timbowales
Western Thunderer
Nigel, does that bogie pivot both horizontally and vertically?
Do you insulate the inside of the sideframes to avoid shorts?
Do you insulate the inside of the sideframes to avoid shorts?
Elmham Market in EM
- Thread starter James Spooner
- Start date
James Spooner
Western Thunderer
Hi Tim,
Yes, it does pivot both horizontally and vertically and I will apply some kapton tape to avoid shorts.
Nigel
simond
Western Thunderer
Pondering said bogie. It’s a better way of entertaining myself over breakfast than reading the ever more depressing news.
I can see that it can allow some equalisation, assuming it can roll (around the longitudinal axis) as well as pitch (transverse axis), but my pondering suggests that it’s yaw (vertical axis) is of limited benefit, as it only shortens the fixed wheelbase by roughly one quarter. The limiting angle between the vehicle axis and the track centreline at the rear (fixed) axle is directly related to that fixed wheelbase chord and the curve radius, and for that to matter, the radius would have to be rather tight, I guess.
or am I missing something?
I can see that it can allow some equalisation, assuming it can roll (around the longitudinal axis) as well as pitch (transverse axis), but my pondering suggests that it’s yaw (vertical axis) is of limited benefit, as it only shortens the fixed wheelbase by roughly one quarter. The limiting angle between the vehicle axis and the track centreline at the rear (fixed) axle is directly related to that fixed wheelbase chord and the curve radius, and for that to matter, the radius would have to be rather tight, I guess.
or am I missing something?
James Spooner
Western Thunderer
Hi Simon,
In creating the bogie I was trying to avoid the problem I had in other old whitemetal kits of yore where a six wheeled tender tends to pivot vertically on the central axle whenever there are track imperfections. The bogie, which is held loosely around a central pivot, will hopefully prevent that. I could have gone for some sort of springing system on the middle axle but I was trying to build in the possibility of, at some future stage, adopting Mike Sharman’s flexichas system where, to provide more weight on the loco driving wheels, the tender is weighted (and this one, being whitemetal is pretty heavy!) and its front hangs onto the rear loco drawbar, with the bogie merely coming along for the ride. At the moment, the 8BA bolt holding the bogie in place also has a few washers holding the bogie at the right height. I can easily remove a washer or two to In order to achieve the flexichas outcome. I hope that helps my thinking a bit (and you may well be able to spot any flaws in it!!).
cheers
Nigel
simond
Western Thunderer
Hi Nigel,
Now I understand!
Using the tender to weight the loco seems to be a white metal kit thing, it was how my Springside Hall was designed.
In the end I didn’t bother as I equalised the loco and it’s heavy enough without the tender.
It does throw in another question, though. Will you use the bogie to guide the tender, and thus have a sliding pivot on the loco, or just have it along for the ride, by pivoting the tender on the loco?
It was the sliding pivot that put me off the idea on the Hall.
On generous radii I guess the pivoted tender would be fine, but the tender bogie will need side play - and I’m not sure how much. A “standard” crossover becomes your test I guess.
Watching with interest!
Atb
Simon
Now I understand!
Using the tender to weight the loco seems to be a white metal kit thing, it was how my Springside Hall was designed.
In the end I didn’t bother as I equalised the loco and it’s heavy enough without the tender.
It does throw in another question, though. Will you use the bogie to guide the tender, and thus have a sliding pivot on the loco, or just have it along for the ride, by pivoting the tender on the loco?
It was the sliding pivot that put me off the idea on the Hall.
On generous radii I guess the pivoted tender would be fine, but the tender bogie will need side play - and I’m not sure how much. A “standard” crossover becomes your test I guess.
Watching with interest!
Atb
Simon
Ian@StEnochs
Western Thunderer
There is a prototype for a front bogie tender. James Manson designed one when he was at the Great North of Scotland Railway and an almost identical version when he moved back to the G&SWR at Kilmarnock. The purpose was to increase water capacity. On the Sou' West it permitted non stop running from Carlisle to Glasgow before the LMS installed water troughs. This is the G&SWR version.
James Spooner
Western Thunderer
A bit more progress on the tender today. I have managed to find another photo of 43089 as well as some good shots of the top backs of other Ivatt 4MT tenders in East Anglia so added detail accordingly.
The kit only seems to have one of two feed water filters so I need to knock another one up, probably from plasticard.
I rang Colin at Alan Gibson today for some sprung LMS buffers (I only keep a stock of GE and LNE buffers) but they will be a couple of weeks as the control card one one of his machines has gone pop and he has another on order.
Some filler has been squeezed into the cracks so hopefully they won’t show after priming and painting. Also, looking at some of the photos, the Millholme diagram for the tablet catcher, when compared to the photos I have been looking at, seems to have the arrangement upside down. I am currently wondering whether I am brave enough to try to unsolder the catchers and risk having a morass of liquid metal or whether I just live with it…
Onwards with the detailing… a photo of progress to date attached.
Nigel
The kit only seems to have one of two feed water filters so I need to knock another one up, probably from plasticard.
I rang Colin at Alan Gibson today for some sprung LMS buffers (I only keep a stock of GE and LNE buffers) but they will be a couple of weeks as the control card one one of his machines has gone pop and he has another on order.
