Heljan 7mm Wagons

[djparkins]

There is no real equivalent of Hornby/Bachmann, where you buy stuff ready finished, although there are ranges like Forces of Valour. The focus of the 'average modeller' is buying and assembling a kit of a Challenger tank rather than buying a Bachmann 66, slopping a bit of muck on and running it. At the 'serious' end there is much less difference, where you are talking about kit/scratchbuilding, indeed it could be argued that there is more skill involved in assembling an etched kit than a Tamiya kit. When I have shown some AFV modellers an MMP GUV their jaw dropped at the detail and work involved, not to mention soldering

Indeed! - but we have gotten a few of the military & ship guys soldering now!

 

[28ten]

I quite agree, Jordan. It's an interesting subject though
My concern for the future is that the hobby as a whole ends up like the manufacturing in this country, ie unable to make anything because we have been buying cheap imports for so many years, and the skills and facilities have been lost.

 

[Ian G]

Nothing realy compares to MMP kits, after building 7 Dogfish and looking at what come closer, not much of a competition, the PMRPR OAA that i have got will get wooden sides as the effort into scribing plasticard is not worth it, once I have mastered the planks I will scratch build the rest I need, the Heljan model will be used for comparison.

Ian G

 

[Pugsley]

I do find Military/Aero modelling and railways a totally different hobby, and not for the obvious reason, but because in military/aero the build is the thing and it is where the pleasure is derived, you dont do anything with the model afterwards.

That sounds pretty much like my approach to railway modelling!

 

[Pugsley]

Personally, I'm starting out fairly low.

It's a good place to start. Setting the bar too high to begin with just leads to frustration and a lack of enjoyment - ask me how I know....

I suppose one has to look at the market to fully understand sales. I would say there are more people who don't have the time or skill to realise their railway ambitions than there have been previously. But that's just a guess.

Of those, the biggest one is probably the lack of time. Skills can be gained, time seems to be a very precious commodity these days. I guess it's the whole cash rich*, time poor trade-off and it's partly people in that situation I guess that Heljan are aiming at.

* - I appreciate that 'rich' is a relative term.

 

[Pugsley]

My concern for the future is that the hobby as a whole ends up like the manufacturing in this country, ie unable to make anything because we have been buying cheap imports for so many years, and the skills and facilities have been lost.

I don't think so, the tide of imports looks to have started to turn slowly. The knowledge is still out there in the world, and we now have the internet to help us access it. It might take a bit of practice, but I don't think we're done for yet.

 

[Pugsley]

Well, for me ten VAA's for £500 is a bargain and unless Heljan really muck them up, there is currently no other product available. Even the MIGO/Model Express version is no longer available.


Anyways, I'm waiting for Pugsley to produce his IZA twin set. I'm his first buyer.

Thanks Phil , they'll be ready soon(ish), I hope.

You could well have had a VAA available to the same standard as the IZA in a similar time frame as the Heljan one though - it was going to be my next project, I'd measured one up earlier in the year. I'll hold off now and see what kind of job Heljan make of it, I have no qualms in using it as a base if it is any good, though.

It's possibly no bad thing though, the time saved by not doing the VAA could be put towards one of my acid tank projects instead.

 

[28ten]

I don't think so, the tide of imports looks to have started to turn slowly. The knowledge is still out there in the world, and we now have the internet to help us access it. It might take a bit of practice, but I don't think we're done for yet.

You are more optimistic than me

 

[djparkins]

I guess it's the whole cash rich*, time poor trade-off and it's partly people in that situation I guess that Heljan are aiming at.

Martin -

The next few years will see many many more people who are cash poor [or at least cash strapped compared to how they were before!] and maybe with a little more time on their hands too, as working hours are cut etc. As I've said before - pricing is becoming ever-more critical. We haven't really seen it full-on yet buts it coming.

I was talking to one of my three major suppliers last week and we both agreed that this is not a recession. This is the climate and the new reality that we all have to survive in - and its never going back to how it was pre-2008-10. The big question will be just what is the level that it all bottoms out at. I sound like Paul Mason on Newsnight!

