Focalplane
Western Thunderer
Very nice work, Rob!
7mm David Andrews Princess - 6206 Princess Marie Louise
- Thread starter Rob Pulham
- Start date
Rob Pulham
Western Thunderer
Before going any further on the chassis, I decided to assemble the footplate to check that all sits well. This is what for me has been the trickiest bit of the build so far.
The bending and fitting of the two dropped curved ends of the footplate. These are full thickness etch and at0.45mm in Nickel they take a bit of bending.
First, I fitted the valences using a piece of square bass bar and some surgical clamps to hold it in place and vertical to the footplate. Just a case of tack in several places along the length and then seem between them.
Next on to the dropped sections, I started with the rear section for no other reason than the front section needed the rivets pressing out and I had done enough of that for the day when I finished the footplate earlier in the day.
I marked up the start of the bend and another line which should have been the middle of the bend but fell somewhat short. In the event this wasn't an issue as by some miracle I managed to bend it almost perfect first time. It just needed a gentle bash with a rubber mallet to get the last bit of the curve where it meets the footplate to the right shape.
While I was on a roll, I added the drag beam too.
Then it was more rivets prior to fitting the front section
The bending and fitting of the two dropped curved ends of the footplate. These are full thickness etch and at0.45mm in Nickel they take a bit of bending.
First, I fitted the valences using a piece of square bass bar and some surgical clamps to hold it in place and vertical to the footplate. Just a case of tack in several places along the length and then seem between them.
Next on to the dropped sections, I started with the rear section for no other reason than the front section needed the rivets pressing out and I had done enough of that for the day when I finished the footplate earlier in the day.
I marked up the start of the bend and another line which should have been the middle of the bend but fell somewhat short. In the event this wasn't an issue as by some miracle I managed to bend it almost perfect first time. It just needed a gentle bash with a rubber mallet to get the last bit of the curve where it meets the footplate to the right shape.
While I was on a roll, I added the drag beam too.
Then it was more rivets prior to fitting the front section
Rob Pulham
Western Thunderer
In my last post I mentioned that bending the full thickness nickel was a bit of a bu**ger. The front drop section proved doubly so.
The handicaps on the front section being that it’s physically shorter so less metal to get leverage with to make the bend and all those rivets that I didn’t want to flatten in the process.
I folded a sheet of printer paper (an old invoice which I keep for scribbling notes on the blank rear side) several times to give me a nice thickness of padding and started to make the bend. To my relief like the back one, having tried it against the side of the valence, I had got it pretty near on the first go.
Then I tried it sat on top of the valance and you can understand my complete and utter dismay! when I noticed the recesses for the lamp irons were sat up under the front of the footplate.
I had somehow managed to turn it around when I wrapped it in the paper and I had nicely created the curve in the wrong end. I am surprised that they didn’t hear my exclamation of Oh sh*t! in York. The only saving grace was that it was a bend not a fold and I hadn’t started to further the bend to get it to fit flush under the front of the footplate.
The good news is that I managed to recover it and re-bend it at the right end.
These two photos show it after straightening and re-bending at the right end and a dry fit before soldering
These are of it fitted along with the buffer plank.
Finally, the weapons of choice used to get me out of my self-created mess.
Plus, the all-important ‘how I did it’.
It’s worth mentioning right from the outset that I didn’t anneal it, nor did I consider doing so.
My workbench is partly covered with a sheet of toughened glass, while the other ‘half’ has a cutting mat. I usually use the glass section for soldering and making sure that things are flat/square.
I put the dropped section rivet face down on the folded paper on the toughened glass and gently tapped it with the rubber mallet to start to reduce the curve. Once this had been reduced some. I moved over on to the cutting mat with a 6” x 6” square of hard acrylic sheet that came with my hold and fold.
Its primary use is a firm base for cutting parts from etches. But it in this instance it provided a firm base where I could tap a bit firmer without risking breaking my glass sheet.
