Boomers Wood

[Pennine MC]

The second is that (from memory) there's quite a bit of slop between rail and track in OO straight from the box, when pushed this slop is positively unhelpful as the pusher and pushed will want to move away from each other. .

That would be my understanding of the issue, from both 'book learning' and more empirical dabblings in 4mm - obviously there are always 'ifs and buts' and things that can be tried, but generally the finer the track and wheel standards, the less likely you are to get problems of this nature.

 

[Eastsidepilot]

Steve,
Whats the difference in lenght if you use points of a broader angle, plus how about altering the track plan to run at angle to the boards, as I've shown on the plan. It might just give some space
I would definatly use sprung buffers and some ballast under or in the wagons.

Col.

 

[28ten]

The only problem is that by the time you have used a larger radius curve and pushed the b2b out you might as well have built it in Em in the first place. This is where Jordans point about Dark side makes sense if the objective is to get a result in reasonable time

 

[Eastsidepilot]

I reckon the radius of the points has got to be changed, you'll only get away with tension lock couplings on 2'-0" r. which is an equivilent of an A4-4 1/4 switch/crossing approx.
If you go down the route of hand built points then a 1:6 crossing angle and an "A" switch will keep it shorter , while the radius through the closure rails will be close to 4'-0", but it's time

Col.

 

[Neil]

.... you'll only get away with tension lock couplings on 2'-0" r ....

I've just been for a play upstairs, my EM gauge Isle of Avalon Tramway has a sub 2' crossover (about 1'10") that my four wheeled locos and stock have no problems with. Tonight I've tried it with a class 24 and a variety of 9' and 10' wb wagons with scale buffers. It's a little hit and miss, but I'd be confident that slightly over-scale buffers and five minutes work on the back to back setting would give a result. I might also prescribe a slight altering of the loop to give a short straight between the reverse curves, a slightly more subtle way of achieving this would be to trim back the curved road of the point, giving a shallower angle of divergence and allowing a straight section before the reverse curve but without increasing the six foot between loop and main.

 

[Steve Cook]

FFS. Just wrote a long reply detailing all the work carried out with everyones advice and its just disappeared into the ether Can I just leave it with thanks to everyone for their help so far, I've made some progress and will report back if the computer survives the lob out of the window

Edit to add, like how it keeps the damn photo but looses the associated text Might as well have a full image of the problem children then

 

[28ten]

Steve, normally hitting the back button will retrieve the post, sounds like you had a timeout
The image gets uploaded as it is added which is why it is still there.

 

[Steve Cook]

Steve, normally hitting the back button will retrieve the post, sounds like you had a timeout
The image gets uploaded as it is added which is why it is still there.

Ok Guv, that would explain it. It did take some time to write the post to answer everyones suggestions, any idea how long one can type before a timeout?
Ta
Steve

 

[28ten]

Ok Guv, that would explain it. It did take some time to write the post to answer everyones suggestions, any idea how long one can type before a timeout?
Ta
Steve

900 seconds - 15 minutes. Id always recommend that longer posts are done in notepad then cut and paste.

 

[Steve Cook]

900 seconds - 15 minutes. Id always recommend that longer posts are done in notepad then cut and paste.

Ahh, went well past that Noted for the future...

 

[Dog Star]

On the subject of posts which require some time to compose, how can one save a draft post at this time? When writing a post which has several photos and those photos have lengthy captions I have encountered the timeout in the past, so currently I create an initial post and then make repeated edits to add the photos and captions.

 

[28ten]

Saving draft posts creates some problems writing to the database (so I am told) Google chrome seems pretty good when you get timeouts amd hitting the back button usually saves the day. The other primative alternative is to highlight the text and do a ctrl-c every so often.
I would recommend typing long posts in notepad then copy it over and add the images. That advice would apply to any forum or software.

 

[Dog Star]

I would recommend typing long posts in notepad then copy it over and add the images.

Fairy snuff, thank you.

 

[Captain Kernow]

Steve - just caught up with your problem.

Unless you are going to do some cunning curved filing on the Hymek's buffers, as Simon suggests, I would really avoid doing anything that spoils the look of this superb model.

I agree with Neil and the others who suggest slightly larger heads on the wagons - the heads on the wagon you have illustrated look correct to me, for the type of wagon that it is, but it should be easy enough to remove the existing heads and substitute some turned larger ones from the likes of MJT or Wizard Models. You could even make them sprung at the same time, if you like.

I'm not convinced that fitting sprung buffers to the Hymek is the answer either, although it could solve other problems when it comes to the length of the links. That may be more easily overcome by a bit of careful pulling out of the Hymek's coupling hook, so as to effectively increase the length available between it and whatever wagon it is coupled to.