7mm producers [kit or RTR] won't be able to rely just on £4-500 items - they'll have to have some £20-40 items too. Modellers will keep buying [all part of keeping their interest levels up] but they'll want an alternative to £500 locos when they don't know if they'll have a job next week.

Regards,

DJP

 

[djparkins]

Nothing realy compares to MMP kits, after building 7 Dogfish and looking at what come closer, not much of a competition, the PMRPR OAA that i have got will get wooden sides as the effort into scribing plasticard is not worth it, once I have mastered the planks I will scratch build the rest I need, the Heljan model will be used for comparison.

Ian G

Thanks Ian -

Working on the ZUV Shark [& its LMS Oyster forerunner] this very night!

Regards,

DJP

 

[Pugsley]

I was talking to one of my three major suppliers last week and we both agreed that this is not a recession. This is the climate and the new reality that we all have to survive in - and its never going back to how it was pre-2008-10. The big question will be just what is the level that it all bottoms out at. I sound like Paul Mason on Newsnight!

I quite agree, 2000-2007 was not anywhere near approaching normal and we are currently in the new reality.

I also agree that this isn't a normal cyclical recession. It's something far, far nastier, possibly the bursting of a 40 year credit bubble depending on how you look at things.

 

[Pennine MC]

My concern for the future is that the hobby as a whole ends up like the manufacturing in this country, ie unable to make anything because we have been buying cheap imports for so many years, and the skills and facilities have been lost.

An understandable concern, but as yet I'm far from convinced that we're doomed.

Chatting about this over teatime, my wife (who works in secondary education) said that creativity and self-reliance is increasingly promoted these days rather than spoon feeding, and my daughter and her BF have both graduated in graphic design. Broad, random comments I know, but more directly relevant to the hobby, I've lost count of the number of Metcalf (card building) kits crossing the counter of my local model shop, and many of them to youngsters whose pocket money wont stretch to Skaledale et al.

From the 'doing' end, I've always felt that there will always be people who feel the creative urge and in that sense, I dont think a hobby would follow the path of commercial enterprise. That said, I accept that the current manufacturing situation is a game changer if you're *in* business *in* the hobby, but I still can't subscribe to the 'RTR/RTP is evil' philosophy.

 

[Ian G]

one item for wagons I would like is suspension unit for converting a slaters vac brake in to an air brake wagon, i think its a FAT 19 the same for the Pipe wagons.

Ian G

 

[28ten]

An understandable concern, but as yet I'm far from convinced that we're doomed.

Chatting about this over teatime, my wife (who works in secondary education) said that creativity and self-reliance is increasingly promoted these days rather than spoon feeding, and my daughter and her BF have both graduated in graphic design. Broad, random comments I know, but more directly relevant to the hobby, I've lost count of the number of Metcalf (card building) kits crossing the counter of my local model shop, and many of them to youngsters whose pocket money wont stretch to Skaledale et al.

From the 'doing' end, I've always felt that there will always be people who feel the creative urge and in that sense, I dont think a hobby would follow the path of commercial enterprise. That said, I accept that the current manufacturing situation is a game changer if you're *in* business *in* the hobby, but I still can't subscribe to the 'RTR/RTP is evil' philosophy.

Im not sure it is evil -I own items myself- but I do think it can lead to a certain sameness and over reliance on manufactured products unless used judiciously.

 

[Steph Dale]

I quite agree, Jordan. It's an interesting subject though
My concern for the future is that the hobby as a whole ends up like the manufacturing in this country, ie unable to make anything because we have been buying cheap imports for so many years, and the skills and facilities have been lost.

Erm, except, actually, that really isn't the problem (although much of the press would have us believe it's the case).

A someone who is directly involved with the issue of 'Sovereign Capability', it appears to me that the problem with manufacturing (and engineering in the whole) in this country has more to do with the lack of a joined-up education policy which is proving incapable of encouraging teenagers into the sciences and engineering. The skills drain isn't because of the decline; it's the other way around...

And we still lead the world in cost-effective small production volumes of bespoke or precision products - in any field of engineering.

Anyway - this is getting somewhat off topic, and has little to do with toy trains, so I apologise (a little!) for the rejoinder.

