Finescale - of a sort?!

Overseer

Western Thunderer
After wrestling with the cogs in my brain, including mentally trying everything other than standing on my head, reversing the polarity would certainly seem to be the easiest option!

Knowing so little about electronics, I am deeply worried about the possibility of frying the speed control board - that has a lot of stuff attached to it that is potentially sensitive to current direction? After a bit of reading up on the subject of potentiometers, every site so far indicate quite clearly which terminals should be input and output. None however see fit to reveal what could happen in the event of error - let alone any deliberate act?!!

I would much appreciate any advice - especially as the only viable alternative would be the tiresome job of cutting another small gear wheel (as an idler) in order to return the direction of the control ?!

Pete.
I am not an expert but I have used potentiometers wired 'backwards' in the past to have anti clockwise on. It shouldn't make any difference, the resistance is just the distance along the length from the input to the slider.

Another thought, could you just turn the unit over and have the control lever connected to the bottom in the photos instead of the top? Not sure how it is being mounted so may not fit in the other way around. Also curious, you seem to have fixed your gear to a knob, couldn't you have taken the knob off and mounted the gear on the shaft? Would make the gearbox thinner.

The gear and quadrant do look impressive, pity to hide them away.:)
 

Pencarrow

Western Thunderer
Morning Pete, is there an option of running the regulator lever against something frictional? A rubbing strip that requires some force to move the lever and then prevents the lever falling to the full on position?
 

class27

Active Member
Pete I think you have to Mirror the mechanism to reverse it, putting the gear drive on the other side, I don't know if you have space to actually do that, but it would mean not having to make more gears, which are absolutely fantastic by the way. This thread is one of the best bits of the internet right now....
 

Neil

Western Thunderer
Possibly the simplest action would be to connect the drive to the other side (grey rather than transparent) of the gearbox. The action will then be mirrored.
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Morning Pete, is there an option of running the regulator lever against something frictional? A rubbing strip that requires some force to move the lever and then prevents the lever falling to the full on position?
I suspect the lever is free running as a fail safe device, if said infant falls or lets go of said lever, then it'll drop to zero and the motion stopped, the alternative would be spring loading to force the lever back to zero.
 

Peter Insole

Western Thunderer
Thank you everyone so much for your most welcomed replies. Having read them, and looked again at the websites, I now understand how the potentiometers work, so I feel enough confidence to happily grab the soldering iron and swap those wires round!

Indeed Overseer, you have more or less answered your own questions! Turning things around is a matter of extreme clearance issues: The main drive (or input) point will be a shaft from the regulator handle, and is located close up under inside of the boiler barrel, while the box itself will be screwed to one of the non prototypical, but essential bulkheads where there is only a small gap available to insert the "pot" of the potentiometer. It was that gap that determined the scale of the entire mechanism.
Reducing the depth of the gearbox might allow the pot to be brought round to the front without fouling on the firebox; but the additional work and awkwardness involved was deemed unacceptable!
Visual and physical access for maintenance or repairs to the installed unit will be very limited - and was the main reason or choosing a clear acetate cover plate. I felt that any build up of dust, fluff or the incursion of other foreign objects that might end up jamming the gears could be more easily spotted from the narrow viewpoint. Turning the pot round to the front risked hiding that vital interface!
I know that the small brass sprocket is an absolute monster by comparison with anything routinely fitted to "regular" 2. 4 and 7mm models, but I am now afraid to admit that my increasingly "shaky hand" affliction is really starting to have a significant impact on what I do, and can realistically achieve. I had considered various ideas for fixing the gear to the relatively delicate, splined aluminium shaft for the knob, but rejected all in favour of the simple, ugly, but least fiddly approach !!

By the way Chris, I was slightly afraid of suffering a "limp handle effect" as well!
Worry ye not my friend, as it turns out that while the home made gears are (remarkably under the circumstances) free running, there is, quite by chance, enough natural resistance in the system! That could be due to friction elsewhere, or just the reduction in ratio only ?!
I had even been concerned that adding an extra (direction correcting) gear wheel might have been enough to tip that fine balance the wrong way - and end up with something too stiff !!

You raise a good and worthy point Mickoo! There is no failsafe, nor "Deadman" mechanism here!