I managed to get quite a bit of the curve back out it before moving to the vice and after fitting one side with the soft jaw (the black angle piece in the photo) I started to bend the curve again at the right end.
Once I had the curve in and seated against the footplate, the front end still had a slight curve left in it (see the first photo). To remove this, I placed the part rivet side down on top of the vice jaw with the curved section overhanging.
Then using the length of 10mm brass bar in the photo, I laid it along the length of the curve and gently tapped with the mallet until it took most of the remaining curve out and then I finished of by putting a piece of green pan scrubber under the paper to allow a bit of give and then used the brass bar to ‘roll out’ the remainder of the curve. Making sure to stop before it started to curl the other way.
I share this in the hope that it will give someone else the confidence to have a go at recovering from a wrongly bent piece at some point.
The handicaps on the front section being that it’s physically shorter so less metal to get leverage with to make the bend and all those rivets that I didn’t want to flatten in the process.
I folded a sheet of printer paper (an old invoice which I keep for scribbling notes on the blank rear side) several times to give me a nice thickness of padding and started to make the bend. To my relief like the back one, having tried it against the side of the valence, I had got it pretty near on the first go.
Then I tried it sat on top of the valance and you can understand my complete and utter dismay! when I noticed the recesses for the lamp irons were sat up under the front of the footplate.
I had somehow managed to turn it around when I wrapped it in the paper and I had nicely created the curve in the wrong end. I am surprised that they didn’t hear my exclamation of Oh sh*t! in York. The only saving grace was that it was a bend not a fold and I hadn’t started to further the bend to get it to fit flush under the front of the footplate.
The good news is that I managed to recover it and re-bend it at the right end.
These two photos show it after straightening and re-bending at the right end and a dry fit before soldering
These are of it fitted along with the buffer plank.
Finally, the weapons of choice used to get me out of my self-created mess.
Plus, the all-important ‘how I did it’.
It’s worth mentioning right from the outset that I didn’t anneal it, nor did I consider doing so.
My workbench is partly covered with a sheet of toughened glass, while the other ‘half’ has a cutting mat. I usually use the glass section for soldering and making sure that things are flat/square.
I put the dropped section rivet face down on the folded paper on the toughened glass and gently tapped it with the rubber mallet to start to reduce the curve. Once this had been reduced some. I moved over on to the cutting mat with a 6” x 6” square of hard acrylic sheet that came with my hold and fold.
Its primary use is a firm base for cutting parts from etches. But it in this instance it provided a firm base where I could tap a bit firmer without risking breaking my glass sheet.
I managed to get quite a bit of the curve back out it before moving to the vice and after fitting one side with the soft jaw (the black angle piece in the photo) I started to bend the curve again at the right end.
Once I had the curve in and seated against the footplate, the front end still had a slight curve left in it (see the first photo). To remove this, I placed the part rivet side down on top of the vice jaw with the curved section overhanging.
Then using the length of 10mm brass bar in the photo, I laid it along the length of the curve and gently tapped with the mallet until it took most of the remaining curve out and then I finished of by putting a piece of green pan scrubber under the paper to allow a bit of give and then used the brass bar to ‘roll out’ the remainder of the curve. Making sure to stop before it started to curl the other way.
I share this in the hope that it will give someone else the confidence to have a go at recovering from a wrongly bent piece at some point.
Rob Pulham
Western Thunderer
Thanks Dave,
It certainly was.
Rob Pulham
Western Thunderer
Although I intended only to make sure that the footplate fits the chassis correctly, I got a little carried away and added quite a bit of detail. In reality it actually doesn't look much but probably represents 5 or 6 hours work.
In this kit there are quite a few parts that require trimming to fit. In fairness, the instructions do mention it and it's better to have them oversized, than parts being too small. But it really does create a time sink.
The buffers provided are some rather nice Hobby horse items but like the LG valve guides, the etched holes are too big for the stems. So, I had to turn up a couple more spacers to locate them properly. I won’t bore you further, with photos of them.
