HO Eureka Heights (SP) Houston

[Yorkshire Dave]

I wouldn't worry about tight radii ....... check out from 4.00 - and the excellent driving by the loco engineers.

 

[Focalplane]

Thanks, Dave!

I saw Challenger push an entire train backwards on a wye at Bay City, TX. Not quite so tight of course but they took it nice and slow. The one time I didn’t have a camera as I was managing the coffee bar on the City of San Francisco at the other end of the train!

 

[Focalplane]

Where possible I have been checking on recommended minimum radii for the stock I have.

So far, from Broadway Limited's web site:

SP AC-4/5 (articulated cab forward) - 22" plus
Daylight coach (with full width corridor connections) - 22"

Others which I don't own usually specify 15", including their UP Big Boy! No details for the out of production GS-4 (4-8-4)

Next, Athearn Genesis

SP MT-4 4-8-2 - 22"

All my others are well out of production (from the 1980s) so no data on line.

22 inches is 560mm so a 180º curve would be 1200mm across for the inner track, a bit more for the outer radius. It might be an idea to expand the two end baseboards with a custom size of 1300mm long by 600mm wide (instead of 1200mm x 400mm) but other combinations could work.

BUT

John's recommendation of 30", or 762mm would require an end board (possibly two bolted together) of 1800 x 600 (2 x 900 x 600) with part of the curves beginning on scenic/storage boards. The footprint would then be 4,800mm x 1800mm. And there would be two existing boards not used.


Plenty of room for operating inside the layout would be an advantage. Also, the two spare boards could be modular inserts should I ever have the space. It does seem a large area for what is a smallish layout but as LarryG has shown with Llanfair Road, sometimes less really can be more, and more realistic too.

 

[allegheny1600]

Hi Paul,
Sorry to throw a spanner in your works! At a previous house I was busy building a layout around the walls of the 20’ x 10’ garage and used what I thought was a generous 24” radius on my corners. I was therefore quite surprised when my SD60 complained about such curves and if I was hauling my Autorack cars - running was very unreliable.
This was before I adopted soldered and staggered joints on curves but I laid them with the aid of a Track Setta so they should have been quite smooth throughout the curve!
I follow one particular guy with a smashing layout on MRH and he uses quite sharp curves (maybe 20”?) but only with short cars and the likes of GP9’s, RS3’s etc
What I found was that as both wheelbase and bogie wheelbase (I.e. six axles!) increase, the “throw” of the end of each vehicle, increases massively. Acceptable if you could run say a PA, 40’ box, 89’ passenger, 40’, passenge, 40’, passenger etc etc - but wholly unrealistic!
Therefore, I hold with the recommendation of aiming for 30” minimum radius - if at all possible.
Easements (transitions) into the curves would also be helpful - so I’ve read! I haven’t actually built such things myself yet.
Cheers,
John

 

[Focalplane]

John

No spanner in the works at all! The whole point of this exercise is not to have regrets. I have already got two Tracksettas (I know one is 36") and will get others if needed. The transition into the curve is indeed an option on the scenic side of the layout. And no reverse curves along the main line.

As a Mac user I am trying to get AnyRail working on Crossover. It has worked before but I am doing something wrong, despite upgrades to both. This would be really useful to map out the Peco track, maintaining a minimum 30" radius. But frustration sets in after a while and Moor Street beckons! I used to be quite good with computers. . . . .

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

Does the available space allow you to drop the spare boards in like this and have four new boards slighly larger?

It could increase the radii to 1m and using transitional curves to tighten the curve at the apex only (it also allows the the space to be filled with more open scenery and/or a tighter radius industrial spur .


As for less is more I agree and Pelle Søeborg with his UP Daneburg Subdivision layout is a master of this. You may have already seen it and has a minimum radius of 838mm (33''). A copy of the track plan is here HO scale Union Pacific Daneburg Subdivison | ModelRailroader.com

 

[Focalplane]

Dave de Yorkshire

Yes, maybe it could fit. Overall length is more of a problem. As for Pelle Søeburg’s modelling, second to none. I have a couple of his books on modelling techniques.

I think I can cope with around 800mm minimum radius and put the extra two boards plus one more giving double width to the scenic area. The key will be careful track laying on the 180° ends.

Thanks, Paul

 

[Focalplane]

Redrawn best effort (so far, using 800mm min radius)



The thicker scenic boards will allow better sidings access to wider warehouses, as in the prototype. The pickup freight will provide the most operational interest so this will improve that aspect of the layout.

 

[Focalplane]

While in France I try not to divert my attention away from Moor Street and 7mm scale coaches, but the inevitable happens, particularly as I wrenched a muscle in my back yesterday morning while at the supermarket. So I have been going back through various periods while living in Houston, photographing parts of the city that would soon disappear under the guise of redevelopment. One project I had was to photograph old store signs in the inner city neighborhoods. and these may come in useful. I don't think a whole thread on WT makes much sense but I do have a Flickr account and have put all these photos in a separate album and made them available to anyone.

Old Houston Store Signs

A collection of fast disappearing signs dating mostly from the 1940s and 1950s

www.flickr.com

These images have been private for years. At one time I switched off public viewing and kept Flickr as a personal back up. Public viewing and commenting is now back on. Sad to see some 15 year old comments that suggest many of the signs have indeed disappeared.

If I find more I will add them.

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

Facsinating signs - it's like a time warp. Unfortunately (as happens everywhere) a lot disappear as a result of urban redevelopment.

