Automatic 'indicators' on vans & cars
- Thread starter Allen M
- Start date
simond
Western Thunderer
It is that aspect that I find troubling. The inference is that driving is simply too demanding for the average driver and that as we can do something about it, we therefore should.
My preference would be to improve the standard of driving but that would have economic effects that are undesirable in a world that values growth and sales above all other considerations.
Perhaps a cartoon boxing glove that emerges from the dashboard to “admonish” the driver at appropriate moments?
My preference would be to improve the standard of driving but that would have economic effects that are undesirable in a world that values growth and sales above all other considerations.
Perhaps a cartoon boxing glove that emerges from the dashboard to “admonish” the driver at appropriate moments?
simond
Western Thunderer
Wholeheartedly agree!
you could go one further and require a year of motorcycling before being allowed to get even a provisional car licence, and if you wanted to make a real difference, insist upon a recognised course of tuition in an HGV or PSV as well, with say a full day behind the wheel. It might make a few people more aware of other road users’ needs…
you could go one further and require a year of motorcycling before being allowed to get even a provisional car licence, and if you wanted to make a real difference, insist upon a recognised course of tuition in an HGV or PSV as well, with say a full day behind the wheel. It might make a few people more aware of other road users’ needs…
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SimonT
Western Thunderer
Can we change the title of this thread to "The Waldorf and Staedler Thread"?
My turn. I suggest a ban on all those who live within the M25 (and other large cities) and drive a huge pick up such as a Ford Ranger. On the M25 they all have polished spotless paintwork and are driven with great aggression (always high speed in lane three into any cones where they force their way in). All my Welsh neighbours have 4x4 pick ups but they are covered in mud and sheep shit. They all move at 40mph unless they are late for market, when anything goes. A new pick-up signifies action by the accountant.
My turn. I suggest a ban on all those who live within the M25 (and other large cities) and drive a huge pick up such as a Ford Ranger. On the M25 they all have polished spotless paintwork and are driven with great aggression (always high speed in lane three into any cones where they force their way in). All my Welsh neighbours have 4x4 pick ups but they are covered in mud and sheep shit. They all move at 40mph unless they are late for market, when anything goes. A new pick-up signifies action by the accountant.
Jordan
Mid-Western Thunderer
I'd make the inside of the car more dangerous than the outside. Get rid of seat belts & air bags, instead have a 4ft steel spike in the steering column, held in place by a hair trigger device. Any impact - twang...
People would slow down then.
Eastsidepilot
Western Thunderer
Osgood
Western Thunderer
The point I was making was that by introducing all this stuff, certain aspects of the driving experience are removed from the driver.
Some may be done as an additional or back-up safety feature, but are (by some) treated as a driving aid that can perform what should be an important driver input e.g. concentrating on what is happening / going down on the road in front of you.
This of course frees up valuable time that might otherwise be wasted by ‘driving’ for other essentials - like pulling hairs out of your nose using the rear view mirror.
Then again soon they’ll do away with the mirror and install cameras so you then have to think of something more extreme to do with all that time you would otherwise be wasting away by concentrating on the road - any ideas?
As for slamming the brakes on when the door opens - the person who thought this was a good idea never had to reverse a long trailer into a tight yard in the dark, or had to open the door and lean out in order to manoeuvre in very tight spaces out of range of the mirrors.
One night I was reversing a loaded 16ft trailer into a tight yard entrance - once the trailer disappeared out of the mirrors I opened the door and leaned out.
As the rear wheels of the trailer mounted the slight lip at the yard entrance the brakes locked up
Bugger I thought, the trailer over-run brakes have gone wrong (only happened once before).
Pull forward 4 metres try again - exact same spot (lip) brakes lock up.
At the fourth attempt by which time I was running out of patience I glanced a little red light on the dash:
DOOR OPEN - Arrrrgh!
Shoot forward again, lower window, stand up with head out of window and reverse -
BING BING BING Seatbelt warning bang brakes lock up again.
I’d calmed down a month later when I opened the door to clear my throat as I coasted down a gravel roadway at 15mph towards the public highway, but that promptly changed as the brakes slammed on and my head went into the steering wheel.……
And only this week a duff battery on an infrequently used car required replacement by the dealer because the vehicle master brain had to be reset in order to alter its charging regime to that required for a new battery.
Now I don’t know all there is to know about batteries by a mile, but I do know that is &#£@(#)£).
Some may be done as an additional or back-up safety feature, but are (by some) treated as a driving aid that can perform what should be an important driver input e.g. concentrating on what is happening / going down on the road in front of you.
This of course frees up valuable time that might otherwise be wasted by ‘driving’ for other essentials - like pulling hairs out of your nose using the rear view mirror.
Then again soon they’ll do away with the mirror and install cameras so you then have to think of something more extreme to do with all that time you would otherwise be wasting away by concentrating on the road - any ideas?
As for slamming the brakes on when the door opens - the person who thought this was a good idea never had to reverse a long trailer into a tight yard in the dark, or had to open the door and lean out in order to manoeuvre in very tight spaces out of range of the mirrors.
