Terry Howlett
Active Member
Absolutely superb level of detail Dave. Very impressive.
Terry
Terry
4mm Brassmasters Rebuilt Royal Scot, 46109
- Thread starter Dave Holt
- Start date
Dave Holt
Western Thunderer
Thanks Terry.
Inching ever forward, the steam pipe cover castings have been prepared by filing about 0.5 mm off the inside face, as warned in the kit instructions. They are now placed but not yet fixed - no modelling this evening due to significant wine consumption.
Dave.
Inching ever forward, the steam pipe cover castings have been prepared by filing about 0.5 mm off the inside face, as warned in the kit instructions. They are now placed but not yet fixed - no modelling this evening due to significant wine consumption.
Dave.
Terry Howlett
Active Member
That really made me chuckle as I'd stopped working on a couple of locomotives about two hours ago " due to significant wine consumption"!
That last picture is really great Dave.
Terry
Dave Holt
Western Thunderer
Thanks for the comment, Larry. Not being a painter, I don't have any particular problem with resin boilers. It carries crisp, fine detail well and is a lot easier than trying to form taper boilers and curvaceous Stanier Belpaire fireboxes from sheet material. They do need thorough de-greasing, though.
Once painted, no-one can tell the material. It's main drawback, for me, is the lack of weight. However, the Brassmasters resins are well hollowed out and come with a nice cast tapered weight for the boiler and I have added sheet lead above the motor in the top of the firebox.
How the mighty are fallen!
It didn't take long at all to reduce the almost complete loco previously shown to this collection of assorted bits.
I've taken it apart in order to correct the ride height and fit the pick-up mounting pads inside the frames. I had found that, although the loco was sitting dead level, it was about 0.3 to 0.4 mm too low. I'm addressing that by fitting 16 BA washers (0.3 mm thick by good luck) to the top of the coil spring locating spigots (already done) and 0.4 mm thick packers under the bogie compensating beam springs.
Copper clad pads had been prepared from thinned down sleeper strip and these have been fixed inside the frames using 5 minute epoxy. A start has been made on the wiring that connects the two sets of pads.
Whilst the frames are bare, I'll fit some material behind the large circular holes in the frames, just in front of the cab. The rear end of the firebox and ash pan block sighting right through but are not provided for in the kit.
Whilst it's all in bits, I can't decide whether to paint the chassis parts or leave it till after I've got it running.
Dave.
Once painted, no-one can tell the material. It's main drawback, for me, is the lack of weight. However, the Brassmasters resins are well hollowed out and come with a nice cast tapered weight for the boiler and I have added sheet lead above the motor in the top of the firebox.
How the mighty are fallen!
It didn't take long at all to reduce the almost complete loco previously shown to this collection of assorted bits.
I've taken it apart in order to correct the ride height and fit the pick-up mounting pads inside the frames. I had found that, although the loco was sitting dead level, it was about 0.3 to 0.4 mm too low. I'm addressing that by fitting 16 BA washers (0.3 mm thick by good luck) to the top of the coil spring locating spigots (already done) and 0.4 mm thick packers under the bogie compensating beam springs.
Copper clad pads had been prepared from thinned down sleeper strip and these have been fixed inside the frames using 5 minute epoxy. A start has been made on the wiring that connects the two sets of pads.
Whilst the frames are bare, I'll fit some material behind the large circular holes in the frames, just in front of the cab. The rear end of the firebox and ash pan block sighting right through but are not provided for in the kit.
Whilst it's all in bits, I can't decide whether to paint the chassis parts or leave it till after I've got it running.
Dave.
Mike Garwood
Western Thunderer
Dave
Always a conundrum...to paint or not to paint...were it my engine, if it ran freely before stripping down, then I'd go ahead and paint. Spectacular work my friend and a real treat seeing it come together.
Stay safe
Mike
Always a conundrum...to paint or not to paint...were it my engine, if it ran freely before stripping down, then I'd go ahead and paint. Spectacular work my friend and a real treat seeing it come together.
Stay safe
Mike
Dave Holt
Western Thunderer
Thanks, Mike.
