4mm An EM Workbench: Mineral allsorts
- Thread starter AJC
- Start date
Clayliner Tank (Tri-ang and Bachmann)
AJC
Western Thunderer
It's a nice shot isn't it? I can't tell whether the second loco is under power in the picture. Anyhow, I've been doing other things too and here is my clayliner tank which is now complete below the solebar (the label clip needs finishing) which is a relief because all that remains to be done can be seen relatively easily in photographs or, failing that guestimated from known details of similar wagon types.
The air pipes are spares for a Hornby class 50; time will tell how long they last...
Adam
The air pipes are spares for a Hornby class 50; time will tell how long they last...
Adam
7mmMick
Western Thunderer
Hi Adam,
Quietly enjoying the thread as always
just wait until the coupling hook catches the pipe and it comes pinging off (that's if you use three links ?) I was forever dragging stock off the track that way, I ended up only using brass piping to solve that problem,
ATB Mick
Quietly enjoying the thread as always
just wait until the coupling hook catches the pipe and it comes pinging off (that's if you use three links ?) I was forever dragging stock off the track that way, I ended up only using brass piping to solve that problem,ATB Mick
AJC
Western Thunderer
Ha! They seem reasonably securely anchored so I'm not too concerned about that in the short term. How much this particular wagon gets used makes this a moot point; it's the only piece of air braked stock I have so largely this is a project which I'm doing for the sheer fun of it.
Adam
Adam
Minfit
AJC
Western Thunderer
Thanks for that Pugs - having scribed some panel lines onto the tank and tidied those up, I've given the wagon a flash of primer and will put it to one side until the mesh I've ordered for the catwalks turns up; there is more detailing to do on the hatch and the valve that sits on top of the tank alongside it. For the moment, however, I've decided to make a start (and the rate it's going, possibly a finish) on the Rumney Models chassis for my Minfit. First impressions are very favourable, the instructions (downloadable from the website - needless to say, I've deviated from the order of action suggested) are good and the parts fit well. They'll be more flannel later, but here are some photos:
The brakeshoes, which are quite ingenious, have gone on now in order that I can set up the springing - not that springing a 9' wheelbase wagon in 4mm makes a lot of difference - and I can report that there is enough clearance that I can proceed though I've only progressessed as far as the axle keeps since I took these pictures which represent perhaps an hour and a bit of effort; the next one will be quicker.
Adam
The brakeshoes, which are quite ingenious, have gone on now in order that I can set up the springing - not that springing a 9' wheelbase wagon in 4mm makes a lot of difference - and I can report that there is enough clearance that I can proceed though I've only progressessed as far as the axle keeps since I took these pictures which represent perhaps an hour and a bit of effort; the next one will be quicker.
Adam
iak63
Western Thunderer
Well this looks promising. 
I have a box full waiting for a talking to with a soldering iron.
I also believe Justin Newitt who is Rumney Models has update the instructions for these chassis as well as adding the new instructions for the latest ones he's producing.
The springing may be superfluous to some 4mm types at these short wheelbases but they look the business like one indicates Adam.
Bring on more flannel asap
I have a box full waiting for a talking to with a soldering iron.
I also believe Justin Newitt who is Rumney Models has update the instructions for these chassis as well as adding the new instructions for the latest ones he's producing.
The springing may be superfluous to some 4mm types at these short wheelbases but they look the business like one indicates Adam.
Bring on more flannel asap
AJC
Western Thunderer
Flannel? Well here goes. Another hour or so and the most apparently complicated bits (which on a scratchbuild - especially on a wagon this short - I would almost certainly never bother with), the various linkages which, on the real thing, actuate the brakeshoes. Justin has made these as a single piece, but they are modelled in a suitably fiddly level of detail with fold-up overlays which require lots of little bits of brass to represent boltheads and the pivots used to mount the thing to the floor.