I fear that a dear friend of mine may be joined by several more giving the buffers a good old smacking then?!

Anyway, thanks again folks!

Pete.
 

Peter Insole

Western Thunderer
Woah man, that's real groovy! Thanks Col.

There is one thing I noticed on that clip though; all those amazing gear designs had one common factor; they were dangling in blanc, white space! Unfortunately, my own simple version has to operate in an awkward environment, with various (some unforeseen) elements effecting the operation. I was to discover that later, and there were almost tears before bedtime!

Before all that, and with the aforementioned confidence that only the wiring needed reversing, I set to finishing off the work on the gearbox.

First up was the task of replacing the temporary nut and bolt on the lever arm with a proper pivot pin...

hSAM_yx6688.JPG

I also decided to make three equal spacers to fit between the plates in place of the nuts on bolt construction.

Using the same method adopted for the boiler tube ends, and by cutting each slightly over length, then popping over a carefully squared dowel, and filing down flush ensured that they all ended up exactly the same length...

hSAM_yx6681.JPGhSAM_yx6685.JPG

With the box practically finished, and still running sweetly on the bench after a wee bit of fettling, the fun of setting it up in position on the bulkhead commenced.

Oh boy, oh boy! It seemed like a good idea the time?

I know I said that clearances were tight, and on paper that was fairly self evident, but I hadn't fully grasped how impossibly so! I really should have known better and considered any potential pitfalls a long, long time ago - at least much earlier in the boiler barrel construction anyway. As a result of that error, I found myself somewhat stuck in a hole - and one turning out to be rather smaller and darker than I had previously imagined!

There is no opportunity to adjust the large regulator stuffing box attached to the boiler backhead, and the journal in same is quite deep - thus ensuring that there is no slack, and that the regulator handle describes a perfectly parallel arc, In order to clear the firebox, the operating rod needs to be quite long, so the alignment of the arm and pivot in the gearbox on the internal bulkhead has to be very precise indeed. With the notion of keeping everything simple, the top two spacer screws were intended to be long enough to pass through and fit the box to that distant bulkhead. That shouldn't itself have presented much of a problem?
The first problem was that in order to find that critical alignment and to mark the centres for the screw pilot holes, the backhead needed to remain firmly in place on the boiler. With the firebox removed, I could still easily get my hand - and hold a small tool in the vacant space - but I can't see what I'm doing in there at the same time!
After an awful lot of blindly fumbling around, I thought I had got the marks where they were needed to be. There was absolutely no way to get a drill in there, so the backhead - plus all the plumbing - had to be taken down and removed. I then discovered that the holes would be too close to the barrel roof and rib structures for sufficient clearance of any drill chucks available!
After much rigging and jigging about, I finally got the holes drilled, the gearbox screwed firmly in and the backhead back on...

Missed!

Only by a little - but it might just as well have been by a mile! Not even a chance of slightly adjusting one odd hole to make it fit! There was nothing I could do but dismantle everything, plug the holes with glued in dowels, wait awhile for them to set, and go through the rigmarole of marking, drilling and reassembly all over again?!

I had to do that two more times!

hSAM_yx6690.JPG

It's ruddy well in there now...

Gosh, what a mess though, for lurking behind that neat looking gearbox and circuit board on the other side, the poor old bulkhead looks as if it had been used as a target for gunnery practice?!

I suppose that if I am honest, my decision to do battle with a steely determination, rather than just sitting down and quietly rethinking the backplate design was the second problem? The latter course might have been less wounding, and saved a few tattered nerves at the end of the day?!

Pete.
 

Peter Insole

Western Thunderer
There was one last task to do yesterday, and that was to make the threaded outer end fitting for the regulator shaft. As a small part of it, plus the bolt end would show on the outside, I decided to use some steel. An old coach bolt of roughly the right diameter (once again) sufficed!!

Quite the usual fight with needle files ensued, especially when trying to get a longish, squared hole in the regulator lever to snugly match the fitting. If I had thought that was a struggle, it turned out to be nothing by comparison with what was to follow?!

hSAM_yx6693.JPGhSAM_yx6695.JPG

It went in, and tightened up nicely in the end!