Although the chassis pushes along quite freely, as I haven't fitted the pick-ups. yet, the loco has never run at all. I know from running the modified gearbox out of the chassis that there is a problem with the gears being stiff in one place. I'm hoping the tight spot will ease with running in, otherwise I'll have to punch out the intermediate shafts and swap the gears from another box. This should be possible without disturbing the driving axle or wheels. Fingers crossed.
The pick-up pads are now connected and checked for continuity and no shorts to the frames. The pick-ups will have to be formed and fitted with the wheels in place.
The loco part of the tender draw bar has been made and fitted. The draw bar is a tube, threaded 14 BA at the loco end and a 14 BA screw at the tender, thus allowing the length to be adjusted in half turns so the free movement without excessive play can be achieved.
Dave.
Although the chassis pushes along quite freely, as I haven't fitted the pick-ups. yet, the loco has never run at all. I know from running the modified gearbox out of the chassis that there is a problem with the gears being stiff in one place. I'm hoping the tight spot will ease with running in, otherwise I'll have to punch out the intermediate shafts and swap the gears from another box. This should be possible without disturbing the driving axle or wheels. Fingers crossed.
The pick-up pads are now connected and checked for continuity and no shorts to the frames. The pick-ups will have to be formed and fitted with the wheels in place.
The loco part of the tender draw bar has been made and fitted. The draw bar is a tube, threaded 14 BA at the loco end and a 14 BA screw at the tender, thus allowing the length to be adjusted in half turns so the free movement without excessive play can be achieved.
Dave.
Dave Holt
Western Thunderer
A quick update on the gearbox issue.
On looking at it after posting, above, I found it almost seized solid. After some poking around and trying to clear any debris from the gear teeth, it became a bit better, but still a problem. I then noticed that the lay shafts appeared not quite square to the side plates and found that the upper motor mounting bolt did not engage easily. The frame was tweaked slightly and re-fixed to the motor mount. Joy! All of a sudden all was free.
The motor was powered up using jump leads and ran smoothly in both directions. To help maintain the new alignment, the previously riveted spacing pillars, between the side plates, have now also been soldered. Still all is free. Phew!
Ready to re-assemble now.
Dave.
On looking at it after posting, above, I found it almost seized solid. After some poking around and trying to clear any debris from the gear teeth, it became a bit better, but still a problem. I then noticed that the lay shafts appeared not quite square to the side plates and found that the upper motor mounting bolt did not engage easily. The frame was tweaked slightly and re-fixed to the motor mount. Joy! All of a sudden all was free.
The motor was powered up using jump leads and ran smoothly in both directions. To help maintain the new alignment, the previously riveted spacing pillars, between the side plates, have now also been soldered. Still all is free. Phew!
Ready to re-assemble now.
Dave.
LarryG
Western Thunderer
Resin boilers I've handled in the past expanded and shrank. If tightly fixed down at each end, I've seen the running plate warp. The handrails move along through the handrail knobs and display unpainted metal in some temperatures. Some companies went over to Pewter boilers.
Dave Holt
Western Thunderer
There are now signs of life in the beast although it's clear that some adjustments are going to be required; but it's a start.
First, I tried pushing the loco through the station throat cross-over on my embryonic layout to no avail. The front bogie would just not follow the curved route and just derailed straight away. I eventually traced at least part of the problem to the rear bogie wheel rims rubbing on part of the cylinder drain cock arrangements. Fortunately, the offending parts were completely superfluous to the finished assembly and were simply cut out. That's made a huge difference, but there is more to do to get reliable track holding, possibly including getting more weight on to the bogie.
The next issue was short circuits from the brake blocks. These were very close to the wheel treads but had thought they were just clear with the springs slightly compressed. Wrong. Luckily, I managed (almost by accident) to disentangle the brake rigging from the keeper plate.dummy spring and sand pipe assemblies. It's a bit like those interlocked ring puzzles you get in Christmas crackers. The problem is, that since the rear wheel hangers sort of fell free whist I was fiddling the those for the centre axle, I didn't see how it happened and I'm not sure quite what will be involved in reassembling them! Anyway, various areas of the brake blocks were trimmed using a small slitting disc and half round needle files. All is OK now.
Finally, I've set about the pick-ups. They're all made (from 0.31 mm brass wire) and the ones which bear on the centre and rear wheels have been attached.