For anyone who wants to try this at home, the trick is to fold the overlays into a U shape, tack solder them to the main linkage etch and then to open out the holes to suit 0.45mm wire. You can then put in the cosmetic bits of wire before adding the pins. It's a moot point as to whether these boltheads will be visible and they could easily be represented by a half-etched, embossed, rivet on the overlay. The presence of the holes mean that you really have to add the pins and this is a fiddle.
The instructions rather overcomplicate this; there's a nice little diagram which shows what bits go where and another which shows which holes need to have a bit of excess on each side and a photo. This does the job rather more effectively than the page of text that accompanies them.
Brake yokes next. I'm looking forward to these; the first time (in 4mm) that I've encountered such things properly modelled to represent the fabricated originals.
Adam
For anyone who wants to try this at home, the trick is to fold the overlays into a U shape, tack solder them to the main linkage etch and then to open out the holes to suit 0.45mm wire. You can then put in the cosmetic bits of wire before adding the pins. It's a moot point as to whether these boltheads will be visible and they could easily be represented by a half-etched, embossed, rivet on the overlay. The presence of the holes mean that you really have to add the pins and this is a fiddle.
The instructions rather overcomplicate this; there's a nice little diagram which shows what bits go where and another which shows which holes need to have a bit of excess on each side and a photo. This does the job rather more effectively than the page of text that accompanies them.
Brake yokes next. I'm looking forward to these; the first time (in 4mm) that I've encountered such things properly modelled to represent the fabricated originals.
Adam
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Minfit
AJC
Western Thunderer
So here's the result of half an hour's noodling. Spring stops have been added as have the apparently fiddly brake yokes. These are modelled like the real thing, fabricated from rod and strip but because they're assembled in situ with four fixed points (the two brakeshoes, and each end of the transverse brake linkage), it's simply a case of bending the strip into a 'v' - there's a small notch in the centre which clips over the link - and threading the wire through the relevant holes. A drop of flux, four touches of the iron, clip the excess wire and, er, it's done. Good design, well executed.
There's not all that much left on the fret now...
Adam
There's not all that much left on the fret now...
Adam
AJC
Western Thunderer
Thanks - I reckon that you're right. Nicely designed, well-executed with parts that fit and excellent response to feedback. I sent Justin an email suggesting that adding page numbers to the instructions might be an idea (they're 40 odd pages long, for a wagon chassis! 40 pages!), and next morning, there they were. Much easier. I have one of his bogie strip coils to do after I've finished this which looks just as good.
Adam
Adam
Minfit
AJC
Western Thunderer
A bit of a leap and some rather dodgy pictures (I shall have another go in the morning), but I've galloped ahead and all soldering is now complete prior to the solid details - vacuum cylinders, label clips (included, but I shall glue these), axleboxes and springs - being added. The safety loops are formed around a shape that is part of the etch fret which is quite neat; they could, perhaps, be more securely located, but I think that's being picky.
The underside view shows off the rather indifferent quality of my soldering! The coupling hooks are Masokits - I have yet to assemble the screw couplings that will hang from them, while the vac' pipes are from copper electrical wire wound round with some very fine stuff from a defunct pair of headphones - since the dummy is modelled in proper detail I left it hanging. A dose of metal black next, I think...
Adam
The underside view shows off the rather indifferent quality of my soldering! The coupling hooks are Masokits - I have yet to assemble the screw couplings that will hang from them, while the vac' pipes are from copper electrical wire wound round with some very fine stuff from a defunct pair of headphones - since the dummy is modelled in proper detail I left it hanging. A dose of metal black next, I think...
Adam
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N
notascoobie
Guest
Hi Adam,
The underframe looks a nice kit to build and you have done that neatly. A 40 wagon train might get a little pricey!
Regards,
Vernon
The underframe looks a nice kit to build and you have done that neatly. A 40 wagon train might get a little pricey!
