Grahame's N/2mm bashes
- Thread starter Grahame Hedges
- Start date
Mike W
Western Thunderer
Superb Grahame. I worked there for about 25 years from the mid/late 1970s but so much has changed now, only Southwark Cathedral looks similar. In the mid 70s it was not a place for women in our offices to be out alone at night, so if late working was required they got a taxi home. Much improved now except for the odd "major incident" just across the road.
Mike
Mike
Grahame Hedges
Western Thunderer
Many thanks for the complimentary comments and 'likes'.
One other aspect of layout building I've been tackling recently is road vehicles. Unfortunately it’s very slim pickings for British N gauge modellers (1:148 scale) of suitable RTP or kit road vehicles especially for the mid 1970s to mid 1990s. There are some Continental and American offerings but they are under-scale at 1:160 and usually of foreign looking left-hand drive types. Oxford Die-Cast do produce a range of British vehicles in 1:148 scale but they are heavily skewed to the steam era market, particularly the 1950s and 1960s (although they have produced a few 21st century models), and they seem to have significantly scaled back effort and output on newly developed models in N/2mm of any period in recent years. It’s likewise for the R Parker range of N/2mm white metal kits – they are mainly interwar types. Tomytec produce high quality RTP vehicles in 1:150 scale but they can be difficult to track down and the range for the period is very limited and of Japanese types (although they are right hand drive and often seen in the UK).
That means I've resorted to bashing what is available and using 3D printed ones from the likes of RailNScale and Soehaves Workshop (available from Shapeways). And here's a few:
Above: This is a 3D printed Soehaves Ford D800 (later version) tractor unit with a hacked Tomytec trailer chassis and scratch-built tank body. The cab mounted Courage golden cockerel mascot is a white metal casting and a little overscale and blobby, but otherwise is prototypical.
Above : This fuel tanker has a 3D printed cab (Scania 140/141 day cab) on a bashed Tomytec tractor chassis and a heavily modified (to hopefully back date it) Tomytec tanker trailer. Here (below) is a pic of the original Tomytec tanker (which has a Hino cab that can currently be seen in the UK) and which now no longer exists as a model. I've cut back the tank length, removed the side underrun protection, other gubbins and catwalks and replaced the rear wheel mudguards with rounded ones:
Finally, for lorries is the one below. It's a 3D printed cab (Scania 141) with a scratch built flat trailer and load:
It's based roughly on this:
That's it for articulated trucks, although I do have some period rigid trucks, vans, cars and buses.
G
One other aspect of layout building I've been tackling recently is road vehicles. Unfortunately it’s very slim pickings for British N gauge modellers (1:148 scale) of suitable RTP or kit road vehicles especially for the mid 1970s to mid 1990s. There are some Continental and American offerings but they are under-scale at 1:160 and usually of foreign looking left-hand drive types. Oxford Die-Cast do produce a range of British vehicles in 1:148 scale but they are heavily skewed to the steam era market, particularly the 1950s and 1960s (although they have produced a few 21st century models), and they seem to have significantly scaled back effort and output on newly developed models in N/2mm of any period in recent years. It’s likewise for the R Parker range of N/2mm white metal kits – they are mainly interwar types. Tomytec produce high quality RTP vehicles in 1:150 scale but they can be difficult to track down and the range for the period is very limited and of Japanese types (although they are right hand drive and often seen in the UK).
That means I've resorted to bashing what is available and using 3D printed ones from the likes of RailNScale and Soehaves Workshop (available from Shapeways). And here's a few:
Above: This is a 3D printed Soehaves Ford D800 (later version) tractor unit with a hacked Tomytec trailer chassis and scratch-built tank body. The cab mounted Courage golden cockerel mascot is a white metal casting and a little overscale and blobby, but otherwise is prototypical.
