SimonT
Western Thunderer
Graham,
we know that the suburban diagrams are C66 and D117. The story of the red/carmine would be interesting to know from John. Serial coach building? Arghhh...........
JB,
thank you. The adjusted photo brings some interesting topics into play. The Railmatch crimson isn't the correct colour, even with the yellow added; this is despite the all crimson coaches matching the blood and custard coaches. Secondly we can now see the loads of pit props in the 16 tonners in the yard. Some more loads to make?
Simon
we know that the suburban diagrams are C66 and D117. The story of the red/carmine would be interesting to know from John. Serial coach building? Arghhh...........
JB,
thank you. The adjusted photo brings some interesting topics into play. The Railmatch crimson isn't the correct colour, even with the yellow added; this is despite the all crimson coaches matching the blood and custard coaches. Secondly we can now see the loads of pit props in the 16 tonners in the yard. Some more loads to make?
Simon
Heather Kay
Western Thunderer
It's a photo full of promise! Graham and I shared some thoughts via telephone yesterday.
For example, is that really three ex-LMS coaches still in mostly LMS livery? The photo seems to date from some time before the later BR maroon livery was mandated, so such a survival would be interesting for anyone contemplate the early 1950s as a period to model.
For example, is that really three ex-LMS coaches still in mostly LMS livery? The photo seems to date from some time before the later BR maroon livery was mandated, so such a survival would be interesting for anyone contemplate the early 1950s as a period to model.
7mmMick
Western Thunderer
Graham,
we know that the suburban diagrams are C66 and D117. The story of the red/carmine would be interesting to know from John. Serial coach building? Arghhh...........
JB,
thank you. The adjusted photo brings some interesting topics into play. The Railmatch crimson isn't the correct colour, even with the yellow added; this is despite the all crimson coaches matching the blood and custard coaches. Secondly we can now see the loads of pit props in the 16 tonners in the yard. Some more loads to make?
Simon
Pit Props I hear you say ?? I'm all ears, pit props loaded into mineral wagons will play a big part in my layout plans. It will be interesting to see how you model these Simon, I'm guessing the best solution would be to chop up real twigs but what species of tree would be best and look the most correct? I think Martyn Welch did something on loads in some early MRJ's? I shall have a route round,
ATB Mick
Dog Star
Western Thunderer
And if not as Heather describes, what drew our attention to those coaches was the manner in which the lining screamed for attention.
Other nuggets worth considering?
a) the sidings on the RHS seem to show service trains ready for use, that is stock plus engine - if not then why is there an engine between coach sets? Heather opined that these might be for excursions.
b) the range of "red" colours on the coaches. Heather and I got to at least five red tones.
c) just how many engines were visible... is it four or five?
d) the "cleanliness" of some of the mineral wagons... are there two or three in as built condition in the farthest siding?
richard carr
Western Thunderer
Simon
I wouldn't worry about the colour of the coaches, blood and custard faded dreadfully and on top of that your photograph will have changed colour significantly since it was taken and even in the first instance was probably only showing a passing resemblance to the true colour on the day.
So long you are happy with the red its OK.
Richard
I wouldn't worry about the colour of the coaches, blood and custard faded dreadfully and on top of that your photograph will have changed colour significantly since it was taken and even in the first instance was probably only showing a passing resemblance to the true colour on the day.
So long you are happy with the red its OK.
Richard
SimonT
Western Thunderer
The LMS coaches caught our eyes when we were working out what the suburbans were. They have to be excursion stock, but why stabled at Aber? The range of faded reds also caught out attention and I more than happy at mixing my own tones; I am more interested in the history as I have never seen an account of coaches being painted all over crimson by BR.
The pit props will be an area of experimentation which will probably start with finding the MRJ article. The loads will have to be able to be removed like the coal loads (we don't bother at exhibitions). Photos to follow, obviously
.
