7mm 7mm track options

[AndyB]

COT = chairs on timbers
This relates to 3D printing of sleepers and chairs from a single data file, generally on a filament type of 3D printer.
This is a development from 'plug track', whereby the chairs (with either fixed keys or separate keys) are 3D printed (initially using a resin printer) - each chair having a 'plug' on its base that goes into a rectangular 'socket' in a sleeper (timber), these either being laser cut wood or 3D printed using a filament printer.

COT has become possible due to the latest developments in 'domestic' 3D filament printers being able to achieve a surface finish and dimensional consistency that is acceptable for this kind of application.

 

[Hayfield1]

I can't be the only one? who hasn't got the clue what is it?
forum search (Search results for query: cot track) didn't help much
can someone, please put me out of my misery

COT Track (Chairs on timbers) is a new development in Templot 3D printed track

In the past for most gauges the development of 3D printed trackwork was plug track, timbers and sleepers were either 3D filament printed or laser cut and chairs were resin printed

During an experiment it was found in 7mm scale (and above) chairs could be printed by using the filament process, whilst taking longer it is a far easier process and of course only involves buying 1 printer

Further experiments found that you could directly print the chairs on to the timbers or sleepers, one of the main benefits is you can print the track bases to match the height of RTR trackwork, the second benefit is the simplicity of the build, thirdly the cost which is a fraction of either RTR, kits or professionally built track. Last and not least is the actual detail, which is far and above what's available elsewhere



This is a 3D printed 7mm scale B7. In my opinion the design and level of detail is far ahead of any other method available. The base cost of materials depends on how much you pay rail and filament. Which would range from £8 to £12 + a bit for electricity.



But the real game changer is the simplicity of the build, the program can also produce very easy to use, reusable filing jigs, once the rails are formed the builder slides the rails in place, Common crossings are automatically formed as is the track gauging

The system tool wise needs nothing other than something to cut the rail, a file, a couple of needle files and a pair of plyers.

Templot is in most peoples eyes the leading trackwork design system, its a free software package. To design your turnout it takes a few clicks of a mouse to produce a turnout template (plan) track builders have been using these for years and are extremely adaptable. From the template you can easily make a printing file using a few simple processes, the file can be fed into a 3D printer. Once the printer starts there is no user input, you just wait for the machine to stop printing

The traditional method would involve the best part of a day to construct a turnout and involve making an intricate sub assembly/s as well as cutting timbers to shape and the use of various track gauges, much of the design work is the same, but the skill levels required are far higher

The printers them selves cost about the same price as a ready made hand built turnout or a couple of large radius Peco turnouts, the prints are both simple to assemble and use

In short COT track is a method of producing highly detailed turnouts, which are easy to make, at a very cost effective price (far cheaper than any other form of commercially made kits or ready built items (which would be less detailed) ) Not forgetting its just as easy to build in Scale 7 as 32mm gauge

At the moment its turnouts only (I have made a working diamond crossing but you need a higher level of Templot design skills), the system is in-between the experimental and developmental stages and like many things is being produced as a hobby project led by some very talented people

Standard Templot plug track is now in use by many modelers in various scales, COT track is an extension of plug track development

I personally lack modern technology skills, I am a track builder and have been assisted greatly by members of Templot Club forum in being able to make turnouts and crossings.

A much better understanding of plug track can be made by watching James Walters, Bexhill West YouTube videos on Templot Plug track, James has not yet made a COT track video, but the principal is much the same

Hope this goes some way to answer your question

 

[bambuko]

COT Track (Chairs on timbers) is a new development in Templot 3D printed track

Thank you for detailed explanation.
I can confirm that it now comes up on forum searches (Search results for query: cot track)
and now (that I know what this acronym stand for) I can exclude it from my considerations.

This is very good and informative thread - thank you

 

[Hayfield1]

Thank you for detailed explanation.
I can confirm that it now comes up on forum searches (Search results for query: cot track)
and now (that I know what this acronym stand for) I can exclude it from my considerations.