Steph

 

[marsa69]

Just to add my two penneth worth on a subject that keeps cropping up on what appears to be every forum I've ever been a member of (don't you go pointing that finger of blame at me Herr Colonel).

We all agree it's a hobby and that everyone who follows it follows it to their own skill set and what they want to 'get out' of the hobby. That may mean splashing a bit of paint onto a RTR model on the one hand to the uber-detailed masterpieces, and I'm thinking back to Simon Varnams class 58 bogies, on the other. Even if the clones appear to be taking over with what are regarded as identical models it will just enhance the moment when a truly outstanding model comes along to present a stark contrast.

As I posted in another thread on here about best layouts the more serious modellers amongst will realize our own limitations when it comes to our individual skill set but by 'eck we won't half give it a go to improve and if we don't then we'll have a bloody good bit of fun along the way. I maybe firmly entrenched and downright happy at the back of the class, hanging out the fire escape and watching the girls rounders team but I do cast envious glances sometimes to the front That's what I want out of this hobby. The chance to expand my skills, acquire the models, memory lane reminders and last of all the adventures of Lego Man and the continuing saga of the Blue Brigade. In short, models, memories and laughs

 

[SteveO]

The next few years will see many many more people who are cash poor [or at least cash strapped compared to how they were before!]
Regards,
DJP

And so will you be if you don't charge for your goods!

I was just looking over your gaff to get some prices of bits (you are going to Reading, aren't you?) and noticed a lot of your items seem to be free. I was just about to load up my trolley on a dash around your web store when I noticed that these items are for 'future release'. Any news on the release date?

Can you let me know how I could convince you to produce a Met-Camm Lightweight or any other 1st Gen DMU please?

 

[28ten]

Erm, except, actually, that really isn't the problem (although much of the press would have us believe it's the case).

A someone who is directly involved with the issue of 'Sovereign Capability', it appears to me that the problem with manufacturing (and engineering in the whole) in this country has more to do with the lack of a joined-up education policy which is proving incapable of encouraging teenagers into the sciences and engineering. The skills drain isn't because of the decline; it's the other way around...

And we still lead the world in cost-effective small production volumes of bespoke or precision products - in any field of engineering.

Anyway - this is getting somewhat off topic, and has little to do with toy trains, so I apologise (a little!) for the rejoinder.

Steph

I'm not sure. I was asked to teach a introduction to Solidworks at a college and we had 3 takers, there just wasn't the interest. I know that it could be due to lots of factors, but other engineering courses struggled as well. When surveyed the general response was that there is no future in it, or that it's too dirty!

 

[djparkins]

And so will you be if you don't charge for your goods!

I was just looking over your gaff to get some prices of bits (you are going to Reading, aren't you?) and noticed a lot of your items seem to be free. I was just about to load up my trolley on a dash around your web store when I noticed that these items are for 'future release'. Any news on the release date?

Can you let me know how I could convince you to produce a Met-Camm Lightweight or any other 1st Gen DMU please?

Not sure I know what a gaff is - but cannot list prices when we don't know what they will be!

Reading - I think that must be OUTSIDE of Wales!!!

 

[Pugsley]

I'm not sure. I was asked to teach a introduction to Solidworks at a college and we had 3 takers, there just wasn't the interest. I know that it could be due to lots of factors, but other engineering courses struggled as well. When surveyed the general response was that there is no future in it, or that it's too dirty!

I think the start of exporting manufacturing and engineering jobs started the decline, and since then the decline is self-perpetuating. Why invest the time and money training yourself for a career that is most likely going to be offshored in the pursuit of a fast buck.

Another large part of the problem is that our society places no 'status' on engineers and scientists. It's not perceived as glamourous, nor is it particularly well rewarded. Is it any wonder that kids today want to be footballers and celebrities, or win the X Factor? It's where the money is (or at least, appears to be).

If it wasn't for my hobby, I don't think I'd have got too involved with it, but now I have, I find the possibilities fascinating. Still, I've never minded getting my hands dirty (isn't this why soap was invented?) and there is a certain amount of satisfaction to be had when you design and make something to solve a problem.