It's interesting how the ravages of time and the weather have exposed the signs paintwork revealing they have been just painted over by the new owners - which provides a clue as to the previous owner and building use.

I also notice some of the signs appear attached to a few classic 'Hollywood Art Deco' buildings in your photos. Did you happen to photograph these as well?

 

[Focalplane]

Hi Dave

I wish I had taken more photos of the buildings. I do have some but they need collecting together into an album. Something to do while incapacitated!

I have been doing more research on the Eureka area using the 1944 air photo data on Google Earth. What a shame there is no street view facility for 1944!

Also, the origin of Eureka has been explained. There was a large cotton mill in the area named Eureka Mill. The mill was close to the junction and Tower 13; there was even a station in the area in the nineteenth century named Eureka.

 

[Focalplane]

A few buildings added to a new Flickr album, from old barns to county halls. I really wish I had taken more photos but film was expensive!

Texas Buildings

A collection of photos of older buildings around Texas designed to help railroad modellers depict times past

www.flickr.com

 

[Focalplane]

All you need to know about Eureka Tower 13 and then some!

Texas Railroad History - Towers 13 and 14 - Houston (Eureka and Chaney Jct.)

One new item for me is the scalloped tiles being an SP "signature".

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

It's amazing at times what is revealed during rebuilding/improvement works.

An area worth modelling - especially the period from the 1940s to the 1970s - complete with the forests of utility poles (with wires of course .

 

[Focalplane]

I have read the full history in the link several times and each time pick up something new. I know this area quite well before they started the new road widening under the bridges as shown on Street View, so was pleased to see the old SP signs on the bridges. It's a bit like seeing GWR cast iron signs still advising of penalties for crossing the line in 2022.

As to utility poles, that's a whole Houston story! Well, not just Houston, just look what has happened with Hurricane Ian. 40,000 line men and trucks at work in Florida alone. The eye of Hurricane Alicia went over our house in 1983 (August 19th to be precise and I didn't need to look that up!) An uncanny experience during the calm knowing that a second half of the storm would begin soon enough with the wind blowing in the opposite direction. We lost three mature loblolly pines that day on a third of an acre, one destroying the garage. And no electricity for 10 days during which time the mosquitos took advantage of all the standing water. Something they don't mention on the news. OK, back to modelling.

 

[Focalplane]

ALL my HO modelling stock etc. is now under one roof waiting for winter to get me in the mood.

Even the Rivarossi Big Boy and Challenger are tucked away safely in their red boxes. I worry about testing them after some of the other experiences with stored locos but I am sure curiosity will win one cold Sunday afternoon.

A quick look at the Roundhouse Vanderbilt tender says it will look fine with the IHC Pacific. And the Roundhouse Consolidation kit is just crying out for attention. But I will avoid that and focus on repairing what needs to be repaired first.

However none of this will begin until November.

Another load of stuff brought from France includes HO street lighting models as well as Bachmann HO figures.

 

[Focalplane]

This morning I did a quick mock up of the double width scenic board track spacing. Two 1200mm x 400mm boards with track on the outside, plenty of room for scenery on the inside. The camera view is from the perspective of a visitor.
The tracks are laid out to represent from front to back

1. Storage loop with caboose

2. and 3. Double track main lines, with Cotton Belt box car and green baggage car

4. Switching loop, no rolling stock

5. Two spurs serving warehouses, SP box cars



Curve radii still need to be resolved but an interesting factoid came up that the SP minimum radius on wyes has a scale radius of 30”.

Useful SP site here. It is California centric.

 

[Focalplane]

More research on future needs, this time signalling. What is far from clear is when Houston's main SP line switched over from semaphore to searchlight signals. I feel confident that the Eureka Heights area went searchlight very early on after WWII but need to confirm this with photos from the several books I have.

If semaphore signals still existed then here is an excellent reference:

https://railroadsignals.cus/signals/sem/index.htm

However, if searchlights were already installed, here is a kit that is based on the prototype:

Kit #100 SP Single Head Searchlight Multi-Kit Signal

The Southern Pacific Railroad (SP) installed Union Switch & Signal (US&S) "H-2" and the earlier model "H" searchlight signals as replacements for their original US&S Style "B" semaphore signals. The searchlight signals had better visibility in both daytime and nighttime applications. The SP...

spdaylight.com

This site has some interesting other items but just how many might be available needs to be followed up.

 

[Focalplane]

I am beginning to have second thoughts! Basically I am concerned about depicting the prototype SP double main line west of Houston. Going single track would simplify things and allow one set of hidden loop sidings to the rear. There will still be room for a long relief loop to store a train on the scenic section while another train passes (in either direction) and there would be greater operational and scenic emphasis on the pickup loop and sidings. The layout name need not change, in fact I rather like it!

The downside would be no visible passing of, say, the eastbound Sunset Limited and the northbound Sunbeam. But the timetables almost certainly would not have allowed this to be prototypical anyway.

 

[Focalplane]

I posted this link on another thread and it really should be added to this one.

This is a huge layout with a very heavy application of computers in its day to day running. I expect some WT members might find the scenery a bit "fresh" but at the end of the video it is said the next step will be to weather the entire layout, toning it down to a more real portrayal.

Most SP layouts are based on the West Coast, very few cover Texas and Louisiana, so Eureka Heights has an opportunity to be different. I can still apply Rule 1 if I want to run Cab Forwards and Northerns (only the GS-1 class worked West Texas and would have rarely visited Houston).