This is very good and informative thread - thank you

Link to the subject on Templot Club forum

FDM chairs in 0 gauge - COT track

@AndyB @Hayfield @James Walters Prompted by Andy's topic on RMweb, a test print of integral chairs and timbers on FDM (Neptune 4, standard 0.4mm nozzle). C&L code 131 rail. No resin was harmed in this process. :) The results are way beyond what I was expecting, and far superior to my...

85a.uk

May be of interest

For anyone involved in 7mm scale I would suggest, keep watching

John

 

[martin_wynne]

COT -- It's the Templot term for 3D printing integral Chairs On Timbers in a one-piece timbering base.

As opposed to PLUG track, where the chairs and timbering base are printed separately.

In the latest Templot update it is possible to combine the two methods, which makes it much easier to build complex formations. This is a test print showing that -- the rail is in chairs which have been plugged in with the rail in them, which means the rail didn't need to be slid in from the end:

Martin.

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

Does this method of sleeper and chair production allow development to incorporate 3rd rail and 3rd & 4th rail conductor rails? Assuming there is demand.

Or is that made more difficult due to the siting of the conductor rail pots around pointwork as they would be effectively non-standard due to the junction type and location. Added to which LT had 'slipper' blocks for the central conductor rail in order to lift the collector shoe above the running rails.

 

[Hayfield1]

This is the latest version of COT track for common crossings, where 6 chairs are treated as half chairs to aid the threading through the chairs of the wing rails



This is a photo where the Vee and wing rails have been slid in (but the wing rails still need to be put into their final position) prior to gluing the loose jaws in place. This adaption makes placement of the wing rails very much easier. The whole ethos of Plug and COT track is one that is easy to use

As a track builder this method allows me to

1 Produce a very much more detailed and accurate representation of a turnout
2 A very much easier build method when compared to traditional building methods
3 Accurate (reusable) filing jigs can be produced for both the Vee and switch rails, which makes the process of forming rails very much easier
4 Saves hours of building work, some of which would be quite exacting.

I think it is wrong concentrating on cost, for me its an ability in having a highly detailed item. You won't get that look out of a box, In addition it can be in a form (curved?) unique to yourself.

As for costs after the initial outlay, which can be recouped after 3 or 4 turnouts. Are in the main minimal

The alternative for those without printers is to find someone with a printer to print some for you, but do not expect it to be as cheap, as doing it yourself.

 

[Tim Humphreys ex Mudhen]

How long do the parts take to print?

Tim

 

[martin_wynne]

How long do the parts take to print?

Tim

Hi Tim,

It mostly depends on the thickness of the timbers. Which you can set to whatever you wish.

However, for a typical small turnout matching the rail top of Peco flexi-track, printing will take between 3 and 4 hours in total for both sections needed. Larger turnouts in 3 sections may need 5 or 6 hours for all three.

That's for best quality printing. You can shorten the print time if you set a lower print quality. Or you don't mind thinner timbers.

The time isn't usually a problem because the printer runs unattended. You set it running while you build a wagon kit or paint the stationmaster's hat.

cheers,

Martin.

 

[Hayfield1]

How long do the parts take to print?

Tim

Tim

Firstly I am glad a fellow Scale 7 member is interested, I am a member but model to 32mm gauge

The time depends on the size of the item being printed, The B7 COT track is made from 3 prints varying between 2 and 3 hours each with a Neptune 4 printer, from the little I understand its a trade off between speed and quality. The printer works in the background on its own and the amount of time I spend is about half an hour.

Simply you print the parts before you require them, a bit like ordering components prior to building an item

I have not tested a Scale 7 print yet as I have no scale 7 wheels, but I have no fears it will work to Scale 7 standards. Word of warning when building in the finer gauges is to gauge widen on tight bends, or keep above the minimum radii

 

[martin_wynne]

@Hayfield1

Hi John,

That should be Neptune 4.*

The Neptune 3 is Marlin based and much slower, the chairs will have significant stringing, and little strength. COT track not recommended on older Marlin-based printers. They are fine for PLUG track with resin chairs.

cheers,

Martin.