They started out being quite symmetrical, as seen in the photo (the white and orange wires, partially obscuring the pick-ups, are the jumper wires from the copper clad pads to the motor), but trial fitting of the motor resulted in the need for quite drastic re-routing of those for the rear wheels. After making the electrical connections, the chassis was tried under power and some movement created. It even went the right way, purely by chance. Running was a bit intermittent - possibly due to dirty track and/or wheels. Front pick-ups to fit next.
Dave.
First, I tried pushing the loco through the station throat cross-over on my embryonic layout to no avail. The front bogie would just not follow the curved route and just derailed straight away. I eventually traced at least part of the problem to the rear bogie wheel rims rubbing on part of the cylinder drain cock arrangements. Fortunately, the offending parts were completely superfluous to the finished assembly and were simply cut out. That's made a huge difference, but there is more to do to get reliable track holding, possibly including getting more weight on to the bogie.
The next issue was short circuits from the brake blocks. These were very close to the wheel treads but had thought they were just clear with the springs slightly compressed. Wrong. Luckily, I managed (almost by accident) to disentangle the brake rigging from the keeper plate.dummy spring and sand pipe assemblies. It's a bit like those interlocked ring puzzles you get in Christmas crackers. The problem is, that since the rear wheel hangers sort of fell free whist I was fiddling the those for the centre axle, I didn't see how it happened and I'm not sure quite what will be involved in reassembling them! Anyway, various areas of the brake blocks were trimmed using a small slitting disc and half round needle files. All is OK now.
Finally, I've set about the pick-ups. They're all made (from 0.31 mm brass wire) and the ones which bear on the centre and rear wheels have been attached.
They started out being quite symmetrical, as seen in the photo (the white and orange wires, partially obscuring the pick-ups, are the jumper wires from the copper clad pads to the motor), but trial fitting of the motor resulted in the need for quite drastic re-routing of those for the rear wheels. After making the electrical connections, the chassis was tried under power and some movement created. It even went the right way, purely by chance. Running was a bit intermittent - possibly due to dirty track and/or wheels. Front pick-ups to fit next.
Dave.
Dave Holt
Western Thunderer
The pick-up saga continues. Yet further tweaks have been required to the rear wheel pick-ups due to interference with the inside of the resin firebox. Some minor shaving from inside the latter was also done as a precaution. The final, rather convoluted shape of these pick-ups is seen below. Also seen are the copper clad connector pads mounted on the gearbox side. The white and orange wires previously mentioned connect the pick-ups to the bottom section of the pads, which are temporarily bridged to the upper section and thence the motor. In due course, the bridging wires will be removed and connections made to and from the DCC decoder.
The front wheel pick-ups have now also been fitted. The chassis now runs very reliably with the 6 wheel current collection, even without any track or wheel cleaning. However, I think the top inner part of the front pick-ups might be touching the underside of the boiler, so some further adjustment is required.
Further trials with the coupling rods and then full valve gear are the next steps. Then, the dreaded smoke deflectors.....
Dave.
The front wheel pick-ups have now also been fitted. The chassis now runs very reliably with the 6 wheel current collection, even without any track or wheel cleaning. However, I think the top inner part of the front pick-ups might be touching the underside of the boiler, so some further adjustment is required.
Further trials with the coupling rods and then full valve gear are the next steps. Then, the dreaded smoke deflectors.....
Dave.
Mike Garwood
Western Thunderer
Dave
Splendid stuff as always. Why brass over NS? You've really given me some ideas about pick ups and where to put them. Pick ups have - and continue to be - the part I like the least about model building.
Mike
Splendid stuff as always. Why brass over NS? You've really given me some ideas about pick ups and where to put them. Pick ups have - and continue to be - the part I like the least about model building.
Mike
Dave Holt
Western Thunderer
Tradition, Mike. I've nearly always used brass wire for pick-ups. I don't know if there are any electrical pros and cons to the various material possibilities. I suspect that I only had brass in the past and since I've found it quite satisfactory, I've stuck with it. I think I might have used phosphor bronze on one loco (I think I've seen it suggested it's more springy than brass or n/s).
