4mm An EM Workbench: Mineral allsorts

[AJC]

Just fettling the side panels on the first of the Palbricks. It's going to take a while to finish all four...



And also, courtesy of this picture taken at Hove in 1966 and found on Flickr - https://www.flickr.c...57635467172110/and some extremely useful gen from Jonathan Wealleans, an Italian ferry van, or at least, the birthpangs of one in sheet plastic. Reshaping the Bill Bedford W irons took longer than the plastic work, the joy of working in 60 thou' sheet. Detail overlays to follow.





I think I've also found a source of 1m (scale) diameter wheels in 4mm...

Adam

 

[AJC]

Meanwhile, at the Southampton show (which was excellent - if you're free tomorrow and were wavering, waver no more, it's well worth it), a Lowmac escaped the box, briefly. For some reason, the shed foreman at Clevedon (WC&P) initially put it next to the coal stage before moving it somewhere more convenient (and visible):





Thanks to Andrew Ullyot for his hospitality and forbearance. Perhaps someone else captured the trestrol as it passed through?

Adam

 

[AJC]

Some time back, I finished a model of a Chas Roberts slope-sided mineral a while ago - 4mm - An EM workbench - Palbrick and Tomatoes | Page 17 | Western Thunder - I was interested to note that the HMRS photo' collections has a large number of Chas Roberts' official photos. There are some variants here which I was totally unaware... Here's what I produced:



Here's a 'normal' one: http://www.hmrs.org.uk/photograph-collection/images/1200px/AAT607.jpg

Here is what mine would originally have looked like (part of the Chas Roberts hire fleet):

http://www.hmrs.org.uk/photograph-collection/images/1200px/AAT618.jpg

http://www.hmrs.org.uk/photograph-collection/images/1200px/AAT635.jpg

Pressed steel side doors, continental-style axleguards, reversed solebars. Quite exotic. More exotic is this:

http://www.hmrs.org.uk/photograph-collection/images/1200px/AAT615.jpg

I've never seen one with top cupboard doors like that...

Adam

 

[Lyndhurstman]

Lovely work, Adam. As always.

Regarding the Chas. Roberts wagons, Paul Bartlett posted this interesting end door:

HMRS: Information on photograph<br>reference number: AAS518

On the BR_wagon_research Yahoo Group yesterday. A lightweight jobbie according to the other phots:


http://www.hmrs.org.uk/photograph-collection/images/1200px/AAS516.jpg
http://www.hmrs.org.uk/photograph-collection/images/1200px/AAS519.jpg

Cheers

Jan

 

[7mmMick]

Hi Adam,

As you may have seen on my WB thread I've been away from the Hobby for about a year, that said I always look in on your projects and enjoy what I see. I have three of these on the bench at the minute in 7mm, using Parkside bodies. One of which is one of the Denaby fleet, which I believe were about just prior to a Nationalisation. Have you seen the modellers backtrack articles on these wagons, they're very interesting indeed. I've never seen on with cupboard doors though, I thought they were only seen on the ex SNCF steel bodied minerals? Are you intending any of these builds as I would be really interested to see them?

Best Regards Mick

 

[AJC]

Hi Mick,

Yes, I gathered that you'd been away (glad to see you back).

The Chas Roberts wagon I built is based on a vehicle pictured in those very Modeller's Backtrack articles. I've posted pictures of the finished vehicle earlier in the thread but I'll post it again at the bottom of this one, though I don't seem to have taken any pictures since I lettered it. Seemingly, Chas Roberts built a batch with the 'continental' axleguards for their own hire fleet and I'd quite like to do one in 7mm - I've got the bits for a couple lurking in the bottom drawer, left over from a club competition - but I hadn't seen the cupboard door version before yesterday. Thinking about it, the idea isn't so odd, there were wooden-built wagons with top cupboard doors like that; some appear in John Hayes's book on 4mm Coal Wagons (Wild Swan) and I guess it's just a variant on the top flaps that all those thousands of BR 1/108s had.

Modelling the '60s, as I do, quite a lot of these variants had gone but the Yeovil club's 7mm layout 'The Summit' is short of wagons so I might try one or two in that scale, lettered for the Chas Roberts fleet. Don't hold your breath on those, however!