Regards,
Vernon
AJC
Western Thunderer
Hi Richard
It is. So far as 7mm is concerened, you can ask - Justin is quite approachable - though his interest in in P4 and these chassis have come out of his own needs and wants. The amount of extra detail practical in 7mm is quite substantial; having seen pictures of the etches for DJP's 16 tonners they are significantly more involved as you might expect. I must say that I wouldn't be averse to having a go at one of his 7mm minfits but I've rather too many 4mm projects to keep me going and absolutely no desire to change scales. So far as I am concerned, this range of kits makes a tricky job very much easier and that's the point.
Mercifully, Vernon, fitted minerals weren't all that common! The 40 wagon train might only have two or three in it. Dad and I, between us, actually have a rake of empties about that length quite a bit of it re-worked and weathered Bachmanns; much cheaper.
Adam
It is. So far as 7mm is concerened, you can ask - Justin is quite approachable - though his interest in in P4 and these chassis have come out of his own needs and wants. The amount of extra detail practical in 7mm is quite substantial; having seen pictures of the etches for DJP's 16 tonners they are significantly more involved as you might expect. I must say that I wouldn't be averse to having a go at one of his 7mm minfits but I've rather too many 4mm projects to keep me going and absolutely no desire to change scales. So far as I am concerned, this range of kits makes a tricky job very much easier and that's the point.
Mercifully, Vernon, fitted minerals weren't all that common! The 40 wagon train might only have two or three in it. Dad and I, between us, actually have a rake of empties about that length quite a bit of it re-worked and weathered Bachmanns; much cheaper.
Adam
Coil Wagons
AJC
Western Thunderer
While I was in the mood for soldering, I embarked upon another Rumney Models production, a BR 1/403 Strip Coil:
http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brstripcoil/h3d61539a#h294aa921
As was typical of the early BR coil fleet, only a small number were built - in the case of this particular diagram, only 15 - though there were another 35 broadly similar vehicles (dia. 1/401) but these had different bogies and were built unfitted and later converted to vacuum brake (as dia. 1/407). The kit will do both the fitted versions but not the unfitted (the reasons are in Justin's instructions if you're interested), but only the BR plate bogies for the 1/403 are available at the moment; these can be had from Cambrian. Because I was enjoying myself, I've got to the point of assembling almost all the etched bits before taking any pictures but, in all honesty, this is a reasonably straightforward kit of a relatively simple prototype. You get two sheets of etchBeing riveted there are quite a few of the things to emboss, but roaundabout half are represented by the etching process which means overlays and all the associated fun and games they represent; RSU owners would doubtless snigger.
Note that the bogie mounting haven't yet gone in because I haven't got my hands on a set of bogies. Other things on the to do list are acquiring and fitting the castings and vacuum pipes. I have a etch worth of Masokits screw couplings to do as well. Really the dummies supplied for the vacuum pipes are too short but since they're properly modelled I shall lose no sleep over this! The distinctive interior, shown in this Paul Bartlett picture - http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brstripcoil/h3d61539a#h2b070267 (note the colouring, muck and scale off the coils) - will be assembled on a false floor from plastic sheet and section. The etches give you the strip with the holes.
Adam
http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brstripcoil/h3d61539a#h294aa921
As was typical of the early BR coil fleet, only a small number were built - in the case of this particular diagram, only 15 - though there were another 35 broadly similar vehicles (dia. 1/401) but these had different bogies and were built unfitted and later converted to vacuum brake (as dia. 1/407). The kit will do both the fitted versions but not the unfitted (the reasons are in Justin's instructions if you're interested), but only the BR plate bogies for the 1/403 are available at the moment; these can be had from Cambrian. Because I was enjoying myself, I've got to the point of assembling almost all the etched bits before taking any pictures but, in all honesty, this is a reasonably straightforward kit of a relatively simple prototype. You get two sheets of etchBeing riveted there are quite a few of the things to emboss, but roaundabout half are represented by the etching process which means overlays and all the associated fun and games they represent; RSU owners would doubtless snigger.