Some filler has been squeezed into the cracks so hopefully they won’t show after priming and painting. Also, looking at some of the photos, the Millholme diagram for the tablet catcher, when compared to the photos I have been looking at, seems to have the arrangement upside down. I am currently wondering whether I am brave enough to try to unsolder the catchers and risk having a morass of liquid metal or whether I just live with it…
Onwards with the detailing… a photo of progress to date attached.
Nigel
James Spooner
Western Thunderer
So when Mrs B got her way and our kitchen was extended I did invest in a Quooker tap. If I’m feeling brave I might try it out on the tablet catcher and see if it shifts…. Thanks for the tip Simon.
cheers
Nigel
James Spooner
Western Thunderer
I have been doing a bit of maintenance on the railway and running trains testing for faults (OK, playing then…). As a scene appeared that appealed to me I grabbed some photos with my phone camera, so apologies if they don’t come out very well on a bigger screen. A few of my efforts are shown below.
Nigel
Nigel
James Spooner
Western Thunderer
Another week away in Wales (this time we were accompanied by a daughter, son in law and grandchildren) meant that modelling again ground to a halt (although I did manage to put together a Parkside 13T steel open wagon). Today I have attacked the Millholme Ivatt again, going through all the details on the tender. Rummaging through the box I discovered four sprung buffers, so decided to use them. I also managed to unsolder the token apparatus and resolder the right way up. I have had to make one of the grease boxes from scratch as there was only one with the kit. This I made from plasticard, using the casting as a former. I also finished the wire handrails. The steps have been tricky; firstly to find all the bits in the rather old fashioned etch (this kit is over forty years old) and then to solder them together and tidy up. Last two steps to make them on to the loco itself… Some photos attached.
Nigel
Nigel
Dave Holt
Western Thunderer
I presume there won't be so many trips to North Wales for a few months, or do you get involved in winter maintenance?
Congratulations on safely rearranging the tablet catchers without turning them into a shapeless blob. By-the-way, the item you had to replicate in plastic card was an external water filter box - nothing to do with grease.
Good luck with the loco. As you say, a kit of its time.
Dave.
Congratulations on safely rearranging the tablet catchers without turning them into a shapeless blob. By-the-way, the item you had to replicate in plastic card was an external water filter box - nothing to do with grease.
Good luck with the loco. As you say, a kit of its time.
Dave.
James Spooner
Western Thunderer
Hi Dave,
No more planned this year (unless I have to go up for some budget meetings). In January I am doing a working weekend clearing lineside brash and attempting to improve the views for the passengers.
You are quite right, it is a water filter box. On the loco I think I am going to make some changes to the chassis. I have some LRM flexichas bearings and am inclined to fix the rear axle and flex the front two driving axles, leaving the pony to float. The instructions for the valve gear are sparse to put it mildly, so I think that is going to be the big challenge.
Nigel
James Spooner
Western Thunderer
Last bits (remaining steps) finished on the tender this evening and I have started looking at the loco mainframes…
Nigel
Nigel
James Spooner
Western Thunderer
Having just returned from a long weekend seeing friends in Birmingham and Alnmouth I have now started assembling all the bits and pieces I need to convert the brass frames provided in the kit to a flexichas chassis. I also needed to separate out the coupling rods and add an extra layer so they would flex with the chassis. The sum total of all that effort in terms of cut metal was one half of one rod cut, extra layer soldered and formed. The second half of the same rod has been soldered to its backing piece, cut out and partially filed down. This isn’t going to be a quick project… A photo attached.
Nigel
Nigel
James Spooner
Western Thunderer
OK, I’ll put my hands up now…. This has nothing to do with Elmham Market, EM or even Welsh narrow gauge. When Hornby announced they were bringing out the LNER Coronation set I was well and truly hooked. I have always loved the style, shape and colouring of those Gresley streamliners and promptly ordered a train from Paul at Alton Models. The email arrived yesterday and I picked them up today (minus the observation saloon as they haven’t arrived in the UK yet). To be completely frank, I’m not going to convert them (or the Hornby Dublo Mallard I also bought) to EM so they will only be brought out when I get running powers on a suitably large 00 layout (and I guess will be shelf queens in between!) but I just love them! Some photos of Mallard and a twin set attached…
Nigel
Nigel
LarryG
Western Thunderer
I did some of Hornby's LMS 'Coronation' stock in BR blood & custard for a friend, so I don't suppose these coaches will ever appear in early BR livery either. Maybe the thinking is, BR's colours lack the wow factor and would not bring in the required return on investment.
Mick LNER
Western Thunderer
Is there any obvious reason, why the Coronation Coaches appear to have very badly fiitting Corridor Ends, the Roof and Side joins are simply awful ??
Again the piece covering the centre gap between the Coaches is flexible/removable and again much lower than the Roof ?.
Again the piece covering the centre gap between the Coaches is flexible/removable and again much lower than the Roof ?.
James Spooner
Western Thunderer
The packs come with magnetic additional ends to replicate the rubber infills so I think the idea is the ends you can see (although I don’t know why it has also been applied to the brake ends) can be removed and replaced by others. I’m just going to get two boxes out and see how it works…
Nigel