One night I was reversing a loaded 16ft trailer into a tight yard entrance - once the trailer disappeared out of the mirrors I opened the door and leaned out.
As the rear wheels of the trailer mounted the slight lip at the yard entrance the brakes locked up
Bugger I thought, the trailer over-run brakes have gone wrong (only happened once before).
Pull forward 4 metres try again - exact same spot (lip) brakes lock up.
At the fourth attempt by which time I was running out of patience I glanced a little red light on the dash:
DOOR OPEN - Arrrrgh!
Shoot forward again, lower window, stand up with head out of window and reverse -
BING BING BING Seatbelt warning bang brakes lock up again.
I’d calmed down a month later when I opened the door to clear my throat as I coasted down a gravel roadway at 15mph towards the public highway, but that promptly changed as the brakes slammed on and my head went into the steering wheel.……
And only this week a duff battery on an infrequently used car required replacement by the dealer because the vehicle master brain had to be reset in order to alter its charging regime to that required for a new battery.
Now I don’t know all there is to know about batteries by a mile, but I do know that is &#£@(#)£).
Eastsidepilot
Western Thunderer
Within the M25 ? ....it seems Chelsea has expanded !
oldravendale
Western Thunderer
Bucks County Council have an open offer for drivers of a certain age to go out in their own car with an experienced often ex-police driver to assess their driving skills. Memory suggests it costs about £35. I do it every year and can assess where my driving skills might be declining. Something like that should be compulsory for all drivers over a certain age, and what a great idea for all drivers every five years. However, it's a local initiative and doesn't have the dead hand of Government involved, which would doubtless push the cost up to five times the amount I pay.
Re bells and whistles. I turn 'em off, except for traditional cruise control - I detest the adaptive cruise control on my wife's car - and the gutter lights.
Brian
Re bells and whistles. I turn 'em off, except for traditional cruise control - I detest the adaptive cruise control on my wife's car - and the gutter lights.
Brian
Hayfield1
Western Thunderer
I think many of the new driver assist features are very good if and when used correctly.
Automatic windscreen wipers are especially useful when intermittent light rain is falling. I have no issues of main lights coming on automatically when light diminishes. Automatically main beam dipping saves driver distraction
On long journeys cruise control saves £'s on fuel economy, my daughters car automatically both slows down when cars in front slow and automatically accelerate back up to the set speed when the path ahead speeds up
Auditable warnings when you get too close to the car in front and ultimately braking if necessary are good safety features as is lane changing with out indicating.
ABS what a great asset as is traction control (neither for speeding) just allowing us to maintain control
Seat Belts air bags the list goes on.
Automatic windscreen wipers are especially useful when intermittent light rain is falling. I have no issues of main lights coming on automatically when light diminishes. Automatically main beam dipping saves driver distraction
On long journeys cruise control saves £'s on fuel economy, my daughters car automatically both slows down when cars in front slow and automatically accelerate back up to the set speed when the path ahead speeds up
Auditable warnings when you get too close to the car in front and ultimately braking if necessary are good safety features as is lane changing with out indicating.
ABS what a great asset as is traction control (neither for speeding) just allowing us to maintain control
Seat Belts air bags the list goes on.
Eastsidepilot
Western Thunderer
With more and more so called progress with technology, AI and all that s**t, getting food delivered to your sofa, in fact getting everything delivered, fridges that tell you you've run out of your favourite snack, robot mowers, hoovers, maybe a robot servant, remote everything...and don't mention self driving vehicles ! human beings brains will die, we will just become blobs of flesh stuck to a sofa in front of a screen and key board, you can see the start of the decline already with the increase in youngsters suffering from anxiety because they find it difficult to cope with the world as it is unless it's on their bloody phone.
If no one learns to think for themselves then there is no hope ! ......right, now I've got to go and round the horse up across the field, hitch him up to the cart so I can go into the timer yard to pick up some fence posts...bloody 'ell I had to think about that !
If no one learns to think for themselves then there is no hope ! ......right, now I've got to go and round the horse up across the field, hitch him up to the cart so I can go into the timer yard to pick up some fence posts
...bloody 'ell I had to think about that !
Osgood
Western Thunderer
Cruise control in the form of maintaining a certain speed I consider to be potentially dangerous for a variety of reasons.
Far better to use a speed limiter that allows you to drive as normal but not exceed a set limit.
It does the same thing in terms of keeping to a set speed economically, but gives you full control of the vehicle at all times and ensures you are ready for whatever the driving adventure throws at you.
Far better to use a speed limiter that allows you to drive as normal but not exceed a set limit.
It does the same thing in terms of keeping to a set speed economically, but gives you full control of the vehicle at all times and ensures you are ready for whatever the driving adventure throws at you.
Eastsidepilot
Western Thunderer
I think it's around the other way sometimes, Brian. The driving of shall we say a lot of more recent drivers is not up to standard, driving too fast etc.