I had in mind that the piston rod covers were white metal items, so I was fully prepared to turn replacements if they were out of register like some of the other castings have been but I was pleasantly surprised to find some nice brass castings on the sprues.
Although I have wittered, above about having to trim a good number of parts. Despite having to trim them to fit, the design of the splasher tops made them some of the easiest I have ever fitted. That is once I had them bent to the right shape and managed to hang onto them to tack solder in place - they kept slipping out of my fingers... can't blame the kit for my being clumsy.
In this kit there are quite a few parts that require trimming to fit. In fairness, the instructions do mention it and it's better to have them oversized, than parts being too small. But it really does create a time sink.
The buffers provided are some rather nice Hobby horse items but like the LG valve guides, the etched holes are too big for the stems. So, I had to turn up a couple more spacers to locate them properly. I won’t bore you further, with photos of them.
I had in mind that the piston rod covers were white metal items, so I was fully prepared to turn replacements if they were out of register like some of the other castings have been but I was pleasantly surprised to find some nice brass castings on the sprues.
Although I have wittered, above about having to trim a good number of parts. Despite having to trim them to fit, the design of the splasher tops made them some of the easiest I have ever fitted. That is once I had them bent to the right shape and managed to hang onto them to tack solder in place - they kept slipping out of my fingers... can't blame the kit for my being clumsy.
Rob Pulham
Western Thunderer
Life has overtaken me this week so far so not much progress on the Princess. I did manage to solder up the boiler which to be fair had been quite nicely rolled and only needed minor tweaks to get it completely round. I had to shave a small amount beyond the etching cusp off the former to get it to fit in the half etch slot in the boiler front but other than that it was quite a smooth process.
Here it is sat on the footplate with the firebox
Here it is sat on the footplate with the firebox
Len Cattley
Western Thunderer
Hi Rob, I love the build you are doing to this kit. Have you come across any problems with the boiler, as when Nick Dunhill did 3 a couple of years ago he had problems with making it square?
Len
Len
Rob Pulham
Western Thunderer
Thanks Len,
Not so far, but then I haven't made up the cab and the smokebox/saddle yet so it's difficult to tell at this stage. I believe that the issues Nick had, meant that he had to cut into the firebox casting to get things to line up. Fingers crossed I don't have to go down that route.
Len Cattley
Western Thunderer
Yes it was.
Rob Pulham
Western Thunderer
Today has been very productive in terms of tackling the smokebox.
After a conversation about rolling a 0.45mm sheet including rivets pressed out with Richard Spoors @Richard Spoors. Where we concluded that my GW 10” rollers were not man enough for the job and would flex. I decided to have a go at rolling the smokebox using the rolling bars on my Warco ‘MiniFormit’ which are a touch over 28mm in diameter so unlikely to flex.
Although I have had it for a number of years, I have only ever used it as a guillotine until today. Rather than risk the actual smokebox to an unknown piece of equipment I decided that I would cut a similar sized piece of 0.45mm sheet and have a go.
Although the actual process of rolling is broadly similar to the GW roller the Warco rollers are of the pinch variety and I must have pinched a little unevenly because I noted on my test piece that one end was marginally wider than the other. Not enough to be an issue but something to be aware of.
The other issue that I encountered was controlling the amount of ‘roll’ On the GW rollers there are two cap head screws on the top that you tighten down simultaneously to get an even roll. The adjustment screws are on the back of the Warco unit so harder to see. They consist of a threaded rod with a round knob locked on with a nut.
Those issues aside, the first go turned out pretty good and it’s perfectly usable. If I don’t find a use for it on a loco at some point, I can always use it as a wagon load.
Having done the rolling, I had some thoughts about how best to regulate the amount of roll as the screws are adjusted and came up with the idea of adding a blob of paint on the flats of the locking nut.
I wound both of them to a fixed point and then put a blob of coloured paint on the opposite flats on both nuts – White, Red and Blue so I can now see that I have turned them both by equal amounts.