Above : This fuel tanker has a 3D printed cab (Scania 140/141 day cab) on a bashed Tomytec tractor chassis and a heavily modified (to hopefully back date it) Tomytec tanker trailer. Here (below) is a pic of the original Tomytec tanker (which has a Hino cab that can currently be seen in the UK) and which now no longer exists as a model. I've cut back the tank length, removed the side underrun protection, other gubbins and catwalks and replaced the rear wheel mudguards with rounded ones:
Finally, for lorries is the one below. It's a 3D printed cab (Scania 141) with a scratch built flat trailer and load:
It's based roughly on this:
That's it for articulated trucks, although I do have some period rigid trucks, vans, cars and buses.
G
Grahame Hedges
Western Thunderer
Ha ha, I try, Fawlty, I try. But there's some epic modelling on this forum (and better than my efforts).
Anyway back to tiny N/2mm vehicles. Blow are two 2-axle flat back trucks, both 3D printed and made as supplied. On the left is a Soehaves Ford D800 (early type) and on the right a RailNScale DAF ('club-of-four' cube cab) with hiab.
'Club-of-Four' was a European based alliance of four truck manufacturers from the early 1970s: Dutch DAF; German Magirus-Deutz (Owned by Iveco who later dropped the MD name); French Saviem (who later merged and became RVI Renault); and Swedish Volvo. They produced a common cab design which was used by those manufacturers on many of their light to medium weight trucks although they were more common in continental Europe. Examples used in Britain included the Volvo F7 from 1978, Renault’s C and G series, and DAF F series until they merged with Leyland in 1987 and adopted Leyland cabs. The model supplied by RailNscale includes four cab grille inserts to represent each of the various manufacturers.
Below is another Club-of Four truck (I ordered a discounted pack of two from Shapeways), this time a Volvo cab type. The model was originally an open chassis type but has been bashed in to a skip lorry by the addition of a plasticard scratch-built rear body and an etched BHE skip.
Below is a RailNScale 3D printed Volvo F10 tractor unit, again made as supplied, finished and painted.
Finally for trucks is the (below) Scania heavyweight 4-axle dustcart. This has a cut down Hong Kong JetFlame Scania 310 cab from a Fire appliance model and a scratch built body. It's based on a real vehicle but is really too modern for my intended layout so probably won't feature.
Here's the original RTP JetFlame model cab/chassis (less the body which had a ladder on it):
G
Grahame Hedges
Western Thunderer
Turning to vans, the scourge of London traffic - white van man. And here's a phalanx of some of mine:
All above are 3D printed models. From left to right are a Ford Transit I (I need to do something about the fit of the windscreen), a Mercedes Benz T1, a Commer Walk-thru, a Renault Mk1 Trafic T800 and a hi-roof Renault Trafic T1000. All are RailNscale kits except the Commer Walk-thru van which is from Osborns Arch Laser. I did purchase a pack of three Commer Walk Thru vans which are shown here below before installation of windscreens (which is a fiddly operation as they are cut and shaped from clear plastic):
In addition to 3D printed models (in acrylic resin/plastic) I have some white metal kits, mainly of R Parker Ford Transits Mk1s. Below is a comparison of the white metal kit and the 3D printed kit of the short wheelbase version. Like just about all my models there is further work required to finish them and for vehicles that includes fitting glazing, number plates and so on:
Next is buses and cars, that's if anyone is interested.
G
All above are 3D printed models. From left to right are a Ford Transit I (I need to do something about the fit of the windscreen), a Mercedes Benz T1, a Commer Walk-thru, a Renault Mk1 Trafic T800 and a hi-roof Renault Trafic T1000. All are RailNscale kits except the Commer Walk-thru van which is from Osborns Arch Laser. I did purchase a pack of three Commer Walk Thru vans which are shown here below before installation of windscreens (which is a fiddly operation as they are cut and shaped from clear plastic):
In addition to 3D printed models (in acrylic resin/plastic) I have some white metal kits, mainly of R Parker Ford Transits Mk1s. Below is a comparison of the white metal kit and the 3D printed kit of the short wheelbase version. Like just about all my models there is further work required to finish them and for vehicles that includes fitting glazing, number plates and so on:
Next is buses and cars, that's if anyone is interested.
