7mm Gladiator LMS/BR Fowler/Stanier 4P 2-6-4T

[P A D]

Next up through the works will be the 7mm Gladiator Fowler 2-6-4t with limousine cab. His is another design by John Firminger which David Hill has taken into his range.
Here's what you get in the box.


Brass etchings. The tank/cab and bunker sides and rear have the half etched rivets on the reverse sides in this image, but there are lots to punch out. The cab roof is half etched with the rivets and vent rails in relief. That will make for easy forming without the need to aneal.


The boiler and smoke box are ready rolled with the rivets punched out. You get the usual assortment of wires and rods for handrails etc.


The chassis etches are quite substantial nickel silver, as was the Horwich Mogul.


And bags of lovely brass and white metal castings.


I'm off out the garage to make a start.

Cheers,
Peter

 

[P A D]

So, I got the frames up this afternoon. Here they are after de-cusping.


And after adding the spacers, some to the left frame and some to the right. As can be seen, I've elongated the centre axle hole so the middle axle can "float".


Here they are set up in the Avonside jig.


And soldered up.




Here they are after a scrub with the Barkeeper's mate.




These are amongst the longest frames I've assemble, being just short of a foot long! That's the David Andrews' Stanier 4P behind, who's frames were equally long.


When I've prepared the wheels I'll put the axle bearings in, space them centrally on the front and rear axles and then solder them. That way I won't need any washers apart from on the centre axle.

Cheers,
Peter

 

[P A D]

Yesterday I added the brake gear which is always a time consuming job. It took me about 5 hours to decusp and fit all the parts, but satisfying in the end. This is just some of the parts after prepping, with the pull rods still to do. I'd previously prepped and fitted the wheels to double check that the chassis was square on a flat surface (ceramic hobb).




I found that the sand dispensers on the inside sandboxes fouled the pull rods so I've temporarily removed them. Filing the inner faces will probably sort it.






Cheers,
Peter

 

[chigley]

I always enjoy following your builds Peter

 

[P A D]

Thanks Chigley.

I've made some additions to the chassis to cover omissions in the kit, along with a correction to the brake rigging, which on studying the drawings in the Wild Swann profile on the class, showed to be incorrect.
First the missing shackles between the centres of the leaf springs and the hornblocks. Here's how the come.


And after adding the shackles from waste fret.


Not the best of images, but there is no longer a gap between the springs and the frames when viewed through the spokes.


Then there's the ashpan sides added from brass sheet


And a closer view


Here's how the brake gear is assembled as per the instructions. We'll almost, as the rod connecting to the hand brake was originally in the center on the crank connected to the center pull rod. As the hand brake is on the fireman's side of the cab, I cut it off and repositioned. However, after studying the works drawings it was clear the loco had a brake cylinder either side and two pull rods running from the rear cross beam.


Here it is after correcting. I've removed the cylinder and am not bothering to add one each side as they are not visible.


I decided to leave the chassis for now and make a start on the body. Here are the main parts of the running plate cut out for decusping. Note the waste fret bridges added between the upper running plate parts to keep them correctly spaced when adding the valances. The instructions mention two sacrificial bridges on these parts, but none were present.


When prepping the running plates it's important to remove the cusp from inside the locating slots for the tabs on the tank sides. I have a small file ground down on one side that I use for this.


Here are the three running plate parts tacked to the valances.


I ran out of time before I could solder up all round, but it's gone together nice and squarely.


And it sits nicely on the chassis frames.




Cheers,
Peter

 

[AdeMoore]

Wonderful miniature engineering there Peter. Expertly done.

 

[Genghis]

Interesting information.

When I built the earlier version I found that I had to extend the slot in the rear bogie so that it could get round curves ok. This kit had a different rear bogie but may have the same issue.

David

 

[P A D]

Many thanks Ade.

David, does the reference in the instructions to the "bridges" on parts 61 refer to the other parts in between? I wondered about this but preferred to have something more rigid than the tabs and hence the use of waste fret soldered across the gap between the two running plates before cutting then out. Ther is a bridge between the front ends of the rear part of the running plate, but I found it easier the remove this and make the bends individually.



Cheers,
Peter

 

[Genghis]

Peter, I’ll do some digging.
Merry Christmas
Dave

 

[P A D]

After lunch today I finished off the work on the running plate. I added the buffer beams at both ends along with the smokebox saddle and the retaining nuts at the rear.


Notice where the slots in the running plate are adjacent to the outside of the valance. As mentioned previously, it's important to decusp these in the flat so that the tabs in the tank sides will locate easily. It's a pig to do this after the valance is in place!


I found the saddle top a real pig to bend to shape, despite annealing 3 times it still could not be formed around the dowel I was using! However, the rolling bars made swift work of it.




The rear of the saddle has to locate between the frames but I found it to be too wide and had to remove metal from each side so the running plate would sit down.


To assemble the running plate, the instructions suggest forming the curves in the front part, then solder it to the front of the mid section, followed by forming the curves in the rear section and soldering to the rear of the mid section.It's then a matter of soldering this unit to the valances. However, I preferred to solder the running plate sections to the valances one at a time starting at the front.


After that I added the mid and rear sections without problem. Doing it this way you don't need the strengtheners provided to beef up the joint in the middle, and I was concerned that they would get in the way of soldering the side tanks in place from the inside.


The buffer beams come in two parts as per the prototype. To line them up and hold for soldering I fastened them together with M3 nuts and bolts.