Of course I did manage, as ever, to make life even more difficult for myself by cutting the fitting off the stock before whizzing the end round in the drill press - leaving me with no alternative to shaping the stub purely by eye!

Nevertheless, whilst it was not a particularly pretty looking job, no matter, as it did provide a firm fit in the brass tube shaft - which is after all, what is was supposed to do?!

hSAM_yx6696.JPG

Having established that I would be working in what might be thought of as an about face fashion, from the gearbox hidden on the inside to the regulator lever on the outside, I found that marking the exact angle before drilling and riveting the shaft, precisely in relation to the the gears, would be quite impossible with the joint located absolutely flush with the face of the stuffing box?!

Nah, no problem methinks? All that was needed was to lock the shaft with its split pin and hold it in the fully open or closed position, apply a dob of superglue on the lug and while taking great care to correctly align the lever, press it home. I would then be able to remove the split pin again and withdraw the lever and shaft for permanent fixing?

I took so much care making absolutely sure than not the slightest drop of cyano went anywhere near the stuffing box, and amazingly succeeded - the shaft was indeed still rotating perfectly freely. Trouble was, I had completely forgotten to note which position the damned gears were in...!!!

That tube would have to come off again.

It was only a wee drop of superglue...

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Much.... much.... later....

Too late, and far too much blast damage all around for photos... They had to wait for the dust to settle in the calm of the morning...

hSAM_yx6698.JPGhSAM_yx6699.JPG

In declaring victory, you would think that I might have been tempted to grab a bottle of bubbly, put on a silly hat, roll my trouser legs up over my knees, wave a flag, kiss all the girls and dance up and down the street?

Apart from the fact that a couple of those things are actually normal behaviour for me.... (I won't admit which!) I'm not so sure what I'm feeling now...?

"Shell shock" probably ?!

Pete.
 

Tom Insole

Western Thunderer
I for one am really really really looking forward to my next sunny day visit to get it down the garden and have a go on that!
marvellous job and should give it a real driving experience now. I've also taken the time to re-do the correct size one of what I made the other day so I'll ensure I have that with me on my next visit so we can see how far off my measurements are this time. ;)

I will also behave myself and not reveal the answers to the last piece as I know exactly which are and are not correct methods of an Insole celebratory lap.....

Tom.
 

michael mott

Western Thunderer
Wonderful work, you do make all that filing look easy and i know it is far from it, super job. Perhaps you need to have a long meeting with the boiler inspector and share the bubbly with him before showing him the boiler.

Michael
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Peter,

I don't know how you got the tube off in the end, but if you heat/warm the joint, a blow torch or gas hob flame, then the Cyno joint should soften and the two pieces pull apart.

Failing that, soak the joint in nail polisher remover, or acetone, that'll break down the glue.
 

Peter Insole

Western Thunderer
Ah hah! Thanks to all for your wonderful replies! Thanks Tom - and I'll keep your secrets Brian if you keep mine! Indeed Tony and Michael! I fear that getting round the boiler inspector could get a bit expensive?!

That reminds me of a tale:

Very many moons ago, as a fresh faced newlywed, I made the foolish error of applying for one of those "endowment" mortgages to buy our nuptial home.
The lender informed me that I had to have a full medical examination, and arranged the date and location. I did think that was a bit invasive, and was mildly hostile to the idea. Nonetheless, I dutifully turned up at the surgery, only to gleefully discover that the doctor that had been appointed to the unpleasant task of closely inspecting some of the more intimate parts of my anatomy was none other than one of our long retired, local practitioners. The amusing point was that he was well known in the district as an old soak! Despite the fact that it was only mid morning, he was quite clearly half cut! I wickedly decided I could have a bit of fun with this chap!

Now I should explain that when I was an even more juvenile, and an ever hopeful young artist, that the task of drawing very light, fine and accurate straight lines was naturally difficult, on account of my own heartbeat. I found a little trick that helped: By holding my wrist to feel my pulse, I repeatedly practiced relaxing my muscles and carefully adjusting my breathing rate. After a quite a while, I discovered that I could actually, and consistently, succeed in briefly stopping my heart!