G
Grahame Hedges
Western Thunderer
Here's some 3D printed cars. They are supplied as simple kits (just two parts) but do need cleaning, preparation - which is mainly trying to eradicate the interminable stratification ridges (as I understand Shapeways use layer deposition printing rather than SLA) - and painting. And then glazing, which can involve trying to cut and file to shape tiny pieces of clear plastic although size window glazing is usually done with Micro-glaze or Kristal Klear. The pound coin is to provide a sense of scale and give an idea of the tiny size of these models:
Above: A Ford Escort XR3i and Peugeot 504 estate. Both are from RailNScale. Below: An original Mk1 Range Rover, a broken-down BMW and a modified milk float. The milk float is from Osborns Arch Laser British classic commercials range while the other two are from RailNscale. The milk float looks rather large but then the milkman could stand in the cab while driving it (AFAIR)
G
Above: A Ford Escort XR3i and Peugeot 504 estate. Both are from RailNScale. Below: An original Mk1 Range Rover, a broken-down BMW and a modified milk float. The milk float is from Osborns Arch Laser British classic commercials range while the other two are from RailNscale. The milk float looks rather large but then the milkman could stand in the cab while driving it (AFAIR)
G
Yorkshire Dave
Western Thunderer
Yes please.
For the buses I assume there will be a proliferation of Routemasters, DMSs and the odd Leyland National on the Red Arrow services (these route numbers were in the 500 series).
Grahame Hedges
Western Thunderer
That would be nice, but to a large extent it's dependant on what's available in N/2mm scale that I can work with. The Farish/Scenecraft model of the Leyland National, although a very nice representation, was produced in error at a scale even smaller than 1:160 and looks tiny against other vehicles. And the Oxford DieCast AEC Routemaster is very chunky with a rear platform a scale yard thick (that passengers would need a step ladder to board) and with sides so thick that the windows have huge wide sills that could easily accommodate window boxes suitable for planting spuds. Plus they don't produce a long (RML) version.
In addition to those I would also like some Leyland Titans and AEC Swift/Merlin single deckers. But's that very unlikely:
G
Grahame Hedges
Western Thunderer
I'll start with some odd-ball bus models that are probably not suitable - out of period, area and so on. Firstly a couple of Cars Workshop Dennis Dart/Plaxton Pointer 2s that have been bashed (cut down from a SLD variant) and repainted from the Hong Kong KMB 1:150 bus models. The smaller one is a single door short version in Go-Ahead London Central livery:
Next below is a Volvo B7TL/Wright Eclipse Gemini that has been cut and shut from a three axle Hong Kong KMV version. It's also been repainted in to Arriva London Buses livery but unfortunately no suitable decals exist. These entered service in London in 2001 (too late for my layout project):
Next below is a MCV Mk2 Metrobus built from a P&D Marsh white metal kit:
Below is a AEC Routemaster built from a BHE white metal kit with added details and plastic wheels from a Tomytec lorry. The glazing, formed of Micro-glaze has gone somewhat milky. And the second pic shows the comparison with the ODC version;
Next Daimler/Leyland Fleetlines (DMSs)
G
Next below is a Volvo B7TL/Wright Eclipse Gemini that has been cut and shut from a three axle Hong Kong KMV version. It's also been repainted in to Arriva London Buses livery but unfortunately no suitable decals exist. These entered service in London in 2001 (too late for my layout project):
Next below is a MCV Mk2 Metrobus built from a P&D Marsh white metal kit:
Below is a AEC Routemaster built from a BHE white metal kit with added details and plastic wheels from a Tomytec lorry. The glazing, formed of Micro-glaze has gone somewhat milky. And the second pic shows the comparison with the ODC version;
Next Daimler/Leyland Fleetlines (DMSs)
G
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Yorkshire Dave
Western Thunderer
The ODC RM front end is more akin to the old trolleybuses. I see what you mean about the rear platform.