*and no doubt other Klipper-based fast printers, not tested by me.

 

[Hayfield1]

I do think at times we focus on the wrong things. Firstly with track most modelers are happy to compromise where trackwork is required.

In my opinion ready to run turnouts look wrong, most would reject any loco which would have as many visual compromises !! Why does no one speak up ?

I guess one of the reasons stopping people from building turnouts could be they are lacking the skills to scratch/kit build turnouts using commercial products, 7mm kits with preformed common crossings and switch blades starting from just under £120 life is much easier, but you will require both time to construct the kit and a series of gauges, even them some still struggle to complete the kits to a reasonable standard

To a certain degree COT track follows a well trodden principle first started perhaps with Peco's spike track of the 50's, certainly SMP's plastic turnout kits 60's/70's. Then far more recently British Finescale's excellent 3D printed ranges in the smaller scales.

Certainly COT track has taken on board the need for simplicity of build, once the rails have been formed, the builder threads the rails through the chairs, its that simple. Templot 3D has also made the formation of the vees and switch rails (very) much easier, with the ability to print easy to use filing jigs ***, These jigs can be reused several times.

But Templot Plug and COT track is so much more, rather than accept a pre-determined size/geometry the builder can tailor the turnout (and in the future) or crossing to the shape/size required

Surely for the above three reasons are more than enough reasons for using these new systems of track building, I am coming to think perhaps the price point is detracting from both the quality of the items and the simplicity of the build method. For certain things will change as Templot 3D develops. Templot has changed so much in the past 30 years mostly in its usability/user friendly in 2D, the past few years has seen 3D printing develop, and for the past year others are assisting in Templot's development.

I can accept it may be a bit of a difficult concept for some to accept, but Wayne Kierney with British Finescale is doing tremendous work in the smaller scales, providing 3D printed turnout and crossing kits at a reasonable cost from 2mm to P4 scales. It just so happens that in 7mm scale 3D (FDM) filament printing is an exciting new concept

Interesting days to come

*** These jigs would aid any modeler who is building track work via more traditional methods

 

[simond]

John,

I agree with much of what you say, but would perhaps focus on different reasons:

Very few people would be raving over a photo of a scratch built turnout compared to the excitement a nicely-modelled piece of rolling stock or the glory piece, a mainline steam loco, would generate. I suspect there is a bit of bias here. Track is somehow seen as mundane by most modellers, despite the “gauge wars”.

Until Martin created Templot, we all used RTR, or points kits or copperclad, with commercially available templates, or did some cut-and-shut versions of templates, or got really serious and drew the things out longhand. I suspect the latter was a very very small minority.

There is a perception amongst modellers that track building is really difficult. Whilst some basic equipment is needed, and some skills have to be learned, those of us who’ve done it know it’s not too hard at all, certainly not as challenging as some rolling stock. Despite our protestations, this perception persists.

Being able to make smooth flowing track, or awkward formations to suit difficult clearances, is the greatest boon, and I thoroughly enjoy doing it - without Templot, I’d be using printed templates and bits of drawing here & there - so I for one am very grateful to Martin and the other contributors for the continued development of this tool.

When the time comes for more track building/laying, I shall certainly be using COT, and Plug track, and loose chairs glued to plywood sleepers, maybe a bit of copperclad, and Peco…

 

[Hayfield1]

John,

I agree with much of what you say, but would perhaps focus on different reasons:

Very few people would be raving over a photo of a scratch built turnout compared to the excitement a nicely-modelled piece of rolling stock or the glory piece, a mainline steam loco, would generate. I suspect there is a bit of bias here. Track is somehow seen as mundane by most modellers, despite the “gauge wars”.

Until Martin created Templot, we all used RTR, or points kits or copperclad, with commercially available templates, or did some cut-and-shut versions of templates, or got really serious and drew the things out longhand. I suspect the latter was a very very small minority.

