Does anything change?

[Allen M]

Hello all
I have been sorting out Model Railway News magazines from 1968 to 71 from my store containing a series of articles on the Colonel Stephens Light railways. With the permission of the writer these have now gone to the Colonel Stephens Society to be made available.
Now my point!
In the March 1971 issue there was an article 'The youngsters versus the hobby' by Eric Anderson.
It was along the lines that if older people do not encourage the young then the hobby could die out.

Regards
Allen

 

[simond]

I suspect it will continue to become less popular, and I would imagine that the lure of steam is less engaging to those born long after its demise.

I think the recent rise in 0 gauge RTR will have an impact (more 0, less kits?). But that is only a mirror of other gauges and scales.

At some point, Chinese manufacture will not be as cheap as it currently appears - that too will have an effect.

So, it will change.

 

[76043]

Thomas is the saviour of the hobby, with Hornby following on behind. So can we try not to bring Hornby down with excess rivet counting please!

You get hooked as a youngster, leave and come back much later in life. It's broadly a hobby for teenagers and the over 40's.

I don't see any issues to give any concern.

Tony

 

[Herb Garden]

Ooooo controversial topic....

May I offer my opinion as a 32 year old?

I suspect it will continue to become less popular, and I would imagine that the lure of steam is less engaging to those born long after its demise

Firstly Simon I'm not sure I agree, or at least in part I don't agree. Amongst the modelers of my generation I see as many diesel modelers as steam modelers. However what is different that unlike the older modelling demographic we like steam engines but aren't necessarily constrained by wanting to model the days of one's youth. When I was growing up it was all sprinters and turbostars. So we end up spreading our interests a bit wider. A number of my friends like myself are modelling pre grouping subjects.

It was along the lines that if older people do not encourage the young then the hobby could die out.

From personal experience, encouragement is one thing but what is really needed in some corners of the hobby is being welcoming. I've had the pleasure and misfortune to be part of a variety of model railway and railway societies over the years as I've moved around the country. Some I am glad to say have been really welcoming and the acquaintances have become friends regardless the of the age or background differences.

However in some places some clubs have been tolerant of my presence but not welcoming. Because I'm younger and therefore different not taking the time to get to know me or try and involve me in things.

And then sadly there are the 'go away we don't want your kind here' group who sadly are openly prejudice against youngsters. One group I was part of as a student had members who were frankly abusive. I didn't stay long....

I appreciate in some cases there is a generational gap and we will have different experiences, different views different ways of expressing ourselves. But that doesn't mean we can't work together, enjoy a wonderful hobby and make friends across the generations.

If model railway groups are known for being places that are fun and whomever you are you will find welcome, respect and friendship. Then I feel this hobby will evolve, change and development as it always has but ultimately survive.

Sorry for the long one .... That's just my view and experiences and I can't speak for everyone. I would be interested to know how others view the topic

Herbie

 

[Herb Garden]

Thomas is the saviour of the hobby, with Hornby following on behind. So can we try not to bring Hornby down with excess rivet counting please!

You get hooked as a youngster, leave and come back much later in life. It's broadly a hobby for teenagers and the over 40's.

I don't see any issues to give any concern.

Tony

Or just get hooked early.... And forget to stop....

 

[oldravendale]

I'm rather surprised at your comment, Simon, as my experience runs counter to that. My club, far from the largest, comprises mainly us old f**rts but a young chap, now about 16 I guess, who's been with us for the last five years and to whom I've taught soldering. He can join in with the insults (usually of me) along with the best - or worst. Then we have a few chaps in their 30s and 40s who we see only occasionally, but that's the nature of work nowadays. The majority are well retired, like me, and for the first time in their lives have time to engage with the hobbies they missed out on when they were working. That's in a club of fewer than 30 in number.

I've found the same sort of demographic in the volunteers at the GCR. And we have quite a number of young ladies working with us. We've struggled for volunteers for as long as I can remember and the situation is no better or worse.

Think about the traction engine and bus fraternity too. Although I'm not in their number look at the age profile of their crews.