The BHE kit looks like an RM. If the kit is still available could you do a cut and shut i.e. insert a half window section in to make a RML? Looks like you can possibly get four RMLs from five RM kits.
The BHE kit looks like an RM. If the kit is still available could you do a cut and shut i.e. insert a half window section in to make a RML? Looks like you can possibly get four RMLs from five RM kits.
Grahame Hedges
Western Thunderer
Unfortunately BHE no longer produce and sell that RM kit so it's down to the ODC ones. I've currently five of the ODC RMs and it looks like I'll need to undertake a programme of improvement - *sigh*, something else to put on the to do list.
I'll have to try and cut away the platforms and replace them and the poles with something more suitable. Plus the front drivers windows are too small so will need enlarging and adding the horizontal glazing bar that separates the main screen from the opening bottom light. Then I'll have to see what I can do about the recessed window glazing . . . That's the problem of ODC they always seem to spoil the final model for no apparent reasons with inaccuracies and bodges. They've even managed to get the wheel colours wrong. They are not the red body colour (as ODC have painted them) but should be a maroon/brown colour.
And worse is that the RMs are cast in a hard metal (like Mazac) making alterations difficult and which also causes the thick sides that mean the glazing is recessed leaving wide window sills. Their newer N PSV vehicles tend to be clear plastic shells which when the painted/printed livery is applied leaves flush glazed windows.
G.
Grahame Hedges
Western Thunderer
The salvation for N/2mm Daimler/Leyland Fleetline buses came in the form of Cars Workshop 1:150 scale Kowloon Motor Bus Co models of the old LT DMS sold to them and TPM etched detailing parts to convert them back to UK types. Below are the dismantled bus models in their KMB livery and the TPM etch:
It is then a simple mater to add the etched parts (doors and window opening frames), repaint and reassemble. I've got five completed (pictured below) with various doors and including one 'white top' B20 variant with scratch-built rear engine chimneys. I was fortunate that my sister is BA cabin crew and on one of her trips to Hong Kong she scoured the model shops and purchased the remaining stocks for me. As a result I do have a batch of others partially converted including five LT and another two that I was going to paint in Greater Manchester Transport livery. They've never been finished and the pic below is as far as I got :
I have also tried to bash one of the five unfinished LT ones into a Leyland Titan. Even though it's a fairly cuboid shape it's a tricky proposition as the bottom deck windows are a lot larger and in a different configuration as well there being an angle inwards to the top deck and more rounded corners. It wasn't a great success and never progressed past this stage:
G
It is then a simple mater to add the etched parts (doors and window opening frames), repaint and reassemble. I've got five completed (pictured below) with various doors and including one 'white top' B20 variant with scratch-built rear engine chimneys. I was fortunate that my sister is BA cabin crew and on one of her trips to Hong Kong she scoured the model shops and purchased the remaining stocks for me. As a result I do have a batch of others partially converted including five LT and another two that I was going to paint in Greater Manchester Transport livery. They've never been finished and the pic below is as far as I got :
I have also tried to bash one of the five unfinished LT ones into a Leyland Titan. Even though it's a fairly cuboid shape it's a tricky proposition as the bottom deck windows are a lot larger and in a different configuration as well there being an angle inwards to the top deck and more rounded corners. It wasn't a great success and never progressed past this stage:
G
Yorkshire Dave
Western Thunderer
The DMSs look really good, especially with the etched detail parts.
Yorkshire Dave
Western Thunderer
If these are of any use - two of my very few photos of DMSs
Potters Bar (PB) based DMS 1912 at St Albans Garage (SA) - terminus for route 84. Taken during 1977-85.
And another outside Kingston-Upon-Thames station on route 85 - taken during the same 1977-85 period. An earlier series as the head and sidelights are in different positions. This was taken in fading light).