The mix of wagons shows some variety. Plenty of unfitted 16T in various states of wear; no fitted at this stage. I think there is one slope sided 16T and what looks to be a 'traditional' wagon behind the 57XX. The loco sat in the line of coaches is sporting a target disk over the RH buffer; I am not sure what type it is but lean towards a 56X. I think that there are 5 engines in sight. In the far distance there is a banker sat opposite Aberbeeg South box. It will be a pannier of some sort, possibly a 94XX by this time.
Now, off to Reading. Yeeeee HAHHHHHH!
Simon
The pit props will be an area of experimentation which will probably start with finding the MRJ article. The loads will have to be able to be removed like the coal loads (we don't bother at exhibitions). Photos to follow, obviously
.The mix of wagons shows some variety. Plenty of unfitted 16T in various states of wear; no fitted at this stage. I think there is one slope sided 16T and what looks to be a 'traditional' wagon behind the 57XX. The loco sat in the line of coaches is sporting a target disk over the RH buffer; I am not sure what type it is but lean towards a 56X. I think that there are 5 engines in sight. In the far distance there is a banker sat opposite Aberbeeg South box. It will be a pannier of some sort, possibly a 94XX by this time.
Now, off to Reading. Yeeeee HAHHHHHH!
Simon
adrian
Flying Squad
I'd suggest having a look at what Jerry (@queensquare ) has done on Highbury Colliery - the wood loads look very effective.
queensquare
Western Thunderer
I use Field Maple which is a native and very common in hedgerows. I'm sure there are other species that are suitable but what you are after is something that has a smooth bark as any fissures do not scale up.
As for making wagon loads of pit props, I've made a few thinking they would be quick little jobs but it's amazing just how many will fit in a wagon and just how long it takes to make the load, particularly if you want it removable as I did.
Jerry
oldravendale
Western Thunderer
Hi Simon.
Suburban stock was definitely painted overall red in early BR days. I have photos if it'll help but will need to look them out.
For certain, as an example, the coaching stock on the Isle of Wight was painted red in the '50s.
Brian
Heather Kay
Western Thunderer
The official livery colours were overal crimson (no lining, black ends) for non-corridor and parcels stock, carmine and cream (lined gold and black, with black ends) for corridor stock.
SimonT
Western Thunderer
Brian, Heather,
thank you. I am going to assume that a corridor suburban qualifies to be crimson as;
a. It is already crimson.
b. I don't want to try repainting it into custard and risk getting a poor finish/paint on the windows. Having achieved a positive result from my fight with the airbrush I would rather keep the positive vibe; I might then achieve a positive on the next coach.
All this is making me think that I really could do with the correct coaches. I have artwork for both an etch and for printing individual compartments to assemble Ian Kirk stylee into a coach. Now if I made the prints so that they went onto a JLTRT chassis. Hmmm.
Simon
thank you. I am going to assume that a corridor suburban qualifies to be crimson as;
a. It is already crimson.
b. I don't want to try repainting it into custard and risk getting a poor finish/paint on the windows. Having achieved a positive result from my fight with the airbrush I would rather keep the positive vibe; I might then achieve a positive on the next coach.
All this is making me think that I really could do with the correct coaches. I have artwork for both an etch and for printing individual compartments to assemble Ian Kirk stylee into a coach. Now if I made the prints so that they went onto a JLTRT chassis. Hmmm.
Simon
westernfan
Western Thunderer
The image of the coaches at Aberbeeg is from the book "The heyday of steam in South Wales" by Derek Huntress the photo was taken on the 6th August 1958 .As mentioned some of the rakes could be for summer excursions ,also the older stock could have been used for miners trains .
Heather Kay
Western Thunderer
Ah, in that case the what I thought may be LMS livery might actually be the BR maroon.
oldravendale
Western Thunderer
Here, for Simon, are photos of suburban coaching stock (and an auto coach) in BR red. I'm pretty certain that corridor stock never received this livery, being blood and custard at this time.
I'm sure I can find more but these came easily to the top of the pile. Loco 1436 was withdrawn October 1958 so the photo was taken in May the same year. The details of the first photo refer to it being below the caption. It is clearly above.