There is a perception amongst modellers that track building is really difficult. Whilst some basic equipment is needed, and some skills have to be learned, those of us who’ve done it know it’s not too hard at all, certainly not as challenging as some rolling stock. Despite our protestations, this perception persists.

Being able to make smooth flowing track, or awkward formations to suit difficult clearances, is the greatest boon, and I thoroughly enjoy doing it - without Templot, I’d be using printed templates and bits of drawing here & there - so I for one am very grateful to Martin and the other contributors for the continued development of this tool.

When the time comes for more track building/laying, I shall certainly be using COT, and Plug track, and loose chairs glued to plywood sleepers, maybe a bit of copperclad, and Peco…

Simon

Very much as usual I guess you have hit the nail on the head.




A simple comparison overall



OK I have a temporary tiebar, and not too much difference visually



This is the main area visually, which is really noticeable, I guess this is because Templot does not have to take into consideration of mass production requirements and plug and play. Its brining an opportunity of bespoke design to all without breaking the bank. With Templot we also have the benefit of further refining the design to match improvements in wheel technology.

As for gauge wars, 32mm gauge looks nearly as good as 33mm (& 31.5) gauge. All are just as easy to build as each other, with just basic modeling skills required,

 

[Hayfield1]

How long do the parts take to print?

Tim

Tim

Yesterday I printed an A5 turnout, Cura estimated 4 hours 50 mins to print all 3 bricks, though it always takes longer, as the largest brick was estimated as taking 2h 15m but took 2h 35m.

As Martin said during the printing rarely is any intervention required

Cura also estimated 70g of filament was used. The price of Esun seems dynamic varying by both colour and time of day, usually between £14 and £16 per kilo

But I think both cost and print time, are distractions to the real benefits

Firstly the level of both accuracy to the prototype aligned with a level of prototypical detail is unmatched by any other method, given each type of different chair required is produced, though only in REA 3 bolt.

Equally this level of quality is achievable by almost all modelers due to the simplicity of the method of building, limiting factor is access to a 3D printer

Cost for the home printer if looking at raw materials is quite low, what the price point would be for professionally made prints is unknown. But the cost of buying a machine can be quickly recouped when the cost of RTR or kits are taken into consideration.

I still say the most important thing is, an accurate model can be produced which is more detailed than other offerings available

John

 

[TerryD]

I should add that I did build my own track for Pencarrow, including filing all the blades and Vs etc. Plus I fitted 3d printed special chairs and tarty tie bars. So I'm not adverse to this myself.

The question came from a friend re-entering the hobby, with limited experience, but knowing enough about the prototype to not like the Peco offering. At this time I'm trying to give a few pointers of alternative options.

I'd forgotten Marcway, but that was probably as I was never keen on the visual appearance of rails soldered flat to sleepers in 4mm, let alone 7mm.

With all the new 3d printing and laser cutting options being developed, it's an interesting time to be looking at track. A gap at the moment seems to be someone or a company you can send your requirements to and they send you the bespoke 3d/laser cut parts.

If You are still looking for a bespoke 3D Printing and Laser cutting Service then, take a look at www.kosmik.co.uk I have just started offering these services and keen to develop new ideas and truly welcome any feedback. Terry.

 

[Pencarrow]

Thank you Terry. I've not heard back from said friend but will pass on the info. Many thanks

 

[Hayfield1]

Thank you Terry. I've not heard back from said friend but will pass on the info. Many thanks

I am just about to review one of Terrys 7mm kits in my 3D track building thread

 

[76043]

I think we are not asking the person concerned the right questions. First off, do they have the relevant hand building skills or computer skills and are willing to invest time and money into it? It's all very well saying do this or that but we don't know what the person concerned is comfortable with?
Tony

 

[spikey faz]

If I were to investigate Templot and 3D track modelling I'd have to invest in a computer or laptop as I currently only use an Android phone for my 'interneting'. What would be the minimum spec I'd be looking at, and more importantly at what cost?

Unlike some peeps here who seem to have IT knowledge of CAD and other such things (Templot for example), I unfortunately don't. Are these things easy to learn?

Cheers
Mike