Potters Bar (PB) based DMS 1912 at St Albans Garage (SA) - terminus for route 84. Taken during 1977-85.
And another outside Kingston-Upon-Thames station on route 85 - taken during the same 1977-85 period. An earlier series as the head and sidelights are in different positions. This was taken in fading light).
Grahame Hedges
Western Thunderer
Thanks for those. I remember rattling down the Old Kent Road in those on my way to work in the mid 70s when they were relatively new and still had the automatic fare payment and turnstile machinery installed. This website offers some good detail and information on all types of London Buses:
http://www.countrybus.org/DMS/DMS1.htm
http://www.countrybus.org/DMS/DMS2.htm
G
http://www.countrybus.org/DMS/DMS1.htm
http://www.countrybus.org/DMS/DMS2.htm
G
Grahame Hedges
Western Thunderer
I've been renovating an old model of a 2-EPB that I made many years ago - and the renovation is also taking years. It's an unmotorized model but can easily be hitched to the back of a powered unit. I wanted to change it's livery from green to blue and correct the underframe details as best I could.
I stripped down the body, roof, bogies, etc., and then pared the sides off (they were etched brass ones from BHE - not brilliant) and bearing in mind this is an N/2mm model felt that the cab ends (TPM moulding from his 419 MLV kit) were still pretty good, so I've left them. There is a snag with the side overlays in that they are not tall enough to cover the entire height of the Farish bodies they go on. So bearing in mind that a lot of units had strengthening strips fitted along the bottom of the bodysides have added strips of styrene to fill the gap.
I need to paint the strips to match the body side colour and then I'll re-check. The sides also need another coat - they've been painted with a brush using very much thinned down paint and the dried finish doesn't look too bad (IMO). If it all looks okay when painted I'll fit the strips to the other coach which is quite a tricky job to get them on with a straight top edge.
G
I stripped down the body, roof, bogies, etc., and then pared the sides off (they were etched brass ones from BHE - not brilliant) and bearing in mind this is an N/2mm model felt that the cab ends (TPM moulding from his 419 MLV kit) were still pretty good, so I've left them. There is a snag with the side overlays in that they are not tall enough to cover the entire height of the Farish bodies they go on. So bearing in mind that a lot of units had strengthening strips fitted along the bottom of the bodysides have added strips of styrene to fill the gap.
I need to paint the strips to match the body side colour and then I'll re-check. The sides also need another coat - they've been painted with a brush using very much thinned down paint and the dried finish doesn't look too bad (IMO). If it all looks okay when painted I'll fit the strips to the other coach which is quite a tricky job to get them on with a straight top edge.
G
Grahame Hedges
Western Thunderer
My modelling has been a little sparse lately but on Saturday I went to TINGS to see if I could get some inspiration. Overall the show this year was okay but could've been better. They need more chairs around the tables at the downstairs tea/coffee bar. There's plenty of traders but some N/2mm niches are not catered for and modelling materials (like paint, plasticard and tools) were very sparse. There were some good layouts like 'Loch Tat', 'Low Yard Junction', 'Dentdale', 'Sutton St Anns', and 'Marx Engels Platz' but there are too many small roundy-roundy train set types set in Metcalfeshire. However, the best thing is the opportunity to meet-up and chat with many one doesn't often see and meet new enthusiasts.
I mentioned earlier in this thread that ideally I'd like to see a decent LT Leyland Titan (B15) bus in N gauge - either RTP or kit. They were pretty commonplace throughout London for the era I'm looking to model. And while at TINGS I picked up an N gauge scale 3D printed Titan by N-Train. It's a very basic model but does include an lower and upper deck interior and size is pretty much spot on scale-wise.