Cheers,
Peter

 

[Genghis]

I think that if John had still been with us I would have asked him to replace the saddle for this and the very similar original cab variant with a 3D print and then had that resin cast. His later kits all have this and it makes assembly much easier. This kit was obviously based very closely on his original Signature Models design for the drafty cab version, though both the body and frame etches are different. Peter has advised me about a missing part from the cab, so I am now on the hunt to see what has happened there.
Dave

 

[P A D]

It's strange that annealing didn't soften the metal. On the 3rd attempt I heated it till it glowed bright red but it still would not form around the dowel. If I hadn't had the rolling bars I would have made a replacement out of brass sheet. If it was half etched with the rivets in relief that would be OK.

Cheers,
Peter

 

[Genghis]

Peter has unearthed a problem with the tool for the body etch. It looks like John did a modification to the tool to add additional details missing from the original, such as planking on the cab floor. Unfortunately it looks like the changes resulted in the toolbox moving from this:


to this:



Let's hope that PPD can amend the tool - should be straightforward.

Dave

 

[adrian]

Peter has unearthed a problem with the tool for the body etch. It looks like John did a modification to the tool to add additional details missing from the original, such as planking on the cab floor. Unfortunately it looks like the changes resulted in the toolbox moving from this:

I'm guessing an errant half etch line top and bottom in the same place for the toolbox.

 

[Genghis]

I'm guessing an errant half etch line top and bottom in the same place for the toolbox.

Yes that's my thought. I assumed that John had sent me the dwg files, but if he did I cannot find them. A request for help has already gone to PPD but I don't expect any reply until the New Year. I've asked them to produce some spares so that when others find the problem we will be able to send replacements. We don't have records of who has bought these kits in the past. The good (???) news is that to date we have only sold 3 (one of which is with Peter) so there are not many out there. Now I need to work out how the prototype build was ok............

 

[simond]

3D print might be easier than fixing the etch?

 

[Genghis]

3D print might be easier than fixing the etch?

I think fixing the etch is a quick job, assuming that it's just a wrong colour on the drawing.

 

[P A D]

Here's the cab rear, floor and bunker rear ready for fitting. David Hill offered to send me a replacement part for the locker, but that would have left him with an incomplete kit, so I declined and knocked it up from scratch.


I still need to add the tank vent pipes behind the cab rear.


Note the shovel plate below the coal doors. It fouls the rear of the cab floor so I've removed it. The front of the frames and the footsteps have been added to the drop in the running plate and the interior part of the tanks and rear wheel splashers have been made up ready for fitting.


The firebox assembly is classis Gladiator/David Andrews, with tuned brass spacers and screws to set up the front and rear plates for adding the wrapper. The wrapper as it comes is full length, but only a small part is visible above the tank tops so I marked and scribed it for cutting.


And removed the excess metal. Note the index marks for aligning with the marks on the front and rear plates.


Annealing the wrapper is suggested but I didn't find it necessary. This end is the rear.




After making up the boiler and smokebox I screwed it all together and had a dry run on thr running plate. Only thr cab front is soldered to the running plate at this stage.


And with the cast white metal door and ring inserted. The cast hinge pin was damaged so I've removed it and will replace with brass rod.








It sure is a big beastie!


Cheers,
Peter

 

[P A D]

I've made some progress on the bodywork and it's starting to feel like I'm getting somewhere now. After riveting the tank/cab sides I added most of the details to the tank tops before fixing them to the sides.


Before making the bends at the front of the tanks I added the footsteps and oil boxes in the flat.


I prepped up the cab doors and side pieces ready for fitting but ran out of time. There's no hand brake standard in the kit so I scratched one up. After further study of prototype images I've concluded that the box structures for the forward sand fillers are incorrect, so I've removed them. I'll come back to these later.


Here's where I've got to.


The boiler is just screwed in place for now as I want to add the boiler bands before soldering it in place.


If I'd followed the instructions, the boiler would have been fixed by now, but I wanted to be able to solder the tanks from the inside to minimise cleaning up. I checked beforehand with a dry run to be sure the boiler would fit in OK.


And finally, the cab floor and the inner tank/splashers have been added. Cleaning up has still to be done


The splashers are not quite wide enough but I'll sort the gaps out later.


Cheers,
Peter

 

[P A D]

I managed to complet superstructure rivet fest over the lat few day by punching out the bunker sides.


And added the boiler bands. Those on the firebox are from the kit but the middle and rear ones are cut from thin brass shim.



David Hill mentioned in @SimonME30's thread (Signature Models Fowler 2-6-4), that adding the bands to the to the firebox makes fitting the boiler difficult as they make the firebox too wide and it fouls the tank top edges. However, fitting them with the firebox in situ would be a real pain so i scribed a line along the firebox sides at the tank top edges and cut the band at this line. I cut the bands for the boiler a little wider to faciltate fitting the Fox transfers lining, but these are a bit too wide so ireplaced them before soldering the boler in place.


As I mentioned previously, the box structure for the front sand fillers is incorrect. It should just be an angled plate so I modifed the removed part and refit the lid. It still interfered with fitting the angle bracket at the bottom of the tank front, but I cut this down a couple of mill to accomodate. The top edge fouled the the rear of the smokebox so I ground some clearance with a cutting burr.


Here's the cab rear after fitting my scratched up hand brake.


Andinplace after completing the rear end.


The chimney casting is solid but fortunately the base has a hefty stud allowing fitting in the lathe for drilling out. I didn't go all the way down but some matt black paint will disguise that.


The chimney and dome are just placed for the photos. I fitted the water guage in front of the cab before fitting the boiler as well as adding the handrail to the right of the smokebox and the single knob on the left side. Its always easier to fit these items before it's all together.


More work on the dome base is needed for it to sit corrctly.




A gratuitous shot with the later Stanier variant.


Cheers,
Peter