My view of the situation has changed over the years from being concerned about the future of our hobby to understanding that it's a situation that can't be forced. As they realise that computers and on line games are not terribly satisfying our younger cohort will migrate to more community based activities.

Brian
.

 

[Eastsidepilot]

You get hooked as a youngster, leave and come back much later in life. It's broadly a hobby for teenagers and the over 40's.



Tony

I think having a parent ( usually your Father) who is a modelmaker, collector or hobbyist of some sort is probably the way most youngsters get into it, not all. It was the way I became interested in model making although railways weren't the initial interest my Father being an aircraft modeller.
For a lot of people the interest fades in your teens ( loose bikes, and fast birds in my case or was it round the other way ) and returns later in life most likely when it's more affordable and the time.
I'm optimistic about the future railway modellers only today I have learnt of a lad in his twenties starting out in S7, which most think of us as old boys with faces like split sofa's etc.

Col.

 

[JohnG]

I suspect it will continue to become less popular, and I would imagine that the lure of steam is less engaging to those born long after its demise.

I think the recent rise in 0 gauge RTR will have an impact (nor 0, less kits?). But that is only a mirror of other gauges and scales.

At some point, Chinese manufacture will not be as cheap as it currently appears - that too will have an effect.

So, it will change.

You make an interesting point Simon, Dapol 4 wheeled 0 gauge coaches will now being made in the UK, in Chirk. Costs in China are rising to the extent that it is cost effective to make items here again, better quantity control as well, the Stroudley coach I viewed at Guildex was superb.

Usual Disclaimer.

John

 

[Jordan or Plymouth Mad]

In the March 1971 issue there was an article 'The youngsters versus the hobby' by Eric Anderson.
It was along the lines that if older people do not encourage the young then the hobby could die out.

The imminent Demise of The Hobby has been regularly predicted since before I was born (1967).
Change? Certainly. Reduce in size? Possibly. Die out altogether? Not a chance!!!

 

[Dog Star]

Change? Certainly. Reduce in size? Possibly. Die out altogether? Not a chance!!!

Did you mean "reduce in size? just change between O-gauge and O-scale"...

 

[Jordan or Plymouth Mad]

Did you mean "reduce in size? just change between O-gauge and O-scale"...

Don't start that again!!!

 

[simond]

I'm rather surprised at your comment, Simon

Which bit, Brian?

I'm guessing (and please correct me) the bit about “getting less popular”. I suspect that some sixty or seventy years ago, every lad went train spotting for a while, and many stuck at it - whilst very few nowadays would do such a thing, and I’d guess that as a percentage of hobby time or hobby expenditure, model railways is much less than it was, say fifty years back. I don’t think it’ll die (I sincerely hope not!) but there is simply so much more on offer, and the hard-won practical skills are perhaps seen less favourably amongst the younger generation than they might have been when I were a lad , whereas being able to complete Assassin’s Creed and Call of Duty…

My dad taught me a bit about modelling, and how to solder, but despite a brief stint as a railwayman, wasn’t a modeller at all. My kids might have learned lots from me but could not be less interested in railways (despite mum being in the business) if they tried.

 

[Eastsidepilot]

This gets close to the debate about whether you are a model maker that has a main interest in railways or someone that has an interest in model railways enjoyed with RTR and ready made accessories such as Hornby etc. as I did as a kid initially.
I enjoy building models of basically anything to be honest be scratch or kit, I'm not too keen on RTR personally although there are a few exceptions.
The youngest in our family at present is 12 years old, he's built the Lego stuff which is about as close to making anything with your hands as he has got, been given Meccano but shows no interest so far, but I think it's all about how your wired from the start, he's not into playing sports of any sort and is more interested in geographical, historical and wildlife subjects. I will say that his Father is not particularly practical, not a criticism, again just the way he's wired but whether or not that has any bearing on it I don't know.

So how many kids out there today enjoy modelmaking of any kind and is that in decline ? or will the decline be seen in youngsters who have an interest only in railways ?

 

[djparkins]

Which bit, Brian?