Unfortunately it's printed in that white rough 'dentine/concrete' type acrylic and is going to need a lot of work to smooth and finish to an acceptable standard (although the wheels are printed in a finer detail material - possible FUD). And the more I look at the model the more I realise there is lots to do. It has been designed/produced very boxy which is fair enough as the bus is very cuboid in shape apart from the upper windows that slope in at an angle. But everything is too flat and square: the windows don't seem to have curved corners, the roof is flat with no slight doming and profile details; the edge of the roof is sharply right angled with the sides/ends; there is no curvature across the front driving end (it's just flat); and even the body bottom edge is straight without the angled rise behind the rear wheels.
See below for comparison of the rear end with, from left, the real thing, middle, an unfinished bashing project to convert a Fleetline and, right, the 3D print.
The printing material is horrible stuff, rough and very resistant to filing (I've made a mental note to avoid in future). As it will cut I've opened out the rear window opening and the rear upper deck window/escape door (both were far too small) and cut a slope on the bodyside bottom edge behind the rear wheels (I might need to increase that). I've also undertaken several rounds of filing, priming and re-filing including trying to round off the roof corners. But it's still not satisfactory and looks like it has been cast from concrete. It's going to take a lot more effort to get it smooth, acceptable and ready to add some details.
The lack of front end and roof curviture/doming is a big problem and necessary to capture the bus characteristics. Here's a pic that shows the lacking front curve compared with, from left, an EFE 4mm die-cast model and my effort to bash a Fleetline in to a Titan (unfortunately the side window arrangement is wrong and the Fleetline is a little shorter):
G
I mentioned earlier in this thread that ideally I'd like to see a decent LT Leyland Titan (B15) bus in N gauge - either RTP or kit. They were pretty commonplace throughout London for the era I'm looking to model. And while at TINGS I picked up an N gauge scale 3D printed Titan by N-Train. It's a very basic model but does include an lower and upper deck interior and size is pretty much spot on scale-wise.
Unfortunately it's printed in that white rough 'dentine/concrete' type acrylic and is going to need a lot of work to smooth and finish to an acceptable standard (although the wheels are printed in a finer detail material - possible FUD). And the more I look at the model the more I realise there is lots to do. It has been designed/produced very boxy which is fair enough as the bus is very cuboid in shape apart from the upper windows that slope in at an angle. But everything is too flat and square: the windows don't seem to have curved corners, the roof is flat with no slight doming and profile details; the edge of the roof is sharply right angled with the sides/ends; there is no curvature across the front driving end (it's just flat); and even the body bottom edge is straight without the angled rise behind the rear wheels.
See below for comparison of the rear end with, from left, the real thing, middle, an unfinished bashing project to convert a Fleetline and, right, the 3D print.
The printing material is horrible stuff, rough and very resistant to filing (I've made a mental note to avoid in future). As it will cut I've opened out the rear window opening and the rear upper deck window/escape door (both were far too small) and cut a slope on the bodyside bottom edge behind the rear wheels (I might need to increase that). I've also undertaken several rounds of filing, priming and re-filing including trying to round off the roof corners. But it's still not satisfactory and looks like it has been cast from concrete. It's going to take a lot more effort to get it smooth, acceptable and ready to add some details.
The lack of front end and roof curviture/doming is a big problem and necessary to capture the bus characteristics. Here's a pic that shows the lacking front curve compared with, from left, an EFE 4mm die-cast model and my effort to bash a Fleetline in to a Titan (unfortunately the side window arrangement is wrong and the Fleetline is a little shorter):
G
Tim Watson
Western Thunderer
It’s almost a case of ‘If I was going there, I wouldn’t start here’. Very frustrating. There is some truly wonderful stuff being produced by 3D printing in 2mm scale nowadays, but obviously not with this particular technology.
Tim
Tim
Yorkshire Dave
Western Thunderer
It's interesting to see someone has taken the idea to produce 2mm model buses of prototypes not commercially available so to speak.
Having seen the photos and read your 'Titan Trials' I would feel the same way and probably not even touched the model given the amount of work to clean and correct minor inaccuracies.
Could the N scale Leyland Atlantean provide a starting point or is it the wrong shape?