Back to the slightly sozzled retiree in the surgery: I must admit that despite his condition, he was a gentle and quietly spoken man - with an utterly professional bedside manner, although the order with which he conducted the examination was a little puzzling. After checking what seemed like everything, including the dreaded "cough" routine, he finally decided to check my pulse...

"At last!" I thought, "Here goes...!"

I just imagined myself drawing a very long line.

The doctor appeared to become somewhat perplexed, apologised to me and repeated the test several times, simultaneously using his stethoscope too. Stooping over me as I was prostrate on the couch, he shook his head and mumbled for a bit until suddenly he jumped up and loudly exclaimed;

"Good God young man!"... "You seem to be dead!!"

Goodness knows what he wrote on his report? The lenders queried it, and asked for a second opinion, but clearly decided that their urge to sell me a policy had greater precedence, so I got the money, and heard no more about it!

By the way Mick, as I don't do my nails very often - and neither does my beautiful, just as she is, wife - the make-up box was bare.
Boiling water had the desired effect of softening the cyano into a rubbery goo, but the fit on the tube was a tad too good, so I had terrible trouble with some form of suction! I would prize the pipe partly off, but every time I had to change my grip, I watched the damned gap close back up again?!!

Pete.
 

Peter Insole

Western Thunderer
Col, that "last resort" - sometimes referred to as a "1 number, tool, fine adjustment, for the use of" has come jolly close to being a preferred option in what is now turning out to be yet another sorry saga?!

I suppose the very notion of cutting gears by hand was probably bound to fail if the truth be known, and it should come as no surprise that it has indeed proved problematic, although not for any of the expected reasons !!

A great puzzle that has been vexing me is an extremely odd tendency of the gears to run sweetly on the bench, then completely jamb up after only a few test operations?! I could guess, but not prove that the gearbox was becoming twisted when attached (deep inside the boiler) to the bulkhead? Each time it happened, everything had to be dismantled for further investigation. Trimming various "suspect" teeth seemed to sort the issue, but each time only temporarily.

I felt that one possible answer was to fit an extra, fourth spacer in the small remaining corner of the box immediately adjacent to the potentiometer:

hSAM_yx6702.JPG

There was not really quite enough room for the bolt and collar, but after shaving a thin layer off the plastic knob there was an even line of daylight showing when it was all reassembled.

Worked fine on the bench again... but not for long...

Then a thought occurred:

All the teeth are profiled with a taper, so it is the basic law of physics that determines that when one set on the large lever pushes another on the small wheel the energy generated wants to travel in a line of least resistance - rather than turning at right angles to rotate the wheel !!
Also, being an old, once upon a time, serious cyclist, and therefore quite familiar with chain sprockets, should have known all along about the dynamics of engaging a small gear on the hub to a large bottom bracket - and having to stand on the pedals when forgetting to "shift" !!
Making the frame more rigid might divert some of the energy from trying to push the potentiometer outwards into the business of turning the wheel?

Some hope! That silly plastic knob must be the culprit then?

After the umpteenth dismantling, a hole was drilled in the box cover and another in the centre of the small wheel, then a tapered brass pin was pressed firmly in the gear to make a free running axle, thus ensuring that the distance between the axis remained constant.

hSAM_yx6704.JPGhSAM_yx6705.JPG

All set and powered up again, the new mods still looked reasonably pretty, and worked fine...

BANG !!

The energy couldn't go where it used to, so went somewhere else instead: It found the weakest link - in this case the aluminium shaft and bearing surface inside the potentiometer itself!

Lets face it, a little potentiometer like the one used here is usually only required to control volume and such like, by being twiddled (with even pressure) twixt someone's thumb and forefinger - and definitely NOT by a hard and unyielding set of metal cogs!

Replacing the potentiometer simply won't cure the fundamental design problem.

In utter desperation, and in order to avoid any temptation to apply that heavy hammer, I put the engine and stuff away on the shelf and slumped in front of the telly.
While watching (if that's the right word?) some completely meaningless nonsense, endlessly re-cycled plot, sci-fi film that was little more than a whole load of pretty, flashing lights, an idea suddenly sprang into my mind:

I am terribly sorry if I disappoint anybody, but it has absolutely nothing to do with zapping aliens!

It is nonetheless a cunning plan!!....

Pete.
 
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