Adam

 

[7mmMick]

Very nice indeed Adam. I like the sounds of the 7mm versions, but not holding my breath I fancied doing a few of these and at least a couple o the Ministry of War Transport ones as with John's book and the Modellers back track articles there's prototype photos of at least two to model and they're ideal for me modelling the time around nationalisation. As an aside I always liked the look of the cupboard doors on the wooden pool fleet but assumed from what I had read that they were largely confined to the Scottish area?

Mick

 

[AJC]

Very nice indeed Adam. I like the sounds of the 7mm versions, but not holding my breath I fancied doing a few of these and at least a couple o the Ministry of War Transport ones as with John's book and the Modellers back track articles there's prototype photos of at least two to model and they're ideal for me modelling the time around nationalisation. As an aside I always liked the look of the cupboard doors on the wooden pool fleet but assumed from what I had read that they were largely confined to the Scottish area?

Mick

Not sure about that, at least, not post-war - a reasonable number of those pictures are from the A.E. West and Roye England collections: Tony West was Somerset-based and Roye England obviously focussed on the Great Western's area of operations, but cupboard doors seem to have been a particularly Scottish preoccupation for whatever reason. The top flaps have more akin with LSWR/SECR and latterly Southern practice. I'm not sure if any other post-Nationalisation company did that.

Anyhow, here's what I found at the bottom of the drawer.



The amount of dust is rather indicative of my level of involvement in 7mm! Also in the drawer were a pair of 'normal' minerals, slightly to my surprise. I'd also forgotten how much slop comes as standard in 7mm finescale. Sheesh! I seem to remember that Hobby Holidays do Ambis bits in 7mm so that's a source of acceptable brake levers, guides and so on. I remember that for our club competition entries we fretted new levers from sheet and made the best of the guides.

Now, does anyone know what colour Chas Roberts painted their hire fleet? Does anyone produce transfers?



As I say, don't hold your breath - not least because I'm moving in a couple of weeks.

Adam

 

[AJC]

Meanwhile, my little Italian ferry van has inched forward a little. The extent is limited: just bracing and internal reinforcement - the vehicle now consists of a 60 thou' carcass with a 40 thou' outer layer. I'd have been better off using 40 thou' for the ends and 60 thou' for the sides since this would have saved a fair bit of plastic for no discernible loss of rigidity, but never mind. Just behind the basic body you can see the false ceiling that will go on top preventing the sides from bowing inwards - the holes are to allow the solvent fumes to evaporate off and there are similar ones in the floor. Having reached this stage, it will be allowed to harden off for a week or two.



So far, so tidy.

Adam

 

[AJC]

Way back when, I made some steps towards a model of one of my favourite prototypes, a Brighton Terrier. Those wagons won't move themselves...

It all looked quite good, but led me a merry dance trying to get it to actually run. So, bullet bitten, I've striped it down and started again using conventional compensation rather than the whizzy fully comp' version I'd intended and some Comet frames. These are dimensionally sound but have some strange features. The brakegear is designed for a much larger engine using the same dimensions so the pull rods and brake shoes are still on the etch and I reused the Branchlines versions which while not perfect are at least of appropriate proportions. I also recycled all the additional detail and added a bit more.



No sandboxes are supplied with either the Comet or Branchlines etches so I sourced some from Perserverance Kits - Perseverance Kits by Puffers Model Railway Products- and a Marsh chimney to go with them (I could have had a chassis too, I suppose). Steam lines for the sandpipes also went on, something that was surprisingly straightforward using the wire that comes wrapped round some bottles of rioja and the next stage is to add the brake pull rods and pick ups but it rolls nicely - though one of the wheels needed pinning to its axle - so that shouldn't prove too traumatic.

So, why have I painted the chassis such a fetching shade of maroon?

Well, this should answer that:



A start has been made on reworking the body to better represent 'Brighton Works' which means lopping off the front splashers, scratchbuilding a new saddle for the smokebox (which will have the extension ring fitted with a new smokebox door), carving off the clack valves and that lovely chimney has to go as well since Brighton Works had a slightly less delicate replacement under Marsh. The full list of body modifications currently runs to a side of A4 but none of them will affect the tank or cab sides so that lovely paintjob will remain.