Like you, I don't much like doing the pick-ups, which i probably why I've left it so late in the construction. Mind you, if fitted too early, they invariable clash with some detailed parts required later on. I experienced that issue when finishing off a part built chassis for a friend. There was a lovely, neat pick-up bang where the exhaust steam injector needed to go! My replacement wasn't half as neat, but at least it missed the injector and feed pipe.
Dave.
PS. I didn't comment on your thread, but that''s a mightily fundamental rebuild on the pannier chassis
.
Like you, I don't much like doing the pick-ups, which i probably why I've left it so late in the construction. Mind you, if fitted too early, they invariable clash with some detailed parts required later on. I experienced that issue when finishing off a part built chassis for a friend. There was a lovely, neat pick-up bang where the exhaust steam injector needed to go! My replacement wasn't half as neat, but at least it missed the injector and feed pipe.
Dave.
PS. I didn't comment on your thread, but that''s a mightily fundamental rebuild on the pannier chassis
.
Dave Holt
Western Thunderer
Having made final adjustments to the pick-ups, the loco has now made its first self propelled movements with all the rods and valve gear on. Not perfect, but not bad for first running and everything bone dry. Lubrication of joints and gear box and a bit of running in should improve things and quieten it down - the dreaded cement mixer Portescap graunch is very much present.
It had be previously run as a bare chassis with no rods, chassis and body with no rods, and with coupling rods only.
I made my first ever video of the forward and backwards runs but haven't been able to figure out how to up-load then on here. They are currently saved as Mov files.
Dave.
It had be previously run as a bare chassis with no rods, chassis and body with no rods, and with coupling rods only.
I made my first ever video of the forward and backwards runs but haven't been able to figure out how to up-load then on here. They are currently saved as Mov files.
Dave.
Dave Holt
Western Thunderer
Having got the loco running reasonably well and just missing a few additional parts, I thought I might turn my attention to the tender. My previous Brassmasters tender, for Black 5, 45232, proved to be a bit of a challenge regarding the chassis, so for 46109 I decided to replace the kit chassis with the Lanarkshire Models CSB version. I've previously built a couple of these and found them excellent.
Having made that decision and purchasing the LMS chassis, I realised that the Brassmasters kit is one of the older, compensated, type rather than the later CSB version I had struggled with. Oh hum! Still, too far committed now to change track.
Of course, marrying the two makes together is going to require some modifications to the mating parts, since the LMS chassis is really aimed at converting RTR tenders.
I've made a start and here we see the LMS main chassis, with its High Level horn guides and axle boxes, together with the Brassmasters outer chassis etch and tank base plate.
Dave.
Having made that decision and purchasing the LMS chassis, I realised that the Brassmasters kit is one of the older, compensated, type rather than the later CSB version I had struggled with. Oh hum! Still, too far committed now to change track.
Of course, marrying the two makes together is going to require some modifications to the mating parts, since the LMS chassis is really aimed at converting RTR tenders.
I've made a start and here we see the LMS main chassis, with its High Level horn guides and axle boxes, together with the Brassmasters outer chassis etch and tank base plate.
Dave.
Dave Holt
Western Thunderer
The tender inner chassis now has its CSB suspension and wheels. At present, it is sitting on temporary brass wire springs to avoid any risk of getting flux on the steel versions.
The only issue I've found so far is that the chassis is facing the wrong way round relative to the loco. I'll give that some thought before progressing further. Oh yes, and I've managed to snap off the half etched boss for the scoop operating arm, between the middle and rear wheels.
Dave.
The only issue I've found so far is that the chassis is facing the wrong way round relative to the loco. I'll give that some thought before progressing further. Oh yes, and I've managed to snap off the half etched boss for the scoop operating arm, between the middle and rear wheels.
Dave.
Mike Garwood
Western Thunderer
Dave
"The only issue I've found so far is that the chassis is facing the wrong way round relative to the loco"
Are you saying the over hang at the front - from the centre of the front axles - is too long? And is too short from the rear?
Mike
"The only issue I've found so far is that the chassis is facing the wrong way round relative to the loco"
Are you saying the over hang at the front - from the centre of the front axles - is too long? And is too short from the rear?
Mike
Mike Garwood
Western Thunderer
Ahh, me being stupid again...I'm laughing over the confusion 