Failing that, I'm wondering if some 'Local Operating Instructions' may also help. The prototype railway will always overcome 'issues' like this with a restrictive instruction to the staff, if there is no 'hardware' solution. In your case it could include variations on the following examples:

- 'Wagons of the xxxx type must not be propelled into Down Slag Heap Exchange Sidings at Blogsville Junction'
- ' D7XXX locomotives are prohibited from entering the Up Refuge Siding at Little Bugersworth'
- 'All shunting movements between the Upper Mileage Yard and the Up/Down Reception Road at Artichoke Lane Crossing must not exceed walking pace'

You get the drift....


Failing that, easing the curve by careful removal of the web on the points concerned may be the answer...

 

[Simon]

Steve - just caught up with your problem.

Unless you are going to do some cunning curved filing on the Hymek's buffers, as Simon suggests, I would really avoid doing anything that spoils the look of this superb model.

I agree with Neil and the others who suggest slightly larger heads on the wagons - the heads on the wagon you have illustrated look correct to me, for the type of wagon that it is, but it should be easy enough to remove the existing heads and substitute some turned larger ones from the likes of MJT or Wizard Models. You could even make them sprung at the same time, if you like.

I'm not convinced that fitting sprung buffers to the Hymek is the answer either, although it could solve other problems when it comes to the length of the links. That may be more easily overcome by a bit of careful pulling out of the Hymek's coupling hook, so as to effectively increase the length available between it and whatever wagon it is coupled to.

Failing that, I'm wondering if some 'Local Operating Instructions' may also help. The prototype railway will always overcome 'issues' like this with a restrictive instruction to the staff, if there is no 'hardware' solution. In your case it could include variations on the following examples:

- 'Wagons of the xxxx type must not be propelled into Down Slag Heap Exchange Sidings at Blogsville Junction'
- ' D7XXX locomotives are prohibited from entering the Up Refuge Siding at Little Bugersworth'
- 'All shunting movements between the Upper Mileage Yard and the Up/Down Reception Road at Artichoke Lane Crossing must not exceed walking pace'

You get the drift....


Failing that, easing the curve by careful removal of the web on the points concerned may be the answer...

Option "X" has just been mailed to Cook towers

S. Squirrel

 

[Phill Dyson]

You know a cryptic post like that is going leave us all asking what "Option X" actually is.....

Or if you told us, would you then have to kill us...??

mmm....maybe the post before yours is now 'Classified' as it seems to have disappeared ..........the plot thickens

 

[Steve Cook]

The long and short of it, I can't get it to work reliably
I've tried all of the suggestions ( ) , tightened the B2B (introduced more slop and more variablility in the attitude of the wagon in relation to the track), pulled out the B2B to better constrain the buffer position in relation to the rail (made it easier for loco buffers to slip past as they did not have the B2B adjusted), converted the 08 to DCC and tried that out - better, but still problematic.
I've punched some buffers out from plasticard, but reliable running only comes when they reach a comedy 6mm in diameter. I've replaced the right hand point with one that has had all of the webbing cut out and converted to a Y point - still can't get better than 8 out of 10 successful passes. I've tried running quickly, slowly, with and without 3 links connected, heavy weights and no weights. Basically, I can't think of anything else that can be done with the layout as it stands, so new trackwork it is.
The Project X Simon alluded to earlier was a new point, still small radius, but the same as the other two - that would at least have allowed me to have one spec of points and try and sort everything out from there (if you look at my previous post, you can see the RH point has metal check rails - and wider flangeways than the LH point). Alas, that was all based on the fact that the 08 would not suffer from the same problems as the Hymek - they are still present but not to the same extent.
Simon has been good enough to run stock on his layout with a Hymek to check that medium radius points are OK - they are as long as the buffer overhang is fairly small - he has promised to post some pics later so I can see what is possible and what is not.
Ultimately though, I think putting long points at the RH end will alleviate all of the issues and save me from much more mucking around. It corrects the root cause of my running issues and isn't a 'sticking plaster' fix. It will be more expensive, but I should be able to get 100% reliability - which is a pre-requisite for a shunting layout.
Once again, thanks for all of the advice, if I've missed one of your suggestions out above - apologies, but I did work through the lot, I just don't want this post vanishing either

Right, back to printing out point templates and seeing what will fit

Steve

 

[Simon]

Hah - so much for project "X" then

Never mind, it'll look better with larger radius points, and code 75 track.....

Here is the wagon combo that failed on the Peco Medium point, only just mind and I didn't try "improving" anything


It's the plate wagon and the ICI tank whose buffers "miss".

Simon

 

[Steph Dale]

Steve,

It's at roughly the point you've got to where I said 'stuff it' and binned the 00. For HO (whether European or American) I use Kadees and where necessary put up with the appearance for the total reliability. The P4 had Jackson's (and 6 foot radius trackwork)...

Steph

 

[Steve Cook]

Cheers Simon

I know what you mean Steph, but I can get this one to work - its just not quite as quick or cheap as expected Nevermind, it will give me something to run on fairly quickly and I can be happy with that. I'm also going to take on board Col and Simon's suggestions and run a bit more diagonally across the boards, making sure that the shunting roads have the most gentle curves I can get in - in fact if I can get a straight run from the fiddle yard to the main siding, that will get rid of most of the issues....