Making us look dated ! ...but we know better mate
oldravendale
Western Thunderer
That rather depends how it's used, Tony. I object to adaptive cruise control because the gap it leaves to the car in front is so great that traffic quite reasonably thinks it can overtake and come back in to the slower lane - quite legitimately - but the adaptive cruise control immediately slams the anchors on to maintain the distance it thinks is correct so the vehicle behind has to slam their anchors on too. If the older version of cruise control is used sensibly one is concentrating on the road and traffic conditions and planning one's next action and if a clearly faster car overtakes and pulls in front there is no need to brake as he'll be away and gone.
I've had cruise control on all my cars for many years and wouldn't be without it. (I also agree about ABS and traction control as good things to have).
However, Col has it right. We now have a society which believes everything should be done for them whilst having no input or control of their own. I'm aware that's a sweeping generalisation and doesn't apply here or why would we be having this debate?
Brian
alastairq
Western Thunderer
Absolutely!
Osgood
Western Thunderer
daifly
Western Thunderer
Brian
With respect, that is obviously your experience of what sounds like a poor implementation of the technology.
I’ve read the comments of many above and have got all (and much more of) the technology on my car. They are all customisable to give a revised power-on default. If other people’s cars don’t allow that, they’ve probably bought the wrong car.
Dave
alastairq
Western Thunderer
In my, once professional, view....today's new drivers are far more competent when they have passed the test than those of 50 year-plus ago 'when I passed my first test].I think it's around the other way sometimes, Brian. The driving of shall we say a lot of more recent drivers is not up to standard, driving too fast etc.
Making us look dated ! ...but we know better mate
Driving instructors are far & away better qualified to teach, and the syllabus for the driving test is far more attuned to today's traffic environment than that of 50-odd years ago.
Some I see, demand a more rigorous initial driving test.
Well, in practice [I am, currently, now, 8 years out of date, as I'm a pensioneer!] the only real way of making a test more rigorous is to make it a darned sight longer. Say, at least 2 1/2 hours including manoeuvers?
That way the candidate has more time to eventually 'hang' themselves through accumulation of persistent driving faults.
The major issue with making tests longer, is, one of a logistical nature.
Currently there is a shortage of qualified Examiners.
There is a shortage of time in any one day to accommodate longer tests....
When I worked, [for the MoD, training the military of all types and flavours]..the average military person had an advantage, driving-wise, over their civilian counterparts. In that, once they passed their relevant tests [almost always up to C+E...something which was, at the time, bolted onto every military individual's' basic training, so that every person would be qualified to drive up to at least C+E...}.....they then went on to my particular barra, military driver training squadron.....[ which I loved doing, right up my street, playing with large green/brown things...]....where they not only were taught how to use various vehicles [as their bosses demanded , and paid for]...which involved a fair bit of driving [on & off road,day & night]...they were constantly accompanied by highly qualified driver instructors.....[ a reason for spending so much time on 'licence acquisition'....so termed for legal reasons..in that nobody, but nobody, can be ''taught to drive''.....ask anybody in the teaching profession why that is so?] who would assess, and where necessary, coach drivers to improve on what they had achieved when passing their tests. {They also had to conform to the military regulations in order to pass their courses as well]..
This would be ongoing for many, over all the vehicles they had to attend courses on.
However, even though even 18 year olds would start their driving lives [regardless of the actual jobs]....with a distinct advantage.....even if only a small proportion of their coaching actually stuck with them...compared to a young civilian , who may undergo a driver training course, undertake and pass a test..they then have no compulsion[other than sheer desire?] to undergo further, perhaps what one might call, ''advanced'' driver coaching....
I felt there was a mistake not making even the old ''Pass-Plus'' additional driver training at cat B level [car]...mandatory for all before license was issued.
I used to prove this to myself...by often asking the more experienced students in whatever cab I was using, the difference, to them, between a motorway and a dual carriageway?
[Especially important to be aware of, when driving into, for example, Hull along the M62, where it suddenly changes to the A63 dual carriageway?}
Most of the students would not appreciate, even after having a driving licence for a number of years.....how the difference between the two, apparently indistinguishable, roads...was in fact, chalk, and cheese!
Not appreciating the differences has often led to rises in the numbers of incidents....
Also worth asking, what, in the UK, is a motorway?
I used to get all sorts of waffle for replies..often around the 'numbers of lanes', etc....I'd perhaps try to gee them along by asking if one found roundabouts on motorways? [Which one, indeed, does find] Easy to tie even apparently skilled drivers in knots.....
All really about how a lack of constant remedial or refresher training leads to assumptions based on half the story...
I've sacked all my vocational licence categories...to remove temptation, and given the costs of the medicals each year now......
I have around another 18 months to find the hundred or so quid for the medicals, and re-acquire those categories..Otherwise I'd have to fork out for the hire of a waggin & test...
I don't think I'll bother....I never did like those bouncy castle driver's seats in modern waggins, either...
Or power steering.
However, before I ceased the working life, several of my colleagues [doing licence acquisition, as it was a cosy warm job, unless on C+E, ] were over 75 years old....A nicer , better paid bit of income compared to collecting trolleys in Tesco!