mickoo
Western Thunderer
Well I've bounced around the idea for several years now, basically trying to justify why I shouldn't make one or find valid reasons why I should, in the end they're all pointless mind arguments, so, as we say at work JFDI
The next choice was scale, now Backwoods make a very nice rendition, but me being me would rather the engine frames and chassis were a little more....full fat...., thus I'd end up etching new frames and then that would lead to this and that and in the end it'd be pointless rebuilding another kit, besides in O gauge it's quite small...I'm beginning to find even O gauge standard gauge small these days.
Next scale up is of course Gauge 1 and things are looking up size wise, the engine still comes in at just over 440mm long but again not really quite big enough, having said that I did also / still am looking at some 3'-6" SAR engines which are quite a lot bigger and still fit inside my 'window' which I've set as about 1m long.
In the end I opted for 16mm scale, which uses 32mm track, the same track I use to test OF etched models on and by pure chance, the same size for Gauge 1 3'-6" SAR locos
So where do we go from here, scale and gauge are set it's just a case of getting on with. There are still a lot of unanswered questions but rather than mind wrestle them like I traditionally do I thought I'd just wing it for a change.
Starting at the front, 'literally' I whizzed up the front buffer beam and a couple of brackets in CAD just to get an idea of the actual size, it's big. The buffer beams are quite substantial affairs, not quite sure why as there's no load bearing fittings on there, probably more to do with wildlife impact I suspect. I've basically two choices from here, one transfer a paper outline and cut raw material or, two work up an etch sheet for PPD. Both approaches have their advantages and disadvantages, but either way I still have to do the CAD work, the CAD work is also handy if I ever decide to do another or scale smaller for a gauge 1 model.
Scratch building is cheap, there's no getting over that, however it's time consuming and requires a certain amount of skill, despite what many think, I still struggle making anything straight or flat that has a surface larger than the tool doing the work, so etching has it's attractions, but at a cost. Of course making a model in 16mm as big as the NGG16 as etched art work is silly isn't it, or is it?
The front buffer beam scales out at roughly 0.8mm thick, that's a substantial slab to cut and make all edges flat and square if you were scratch building, add to this is has a lot of bolt head detail on the front, 59 to be precise, all 7/8" Whit which scales in 16mm as near as can be bothered to 14BA, so a lot of holes to drill. Lets also bear in mind that all of this has to be done twice. Another option would be to laser cut these parts, I've not explored that option yet but it might work out cheaper.
Either way, the original idea of being at one with metal and tools is rapidly receding to be replaced with letting technology do the work but at a cost, in fact it's probably cheaper because the time saved is better used to progress other commercial aspects.
So we now have some artwork for the front buffer beam, it's not much, but it's a start. All of the holes will be bolted with 14BA to angle or parts behind, I did toy with making the bolt heads a half etch overlay but have opted instead for two layers of 0.45mm etched brass, I may just go for Nickle Silver but I've not decided and there's virtually no difference in costs these days.
Next up is the drag box, quite a large affair and not unlike the W1 in part fabrication, following that will be the cylinder stay and they I'll just work back to the rear of the engine as required.
Will any of the model be scratch built, almost certainly yes, angles and bunkers etc can all be scratch built, boiler, smokebox, firebox and chassis are good candidates. The main engine frames and outside cranks will be milled from 3mm brass by someone far more skilled than I and then drilled (frames) for bolted construction.
One thing looming is axle boxes and suspension, I've seen a lot of live steam 16mm locos with rigid frames, is that the norm? I'm also going to go for ball race bearings, just because I can really.
To surmise, I suppose I'm trying to model in 16mm without the need for reasonably robust engineering workshop tools or facilities, I'll see how well that approach works in the future
Mick D
The next choice was scale, now Backwoods make a very nice rendition, but me being me would rather the engine frames and chassis were a little more....full fat...., thus I'd end up etching new frames and then that would lead to this and that and in the end it'd be pointless rebuilding another kit, besides in O gauge it's quite small...I'm beginning to find even O gauge standard gauge small these days.