Note that the bogie mounting haven't yet gone in because I haven't got my hands on a set of bogies. Other things on the to do list are acquiring and fitting the castings and vacuum pipes. I have a etch worth of Masokits screw couplings to do as well. Really the dummies supplied for the vacuum pipes are too short but since they're properly modelled I shall lose no sleep over this! The distinctive interior, shown in this Paul Bartlett picture - http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brstripcoil/h3d61539a#h2b070267 (note the colouring, muck and scale off the coils) - will be assembled on a false floor from plastic sheet and section. The etches give you the strip with the holes.
Adam
AJC
Western Thunderer
It is a good kit, though not shown to its best here owing to some indifferent soldering. That is entirely my own fault: I persevered with a bit that was long past its best. That said, the overlays would benefit from done thing a bit beefier than my 25W Antex. The basic body folds up from the floor once outer overlays are added and otherwise, it's all slot and tab.
More generally, it will depend which bogies are used as to how much work is involved. The first batch had the more interesting GW pattern bogies which, if I wanted to do them, would have to be produced from scratchbuilt cosmetic side frames on an etched functional frame - Masokits does something suitable. The BR plate type can be had as a one-piece moulding from Cambrian:
http://www.cambrianmodels.co.uk/4mmbogies.html
These come with the mounting bolt. The brake pull rods pass above the axles once the wagon is the right way up so can simply be soldered to the mounting plates.
Adam
More generally, it will depend which bogies are used as to how much work is involved. The first batch had the more interesting GW pattern bogies which, if I wanted to do them, would have to be produced from scratchbuilt cosmetic side frames on an etched functional frame - Masokits does something suitable. The BR plate type can be had as a one-piece moulding from Cambrian:
http://www.cambrianmodels.co.uk/4mmbogies.html
These come with the mounting bolt. The brake pull rods pass above the axles once the wagon is the right way up so can simply be soldered to the mounting plates.
Adam
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Coil Wagons
AJC
Western Thunderer
After what was a longer pause than I thought it might be, the Strip Coil now sits on its wheels. The bogies are a set of BR plate types derived from GWR practise from Cambrian. Now these aren't blessed with absolute dimensional fidelity but this is only really obvious when shown next to a picture of the real thing so I am not too concerned about this. From a practical perspective, they come as a one-piece moulding with seperate axleboxes which is a great improvement on the last set of Cambrian plate bogies I built the better part of twenty years ago. I had to countersink the bearing holes a smidge to get the wheels to run properly but that is no big deal.
The designer's preference is for compensated or sprung bogies so he only provides a location hole for a bolt. Cambrian provide a suitable bolt (c.3mm diameter) with the bogies and a moulded mounting plate; I used both. I opened the etched plate out sufficient to clear the bolt and soldered that in, cut the collar out of the moulded mounting plate and epoxied that around the bolt. There isn't much thread protruding above that but there's enough - a bit of thread lock after painting will fix it.
The bogies need packing to the correct height and the easiest way to do that is a bit of 60 thou' plastic. Using an old dodge, I've placed packing as shown in the picture below to keep the body more or less level at one end and to allow rocking at the other; simple three point compensation really.
Brake cylinders and buffers still to do...
Adam
The designer's preference is for compensated or sprung bogies so he only provides a location hole for a bolt. Cambrian provide a suitable bolt (c.3mm diameter) with the bogies and a moulded mounting plate; I used both. I opened the etched plate out sufficient to clear the bolt and soldered that in, cut the collar out of the moulded mounting plate and epoxied that around the bolt. There isn't much thread protruding above that but there's enough - a bit of thread lock after painting will fix it.
The bogies need packing to the correct height and the easiest way to do that is a bit of 60 thou' plastic. Using an old dodge, I've placed packing as shown in the picture below to keep the body more or less level at one end and to allow rocking at the other; simple three point compensation really.
Brake cylinders and buffers still to do...
Adam
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