I can't remember which publications these come from, so normal copyright caveats apply, please, and I am attaching these as relevant to a piece of research.
Brian
I'm sure I can find more but these came easily to the top of the pile. Loco 1436 was withdrawn October 1958 so the photo was taken in May the same year. The details of the first photo refer to it being below the caption. It is clearly above.
I can't remember which publications these come from, so normal copyright caveats apply, please, and I am attaching these as relevant to a piece of research.
Brian
Dog Star
Western Thunderer
After checking with Simon, I sent a hi-res copy of the Aberbeeg carriage photo to John Lewis (HMRS GWR Carriage Steward) for comment, his reply is quoted below:-
> 1/ date;
I had guessed 1958 because of the carriage liveries.
> 2/ carriage diagrams on view;
The suburban non-corridor ones of the two trains to the right are Collett, ones, most are apparently the earlier "high waist" style, but the rightmost one in crimson appears to have the later deeper windows. This one may be to Diagram C76 - see RC2 Pg 223, bottom picture. Its accompanying brake third may be of D117 - see RCA1 Fig 248. The 4 coach
train after it appears to have two brake thirds probably of D117, a third, behind the pannier's exhaust, which is probably a C66. Most interestingly is the following coach which appears to be a Diagram A15 all-first (see RCA1 Figs 22 and 23).
The train of main line stock is interesting because it is a mixture of LMS, BR and GWR coaches. The coach to the left of the 45xx tank could be to a period III third to LMS D1899, while the coach to its left might be a period II third to D1782 or an uncalssified open to LMS D1706. The one to its right, just visible, may be an earlier Period III coach with smaller sliding ventilators. I think the BR coaches are two thirds (TK) and a composite. Then comes a GWR Collett high waist period coach and another.
> 3/ comments on liveries;
The liveries of the coaches are what one would expect in 1958 - some coaches in "Maroon" which looks very dark here and most in either crimson or crimson & cream. Note the variations in the shades of the plain crimson coaches.
> 4/ thoughts on service trains held in sidings (pointers to service timetables / carriage working notices).
I think the eight coach non-gangwayed train on the left may be the workmen's train for the ROF Glascoed which I understand was parked at Aberbeeg when not in use.
The 8th August 1958 was a Friday. The main line train might be for a west to north train, or for an excursion - possibly the next day. I do not know why the have two suburban trains parked together - surely the large 2-6-2T was not kept there all day?
Curiously there are some more photos of Aberbeg on e-bay, including one that may have been taken here a few minutes earlier. See:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ABERBEEG-...ollectables_Railwayana_RL&hash=item2c9206cf3c
or Google "Aberbeeg station" which is how I found them.
Note the pit props in the furthest line of mineral wagons and the LMS passenger brake van in one of the sidings (identifiable by its side lookout).
In John's reply, the mnemonics RC2 and RCA1 refer to GW Coaches Vol2 and GW Coaches Appendix Vol1, by J Russell and published by OPC.
regards, Graham
> 1/ date;
I had guessed 1958 because of the carriage liveries.
> 2/ carriage diagrams on view;
The suburban non-corridor ones of the two trains to the right are Collett, ones, most are apparently the earlier "high waist" style, but the rightmost one in crimson appears to have the later deeper windows. This one may be to Diagram C76 - see RC2 Pg 223, bottom picture. Its accompanying brake third may be of D117 - see RCA1 Fig 248. The 4 coach
train after it appears to have two brake thirds probably of D117, a third, behind the pannier's exhaust, which is probably a C66. Most interestingly is the following coach which appears to be a Diagram A15 all-first (see RCA1 Figs 22 and 23).
The train of main line stock is interesting because it is a mixture of LMS, BR and GWR coaches. The coach to the left of the 45xx tank could be to a period III third to LMS D1899, while the coach to its left might be a period II third to D1782 or an uncalssified open to LMS D1706. The one to its right, just visible, may be an earlier Period III coach with smaller sliding ventilators. I think the BR coaches are two thirds (TK) and a composite. Then comes a GWR Collett high waist period coach and another.