Next scale up is of course Gauge 1 and things are looking up size wise, the engine still comes in at just over 440mm long but again not really quite big enough, having said that I did also / still am looking at some 3'-6" SAR engines which are quite a lot bigger and still fit inside my 'window' which I've set as about 1m long.
In the end I opted for 16mm scale, which uses 32mm track, the same track I use to test OF etched models on and by pure chance, the same size for Gauge 1 3'-6" SAR locos
So where do we go from here, scale and gauge are set it's just a case of getting on with. There are still a lot of unanswered questions but rather than mind wrestle them like I traditionally do I thought I'd just wing it for a change.
Starting at the front, 'literally' I whizzed up the front buffer beam and a couple of brackets in CAD just to get an idea of the actual size, it's big. The buffer beams are quite substantial affairs, not quite sure why as there's no load bearing fittings on there, probably more to do with wildlife impact I suspect. I've basically two choices from here, one transfer a paper outline and cut raw material or, two work up an etch sheet for PPD. Both approaches have their advantages and disadvantages, but either way I still have to do the CAD work, the CAD work is also handy if I ever decide to do another or scale smaller for a gauge 1 model.
Scratch building is cheap, there's no getting over that, however it's time consuming and requires a certain amount of skill, despite what many think, I still struggle making anything straight or flat that has a surface larger than the tool doing the work, so etching has it's attractions, but at a cost. Of course making a model in 16mm as big as the NGG16 as etched art work is silly isn't it, or is it?
The front buffer beam scales out at roughly 0.8mm thick, that's a substantial slab to cut and make all edges flat and square if you were scratch building, add to this is has a lot of bolt head detail on the front, 59 to be precise, all 7/8" Whit which scales in 16mm as near as can be bothered to 14BA, so a lot of holes to drill. Lets also bear in mind that all of this has to be done twice. Another option would be to laser cut these parts, I've not explored that option yet but it might work out cheaper.
Either way, the original idea of being at one with metal and tools is rapidly receding to be replaced with letting technology do the work but at a cost, in fact it's probably cheaper because the time saved is better used to progress other commercial aspects.
So we now have some artwork for the front buffer beam, it's not much, but it's a start. All of the holes will be bolted with 14BA to angle or parts behind, I did toy with making the bolt heads a half etch overlay but have opted instead for two layers of 0.45mm etched brass, I may just go for Nickle Silver but I've not decided and there's virtually no difference in costs these days.
Next up is the drag box, quite a large affair and not unlike the W1 in part fabrication, following that will be the cylinder stay and they I'll just work back to the rear of the engine as required.
Will any of the model be scratch built, almost certainly yes, angles and bunkers etc can all be scratch built, boiler, smokebox, firebox and chassis are good candidates. The main engine frames and outside cranks will be milled from 3mm brass by someone far more skilled than I and then drilled (frames) for bolted construction.
One thing looming is axle boxes and suspension, I've seen a lot of live steam 16mm locos with rigid frames, is that the norm? I'm also going to go for ball race bearings, just because I can really.
To surmise, I suppose I'm trying to model in 16mm without the need for reasonably robust engineering workshop tools or facilities, I'll see how well that approach works in the future
Mick D
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I'd planned on 3mm brass bar frames and fabricated Nickle Silver stays and assemblies, probably all 0.6mm, I think you can silver solder (something else to get to grips with) Nickle Silver? These'll be bolted to the frames.
I'll dig a little more this evening, as such the actual hole sizes are just place holders and I may need to open some out depending on which rivets or bolts I finally get.
I might opt for a late version model with welded tanks at this rate!
It seems to be aa bit of a lottery. 
and as close to the line as your reasonably comfortable with! Second, just trying to cut thin sheet with out a backing plate is fruitless, it just generates a lot of noise and heat...and blue language.
