Freelance early steel wagon

[Jon Nazareth]

Brian/Nick
Both good ideas. I’m just about to venture out to the shed to cut the brass floors, I may be sometime.

The picture below shows some Mark Wood wheels that I intend to use on one of the wagons. I wanted to make up some all brass wheels with straight spokes but the more I thought about it, the more troublesome it seemed to become. A chap in Australia wrote an article re building O gauge wheels which is where the idea came from. He used steel tyres but I wanted brass. My idea was to have one wagon completely made of brass that would left without any paint.
Anyway, I’ve ordered another set of castings that will machine up as those in the picture.

Jon

 

[Jon Nazareth]

This is the very first thing that I ever built in G3 and, coincidentally, is almost the same width as the two wagons I’m now building.

Jon

 

[Jon Nazareth]

Both floors in and scribbed for planking. No curling nor bending of the floor took place and I’m pleased with the effect. Please forgive the quality of the picture as I found it difficult to photograph shinny brass. Time now to move onto the under frames.


Jon

 

[Jon Nazareth]

The first of the underframes almost finished. I’m working on the single brake at the moment and here the brake trunnion can be seen fixed in place. It all is very much make it up as I go along.

Jon

 

[Bigjohn]

Thinking a little about the shape of the corners on the original drawings. This seems to be similar to making a GWR iron mink type vehicle. A block of hardwood the height and width as per drawing, length to the first vertical rivet strip.curve the corners to drawing dimensions. Then attack the downward corner arc (drum sander) , finish the end to the required shape. Screw the finished former to another scrap block. Cut the material to a rectangle that will wrap around the end/side length. Clamp the material to the end, bend material to create bend,, clamp block former shape. Cross clamp to secure the end shaped material. Run a piercing saw round the top of the former. Clean up as required. Make another jig to assemble two ends plus sides to whatever floor you desire

Knowing a friend with router, band saw, belt sander and table saw would make the task easier.

Brass may create “spring back” may be a need to re roll on a smaller dia. bar to achieve 90 degrees
Styrene could be bent with paint stripper gun.
My choice would be Ali. Holds its shape. Easy to guillotine or FET saw. Makes nice rivet detail with my rivet tools.
Personal choice may dictate material selection..

Just my thoughts on how I would attempt the build. HTH…..John

 

[Jon Nazareth]

John
I’m sure that if I had given it more thought, I most probably think of a solution. I’ll keep your ideas in mind.

Jon

 

[Jon Nazareth]

I was drawn away from sorting out the brake on the first wagon by the underframe of the second. My idea was to have made the second wagon entirely, apart from the wheels, of nonferrous metals. The reasoning was that it wasn’t going to painted but left as bare metal as a display piece. I started to cut out the axlebox guides from a sheet of nickel, as I didn’t have any brass, with a jewellers saw. This proved to be too much of a labour of love and so I abandoned that idea and resorted to some made of steel that I had in the spares box. If anyone knows of a way to stop steel from rusting without resorting to paint, please let me know.
All of the fixings on the brass underframe are at the moment held with 14BA screws drilled and tapped into the cross members. I did lose concentration at point resulting in a broken tap in one of the drag beams making it necessary for me to make another. I’m not too sure how I’m going to fix the bodies onto the under frames at the moment. Soldering re the brass one would, I think, distort the body due to the underframe acting as a heat sink which in turn would mean more heat would be needed to get the solder to flow. Epoxy seems to be the only other alternative but I’ll keep thinking.

Jon

 

[NickB]

Jon,

You say that it will be a display model, so if you can keep it in a warm, dry place rust isn't likely to form anyway. If I can indulge in some chemistry for a moment, rust forms in the presence of oxygen (i.e. air) and water (liquid or vapour) together, and the reaction is enhanced by any acid present. So get rid of every trace of flux, clean thoroughly and dry, and if you keep it in a display case, so much the better.

If not there are probably clear laquers available, but I'll have to leave that to others with experience of them.