> 3/ comments on liveries;
The liveries of the coaches are what one would expect in 1958 - some coaches in "Maroon" which looks very dark here and most in either crimson or crimson & cream. Note the variations in the shades of the plain crimson coaches.
> 4/ thoughts on service trains held in sidings (pointers to service timetables / carriage working notices).
I think the eight coach non-gangwayed train on the left may be the workmen's train for the ROF Glascoed which I understand was parked at Aberbeeg when not in use.
The 8th August 1958 was a Friday. The main line train might be for a west to north train, or for an excursion - possibly the next day. I do not know why the have two suburban trains parked together - surely the large 2-6-2T was not kept there all day?
Curiously there are some more photos of Aberbeg on e-bay, including one that may have been taken here a few minutes earlier. See:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ABERBEEG-...ollectables_Railwayana_RL&hash=item2c9206cf3c
or Google "Aberbeeg station" which is how I found them.
Note the pit props in the furthest line of mineral wagons and the LMS passenger brake van in one of the sidings (identifiable by its side lookout).
In John's reply, the mnemonics RC2 and RCA1 refer to GW Coaches Vol2 and GW Coaches Appendix Vol1, by J Russell and published by OPC.
regards, Graham
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SimonT
Western Thunderer
This is an interesting result and confirms our thoughts and also adds some more info. The D117 and C66 have already been identified as had the A15. We had a rough idea about the ex LMS stock but not the diagrams. Our conclusion was for the LMS stock to be an excursion. I know of excursions being run from Aber to Barrry Island, but doubt the use of this stock for that task. We had late fifties as a date, but 8th August is astonishing. I have a memory of other photos of trains being stabled with their locos, but it seems a strange practice with the shed available a quarter of a mile down the hill.
The flea-bay photos are all on the CD from Fred except the last one, which is a new one. I suspect it was taken around the corner north of Aberbeeg North box as the viaduct parapet can be seen in the background. The LMS brake is already running on the layout; it is finished a vacuum fitted so I might have to consider refinishing it. I think that by the 1963 date for running steam and diesel on the layout that the survivors were all fitted. Any thoughts?
Graham, thank you for contacting John; please convey my appreciation to him. Thank you all for your consideration of the photo. I'll see what else I can find!
Simon
The flea-bay photos are all on the CD from Fred except the last one, which is a new one. I suspect it was taken around the corner north of Aberbeeg North box as the viaduct parapet can be seen in the background. The LMS brake is already running on the layout; it is finished a vacuum fitted so I might have to consider refinishing it. I think that by the 1963 date for running steam and diesel on the layout that the survivors were all fitted. Any thoughts?
Graham, thank you for contacting John; please convey my appreciation to him. Thank you all for your consideration of the photo. I'll see what else I can find!
Simon
Wagonman
Western Thunderer
Back in 1962-3 I lived a few miles west of Barry and would sometimes go there for a visit. I saw a few excursions from the valleys (the only steam trains running then) and they were invariably made up of non-corridor stock – presumably made redundant by the dieselisation of the regular trains. Rumour had it that exLNWR 0-8-0s sometimes worked these trains but I only ever saw large prairies. The coaches were by then painted in maroon of course.
I remember particularly one returning excursion which got stuck on the tight right hand curve into Barry station, which is also on a rising gradient. I think it had to set back and take a run at it! That may also have been the same summer that the Barry Island funfair blew down in a gale...
Richard
7mmMick
Western Thunderer
This year I'm working right up to Christmas and thought I would use the 4am finish this morning to do the Tesco big shop and to my surprise I saw this and it sneaked its way Into the trolley. Any way once I'd remortgaged the house to fill the trolley I had a quick brew and look through before bed, I immediately thought of Simon as there's a picture of some interesting shunting moves at Aberbeeg in 1962. If goods traffic interests you its a good buy