Not the easiest thing to photograph as it's bolted to the bench and the screws are on the back.
After a conversation about rolling a 0.45mm sheet including rivets pressed out with Richard Spoors @Richard Spoors. Where we concluded that my GW 10” rollers were not man enough for the job and would flex. I decided to have a go at rolling the smokebox using the rolling bars on my Warco ‘MiniFormit’ which are a touch over 28mm in diameter so unlikely to flex.
Although I have had it for a number of years, I have only ever used it as a guillotine until today. Rather than risk the actual smokebox to an unknown piece of equipment I decided that I would cut a similar sized piece of 0.45mm sheet and have a go.
Although the actual process of rolling is broadly similar to the GW roller the Warco rollers are of the pinch variety and I must have pinched a little unevenly because I noted on my test piece that one end was marginally wider than the other. Not enough to be an issue but something to be aware of.
The other issue that I encountered was controlling the amount of ‘roll’ On the GW rollers there are two cap head screws on the top that you tighten down simultaneously to get an even roll. The adjustment screws are on the back of the Warco unit so harder to see. They consist of a threaded rod with a round knob locked on with a nut.
Those issues aside, the first go turned out pretty good and it’s perfectly usable. If I don’t find a use for it on a loco at some point, I can always use it as a wagon load.
Having done the rolling, I had some thoughts about how best to regulate the amount of roll as the screws are adjusted and came up with the idea of adding a blob of paint on the flats of the locking nut.
I wound both of them to a fixed point and then put a blob of coloured paint on the opposite flats on both nuts – White, Red and Blue so I can now see that I have turned them both by equal amounts.
Not the easiest thing to photograph as it's bolted to the bench and the screws are on the back.
mike evans
Active Member
Simond
Two possible suggestions
Use a secondary piece of sheet material slightly thicker than the depth of the rivet that fits between the rivets. Then roll the two together. Might work
Using the lathe, machine two grooves in the bottom rollers just deep enough to take the rivets.
Mike
simond
Western Thunderer
Thx Mike,
I thought about the former (see what I did there
) suggestion but think you’d end up with all sorts of distortion at the ends of the tube, where the rivets are most likely to be.
I hadn’t thought of turning grooves in the rollers, but I don’t fancy doing that, it’s a one-way ticket!
cheers
Simon
I thought about the former (see what I did there
) suggestion but think you’d end up with all sorts of distortion at the ends of the tube, where the rivets are most likely to be.I hadn’t thought of turning grooves in the rollers, but I don’t fancy doing that, it’s a one-way ticket!
cheers
Simon
Richard Spoors
Western Thunderer
Hi Rob, looks like a 2nd test with another piece of brass sheet after you've pressed a row of rivets out. Using a piece of 1mm thick card to protect the rivets it should be okay. I'm unsure if the 'pinching' is likely to damage the rivets or the rollers. Good luck!Today has been very productive in terms of tackling the smokebox.
After a conversation about rolling a 0.45mm sheet including rivets pressed out with Richard Spoors @Richard Spoors. Where we concluded that my GW 10” rollers were not man enough for the job and would flex. I decided to have a go at rolling the smokebox using the rolling bars on my Warco ‘MiniFormit’ which are a touch over 28mm in diameter so unlikely to flex.
Although I have had it for a number of years, I have only ever used it as a guillotine until today. Rather than risk the actual smokebox to an unknown piece of equipment I decided that I would cut a similar sized piece of 0.45mm sheet and have a go.
Although the actual process of rolling is broadly similar to the GW roller the Warco rollers are of the pinch variety and I must have pinched a little unevenly because I noted on my test piece that one end was marginally wider than the other. Not enough to be an issue but something to be aware of.
The other issue that I encountered was controlling the amount of ‘roll’ On the GW rollers there are two cap head screws on the top that you tighten down simultaneously to get an even roll. The adjustment screws are on the back of the Warco unit so harder to see. They consist of a threaded rod with a round knob locked on with a nut.