Nick

 

[simond]

Or metal blue/black with oil.

 

[Mike W]

Jenolite. i.e. phosphoric acid. 50 years ago there was an LMS Class 5 displayed on the National 2.5in Gauge Association's stand at ME exhibitions and the whole thing was plain steel, Jenolited. It has a pleasant steel-ish grey colour too.
Mike

 

[Jon Nazareth]

Nick, Simon and Mike
Thank you for your suggestions.
I have gun blue and Jenolite so, I’ll try them both. I would imagine that both would need ‘something’ over them for added rust protection.

Jon

 

[mswjr]

Clear lacquer gets my vote, The late cherry hill, who was a very talented model engineer lacquered all her model bare metal parts before displaying them.

 

[Jon Nazareth]

This is more or less ‘it’ for this version. The axlebox guides and the brake lever have been treated with Jenolite but more for what they would look like treated in this way than for curing rust. There wasn’t any rust on these items and they will eventually be painted. There are also quite a few 14BA nuts and bolts to be fitted as yet.
The axles look overly large in diameter but I’m putting that down to a trick of the eye, being made from brass, as they are the normal 1/4” diameter.

It does look quite chunky .

Jon

 

[Jon Nazareth]

I just need to fit a little chain and pin to the brake rack to finish this one off. I made up some bands to go around the ends of the dumb buffers but they weren’t successful. They were surprisingly easy to make out of nickel and fitted very well. At first, I tried to solder them on but even with my torch I couldn’t get the solder to flow as the frame was one big heat sink. I then tried superglue but it wasn’t very super and the bands fell off with the mildest of a push with a finger nail. Heigh ho, it is a freelance after all.
I took advantage of those few days of warm sunshine and spray painted in the garden, the axlebox guides, the springs and the brake lever. The other darker items were treated with gun blue.
I’ve only ever used 1/4” stuff to make axles with but in brass, to me they look bigger than a 1/4”.

Jon

 

[Mike W]

Jon, if the axles bother you, then you could trurn them down to the correct taper. They look normal 1/4in to me.

Mike

 

[Jon Nazareth]

Mike
Well, I know that they are 1/4" but, I just thought that by changing the colour, they looked bigger.
I have been thinking about tapered axles and may give it a try on the next wagon. In fact, now that these two are almost complete, I'm looking for a wagon that looks 'interesting'. I think that the S&D had a strange looking brake van but at the time of looking, I couldn't find any drawings. As Mr. Micawber was won't of saying, 'Something will turn up'.

Jon

 

[Bigjohn]

As an unashamed “heads up” I am trying to dispose of my G3 Empire in the small ads. Close to 90 the curious thing is what to throw away. Found a full set of double frames for GWR River class, GWR Saint part built. Couplings buffers,
Mini draw unit full of micro drills, axle guards in white metal and brass. Nuts bolts in commercial quantities down to 16BA, matching taps and dies. Racks full of metals But does any body want it???????? It seems wicked to send it to land fill. Due to a medical problem I suffer from hand cramping and can’t do postage stuff or lifting…….some photos follow…..

 

[simond]

You will undoubtedly find someone who will offer you clearance, give you some money, and then sell your stuff on at a (possibly huge) profit.

But obviously it doesn’t want to go to the tip.

is there not a local club (model railway or model engineering) whose members might assist in packing and shipping for a percentage to club funds?

if you tell us where you are, there may be WTers who can help?

 

[Jon Nazareth]

BigJohn
I saw your advert re the 16ba nuts. I could take a few hundred to put in stock but no more than that I’m afraid.

Jon

 

[Jon Nazareth]

Jon, if the axles bother you, then you could trurn them down to the correct taper. They look normal 1/4in to me.

Mike

Mike,
I’m going to have a go at making some tapered axles. Do you happen to know what angle to set the top slide over at in order to turn the taper?

Jon

P.s. Or, come to think of it, anyone else?