I'm guessing (and please correct me) the bit about “getting less popular”. I suspect that some sixty or seventy years ago, every lad went train spotting for a while, and many stuck at it - whilst very few nowadays would do such a thing, and I’d guess that as a percentage of hobby time or hobby expenditure, model railways is much less than it was, say fifty years back. I don’t think it’ll die (I sincerely hope not!) but there is simply so much more on offer, and the hard-won practical skills are perhaps seen less favourably amongst the younger generation than they might have been when I were a lad , whereas being able to complete Assassin’s Creed and Call of Duty…

My dad taught me a bit about modelling, and how to solder, but despite a brief stint as a railwayman, wasn’t a modeller at all. My kids might have learned lots from me but could not be less interested in railways (despite mum being in the business) if they tried.

I'm afraid I agree with simond on this one. My two stepsons, who grew up with me from a very early age, and for two decades follwing, only showed a [small degree of] interest in the part of my business that deals with aircraft - and modern ones at that. In their book, fast jets were cool and trains [even modern trains] were boooring.

I'm 70 now, and I went with a slightly older family member to a small model railway show nearby about weeks ago. Apart from two other people [one of whom was distinctly odd!], I think I was one of the youngest people there! It was just so depressing and I don't think we stayed above 45 minutes. Mind you I picked up an out of print Iain Rice book and an Oakwood Press book on the Ashover Light Railway for £12 the two from a secondhand book stall, so I'm not complaining on that front. In fact, I'm not complaining at all, rather reflecting that there is an inevitable sadness to it all. We are off to the Bala Lake show later this month where i think/hope it might be a bit better.

To further underline simond's point, I dont think we could see one kit built loco or piece of stock at that show. I too learned to solder at a very early age as an apprentice wireman/pcb solderer in my uncle's electronics business. It's just second nature.

Against this backdrop, again I agree, that there simply has to be a shrinkage in the hobby of model railways.

But maybe we are talking about two quite distinct hobbies here. The first being building a model railway AND the locos and stock that go on it. The second being building a model railway and populating it with RTR items. The jury may be out on the decline of second example, but I very firmly rest my case with regards to the first! I also agree that Chinese manufacturing costs will rise in the future, or may simply cease to be an option at all [without getting into politics/Taiwan etc.]

David Parkins

Etched Brass Scale Model Kits by David J. Parkins | Railway, Military, Ships, Figures

Etched Brass Scale Model Kits, model railways, model aircraft, figures, military vehicles and ships for the experienced model builder.

davidjparkins.com

 

[oldravendale]

An interesting debate! My son has caught the railway bug from me, although he's veered off to continental railways at the moment. Daughter couldn't have been less interested and then suddenly came up with "Could we go to a railway? I'd like to re-experience the smell and sounds." People I've taken to Pendon from ages very small to 90 have, without exception, been delighted. That hasn't made them railway modellers but they appreciate the skills and some have subsequently visited model railway exhibitions.

Finney7 had a very good weekend at Guildex and our customers' ages were from (guessing) mid - 30s to old and a fair spread such that I'd say the majority of customers were not necessarily in the older quartile. We, of course, have only been running the company for a few years and although there are inevitable peaks and troughs any decline, if there is one, is quite gentle.

However, on one thing we clearly agree. Model railways as a hobby won't die. The number of participants may decrease (and I put that down in part to the lack of practical facilities at schools so that the joy of making stuff is no longer learned as part of the syllabus) but there will continue to be a core who have learned the delights of doing things with their hands.

A very good point about train spotting as well, Simon. I'll happily concede that without that exposure one of the "natural" routes in to railway modelling is much decreased.

At the end of the day I suspect that I'm just a glass half full rather than glass half empty sort of chap.