Those issues aside, the first go turned out pretty good and it’s perfectly usable. If I don’t find a use for it on a loco at some point, I can always use it as a wagon load.
Having done the rolling, I had some thoughts about how best to regulate the amount of roll as the screws are adjusted and came up with the idea of adding a blob of paint on the flats of the locking nut.
I wound both of them to a fixed point and then put a blob of coloured paint on the opposite flats on both nuts – White, Red and Blue so I can now see that I have turned them both by equal amounts.
Not the easiest thing to photograph as it's bolted to the bench and the screws are on the back.
Richard
Rob Pulham
Western Thunderer
Thanks gents,
Rolling with the rivets in place was the least worrisome to be honest as Richard and Mike suggest backing it with a piece of card has worked fine for me in the past albeit not with pinch rollers.
Mike suggestion of grooving the rollers wouldn't work for me as you will see in the next post as the rivets don't just run lengthways. I must admit Like Simon, I don't really fancy tackling that one.
Rolling with the rivets in place was the least worrisome to be honest as Richard and Mike suggest backing it with a piece of card has worked fine for me in the past albeit not with pinch rollers.
Mike suggestion of grooving the rollers wouldn't work for me as you will see in the next post as the rivets don't just run lengthways. I must admit Like Simon, I don't really fancy tackling that one.
Rob Pulham
Western Thunderer
Looking at all the rivets to be pressed out I decided that I would finally get around to doing something that I had been promising myself for years. That’s to make a more comfortable handle for the GW Models rivet press. Those who own the smaller of the two models will understand where I am coming from. The bigger 7mm/Gauge 1 version has a round end to the handle the smaller version just has a rectangular bar which gets mighty uncomfortable when pressing a lot of rivets.
My solution was to drill a 13mm hole in a piece of 20mm acetal rod and tap it onto the rectangular bar.
So simple but so much more comfortable.
It didn’t make pressing the rivets out any quicker but it saved the hand, some grief.
Ordinarily I would have taken the slight curl out of the sheet by setting the rivets using a jeweller’s stone setting tool, a technique picked up from Peter Dunn. However, because I plan to roll this and the curl is in the right orientation, I left it as is.
To roll the smokebox with the rivets embossed I backed it with a piece of card from a biscuit packet (Tesco Finest Chocolate Gingers – other sources of card are available).
Once I filed the etching cusp off the rear former it dropped straight in.
My solution was to drill a 13mm hole in a piece of 20mm acetal rod and tap it onto the rectangular bar.
So simple but so much more comfortable.
It didn’t make pressing the rivets out any quicker but it saved the hand, some grief.
Ordinarily I would have taken the slight curl out of the sheet by setting the rivets using a jeweller’s stone setting tool, a technique picked up from Peter Dunn. However, because I plan to roll this and the curl is in the right orientation, I left it as is.
To roll the smokebox with the rivets embossed I backed it with a piece of card from a biscuit packet (Tesco Finest Chocolate Gingers – other sources of card are available).
Once I filed the etching cusp off the rear former it dropped straight in.
Ian@StEnochs
Western Thunderer
Rob,
Mostly I use 10 thou NS for boilers and roll them in my home made Vee type rollers. I have a piece of rubber sheet, could be neoprene, about 2mm thick which protects the rivets. I also have a Metalsmith set which are quite long but of the ‘pinch’ type which tend to bend and give a less than perfect tube.
Ian.
Mostly I use 10 thou NS for boilers and roll them in my home made Vee type rollers. I have a piece of rubber sheet, could be neoprene, about 2mm thick which protects the rivets. I also have a Metalsmith set which are quite long but of the ‘pinch’ type which tend to bend and give a less than perfect tube.
Ian.
Rob Pulham
Western Thunderer
It certainly works for me Simon although I do like Ian's rubber/neoprene idea too. I usually keep a piece of card in my GW roller box but noted yesterday that it was getting a bit tired so I need to replace it. - good excuse to eat more biscuits...