opened the bag properly yet so can't give a critique, but a quick look shows various sheets of nicely scribed plasticard. It very much is how AnD desribe it themselves- an 'Aid to Modelling'.
I also unfortunately don't know whether they still offer the service.
But, personally I think you should do the LB&SCR vehicle.
Jamie

 

[Jon Nazareth]

Jamie
Thanks for the info re the AnD kit and do you know, I think I have one of those kits somewhere must have bought it ages ago, how one forgets. I have the 7mm version of the small LBSCR horse box as a kit but not attempted the build as yet. I've spent quite a while this afternoon looking at the general arrangement drawing that came with it (I'll try and upload it later) trying to work out how the prototype was built, not easy for me, at least, hence the request for a kit. I've even ordered a couple of drawings from the HMRS of the slightly larger version hoping that they will give me some tips. I expect them to arrive this week so, fingers crossed. I'll have to do some more head scratching before I decide if I think that I can do it though.

Jon

 

[jamiepage]

Jon,
Horseboxes make very attractive models; one of the most attractive features is the often multi- layered effect of part planking, part panelling, framing, and the odd louvre thrown in as well.
The thumbnail shows a 7mm horsebox I made a while back, but unfortunately took no photos during construction.
Basically I cut a one piece blank out for the complete side including oversized window cut out.
I then, if memory serves, used a nominal .040 thickness for building up the side proper, chosen to give enough depth to the louvres (7mm scale).
So framing (top, bottom, end verticals and between horse flap and compartment etc) was built up with .040 thick strips. Horse flaps were cut from scribed .040 sheet and fitted into place leaving a slight gap all round. Ditto louvres. The panelled grooms compartment had the planking recessed slightly when compared with the horse flaps, so the section was first filled with .030 sheet then .010 framing added.
Strapping etc then added as normal.
I suspect the blank on which it was all built up was .060.
That did mean the total thickness was something like .100, all of which had to be allowed for when cutting the ends, and indeed disguised. Either disguised as part of a corner pillar, or covered by end detail, or rebated somehow.
Sorry that's a bit vague. But I do recall starting with the louvre panels on the principle that if they didn't turn out well, then there was little point going on. Building them up with separate louvres might work in G3 perhaps?
Jamie

 

[oldravendale]

I can't find my thread about the LMS van I built from a AnD kit but, just a warning. It was dimensionally accurate but there were a number of layers and ultimately they started to delaminate or bubbles appeared in the larger laminated areas. Most frustrating when the vehicle was all but finished and in line ready for painting!

Of course, these problems may well be down to my lack of knowledge about how to build from styrene

Brian

 

[jamiepage]

Ah yes, I recall that thread now, Brian, thank you.
I shall make a note to read it before attempting the model.
Jamie

 

[Jon Nazareth]

Jamie
That's a nice looking model. I have an MSWJR horse box in 7mm that, once again, I've yet to build but I want to finish the layout before I get back to any 7mm kits. Yes, I did think about separate louvres too but not too sure where to begin. But, I really must finish that brake van first. I quite like horse boxes but I can't figure out why. I must have half a dozen or so waiting to be built, I did have more but I sold some as they were a bit late in date for me.

Brian
Joining largeish sheets of styrene have me worried too and the thought of trapping air may one of the reasons that I've left it on the shelf. How can I find your thread on it's build? I'm sure that it will make interesting reading.

Jon

 

[daifly]

I can't find my thread about the LMS van I built from a AnD kit

Brian
It's here
Dave

 

[oldravendale]

That's the one, Dave! Thank you for finding it.

The kit made up really well and was an enjoyable build. In fact I have an identical kit ready to attack as I was so pleased with the result but I don't yet have the enthusiasm to create another model which then fails at the last. When I get to it I'll be a lot more careful about my assembly methods.

Brian

 

[Mike W]

Hmm, I guess putting it together, adding all the strapping, beading, hinges etc etc and then casting a one piece resin from it would be a copyright infringement. The L&Y kit was made from a Barry Lane drawing which he very slightly misunderstood - and then sent out complete new kits to anyone who bought the early incorrect ones. Now, anyone can make a mistake but if somebody goes to that trouble to correct it I'm not going to take advantage of him by casting from it, even if it is legal. Maybe he would allow it for a smallish royalty payment?

Horseboxes are great because they travelled far away from their home railway and were all different shapes and colours.

Mike

 

[Jon Nazareth]

Dave/Brian
That's a Covered Carriage Truck. Did you make a horsebox, Brian?

Jon

 

[oldravendale]

No, John, never made a horsebox yet. My comments are just a warning about the limitations of AnD kits.

Brian