Brian

 

[Jordan or Plymouth Mad]

I don't think we can take small samples of one or two Shows as an overall marker of how the hobby is going - especially 'depressing' local ones...
At the Stafford Guildex show last Saturday, yes the majority of visitors were older/retired, but my mate is about 21 & I saw some youngsters (maybe early teens) there too. As for layouts & traders, I'd guess the MIOG layout and stand were mostly 30-ish, Ellis Clark & his team around the same, and very enthusiastic, and other operators were certainly say, mid-50s. I joke that O Scale is known as the Senior Scale, but by no means at all was everyone there on the verge of popping their clogs!! - and yes I'm fully aware that's not what 'senior scale' is meant to refer to.
As for enthusiasm for real railways, my wife & I go the Pub at Bridgnorth station quite often, and one weekend evening a few months ago it was the Diesel Gala. My wife commented on how many young lads (as in late-teens to 30-ish) there were. As many of the diesels were withdrawn before a lot of them were even born, I thought this was very interesting - where has their enthusiasm come from?
These again are just two limited examples, which cannot by themselves prove how the hobby is doing, but I see more to be optimistic about than pessimistic.
I have said before that if the hobby was dying out, the Warley Show would now be held in a shed at the back of the Harry Mitchell leisure centre in Smethwick, where they started out, rather than moving to the NEC, circa 1992 I think?

maybe we are talking about two quite distinct hobbies here. The first being building a model railway AND the locos and stock that go on it. The second being building a model railway and populating it with RTR items.

Is there no middle ground at all?? I don't think there is quite such a clear-cut division.
In my own case, yes much of my stuff is R-T-R, but equally much of it I have worked on, detailed & repainted, to make it my 'own'. People could look, for example, at one of my F-Units, and if they're familiar with the old Atlas/Roco F9, think it's just another one of those.
It isn't. It has had several changes made to make it an F7, including re-locating a bodyside porthole window, and more details added - most of which I made myself - to make it a Soo Line F7. But if I was supposed to build the entire thing completely from scratch, it just would never exist, for a number of reasons, time - or the lack of - being just one of them.

 

[RichardG]

I remember visiting Hobby Specialists of Shrewsbury in the mid 1970s and becoming aware of Continental as well as British RTR, kits to build model trains, and parts to help making models from scratch. Sundeala board was stocked for baseboard tops and they had controllers by H&M.

Fifty years on, these five elements are surely still there, in different proportions, in everyone's take on their own model train hobby. The changes are of evolution, from those blown shells of Modern Traction Kits (I never bought one!) to etched kits and 3D printed parts; and from Wrenn (ex HD) models built to last forever to the throw-away, factory-sealed models of today, and so on. Some changes for the better, some not so good; but I think the essence of the hobby (taking this is its most inclusive sense) remains the same - make yourself a working model of a railway.

For me, evolution has let me learn new skills, and without this I suspect I would have become bored and sought a new hobby altogether. The wonderful thing about model railways for me is I can explore almost any craft skill or technology and find an application for it. And with the Internet, I know there are plenty of folk with a similar-but-different set of ideals with whom I can exchange thoughts and progress.

 

[oldravendale]

For me, evolution has let me learn new skills, and without this I suspect I would have become bored and sought a new hobby altogether. The wonderful thing about model railways for me is I can explore almost any craft skill or technology and find an application for it. And with the Internet, I know there are plenty of folk with a similar-but-different set of ideals with whom I can exchange thoughts and progress.

That's an interesting comment, Richard, as when I started visiting the States for work regularly, probably from the mid 80s on, it was very noticeable to me that people this side of the pond regarded model railway enthusiasts as really un-cool and a bit weird whereas in the US there seemed to be a recognition that model railways indicated an interest and probably some knowledge of history, geography, building, electrics/electronics and being creative by the very nature of the model railway process. I further believe that, over the last 20 years or so that sort of realisation has started to flower in the UK and a general interest in the historical aspects of railways seems to have grown with the more recent exploits of Flying Scotsman which was, perhaps, the blue touch paper.

Certainly, when FS occasionally comes through my local station people turn out in numbers and I'll bet the majority are not railway enthusiasts per se.

Brian

 

[chigley]

we've just had the scotsman down here [bluebell]the place was rammed

 

[Jordan or Plymouth Mad]

Of course, there's building everything yourself for your layout, and there's building everything yourself for your layout.....

It's undoubtedly scratchbuilt, but is it therefore 'better' than R-T-R..??
It's certainly cheaper.....