Yes, the boiler will have to be repainted which isn't a great problem since the Hornby rendition is a good match for the Precision version of Stroudley 'Improved Engine Green'. The valance will also have to get a repaint as well to match the chassis as opposed to the buffer beams. And before you ask, yes, I have the lining in hand in the form of transfers from Eric Gates (who designed them on behalf of the Brighton Circle).

Adam

 

[AJC]

After such a colourful interlude (and it'll be back, I promise), we return to the monochrome world of plastic sheet, leavened to some extent by brass and whitemetal. This, then, is the further adventures in the Italian food industry.



What should be visible, just about, are the scribed centre doors (a real trial) and the small hatches in the top corners which I decided to cut out because I found it easier to form a nice radiused corner (or by means of a drill), cut one than to scribe one tidily. Looking at pictures, I think the hatch doors should be flush so it's a case of cutting the hatch doors from 20 thou'. As you can also see, I've had to make some adjustment to the axleguards since I made them too deep; setting the ride height with reference to the guide line etched in the front face should be reasonably simple I hope. Buffers are by Lanarkshire Model Supplies, couplings by Masokits.



I've just tidied up the epoxy overflow from around the couplings but it does, now, look like a wagon...

Adam

 

[AJC]

While the ferry van inches forwards or, being a continental prototype, perhaps that should be 'progresses by mm'? Those wheels should be plain discs...



Work has concentrated on the Terrier. That said, this work has mostly involved lopping bits off and filling in holes. So the chimney has gone, which is a shame but it wasn't right for the prototype and a whitemetal replacement has been procured (when Gordon Gravett did his 7mm version of this loco and documented it back in MRJ 62 he built up the size of his Stroudley chimney with filler primer - a good Brighton colour...). The ring Hornby supply to extend the smokebox to A1X dimensions has been fitted, and the boiler filled with lead, but the rather feeble smokebox door has gone and quite a lot of Milliput has been deployed because well, Dapol put the filler caps in the wrong place, the handrail knobs are enormous, and in the case of those on the tank, in the wrong place (they should be mounted perpendicular to the tank top).



The weird splasher/gear cover inside the cab has gone too but gradually, parts are going back on, starting with the smokebox saddle. Just a bit of 30 thou' for the base and 20 thou', cut over length and curved, then clipped in a ring with a clothes peg and left on the radiator for a few minutes. Once cool it was trimmed to length and solvent welded in place; I've got to work out the way of making the curved edge...



Meanwhile, the chassis looks a bit more colourful - I wanted to get the wheels painted before pick ups and brake pull rods go on. This is just stage one, the rims need to be green as, I think, do the axle ends. Oh, and the sandpipes/guard irons will be bright red. Fiddly, these pre-grouping liveries...



The motor fitted and the, er, motor mount (lead sheet, epoxied in place, they'll be a spot of blu-tack later!).

Adam

 

[AJC]

World of Terrier, same but different. Brighton Works's striking Stroudley colour scheme takes several steps forward and, in the midst of it all, it runs, which is quite exciting. First, a view of the mechanics:



Just this once I put some thought into this. The chassis a basic compensated job with a beam connecting the front two axles and the axles themselves running in tube sleeves which the beam bears on for lower friction. Drive is on the rear axle with a Mashima 1024 installed via a High Level gearbox. Note that the pick up assembly consists of a pair of pieces of PCB screws to cross members and linked by bus bars onto which the pick ups for the centre wheels are fixed. The kink over the cosmetic ashpan is invisible the right way up. Happily, the pull rods on these are outside the wheels and that makes life easier. As luck would have it, I even wired the thing in the correct orientation at the first time of asking which is truly remarkable...



This way up shows the paintwork: the Precision paint yellow (sorry, Improved Engine Green) had to be let down a smidge with some very light grey to match the colour Hornby painted the body and is the better for it, I feel. We also have claret-coloured frames, and rods, green rims and the axle ends (the Gibson standard 1/8" axle being somewhat oversclae here), picked out in black. The guard irons and sandpipes are painted bright red which is all rather exciting while the continuation on the spokes over the balance weights is a neat touch on the real thing that was a bit of a fiddle to add. It appears much less gaudy than might be expected. The body is coming on a little too, with a couple of wedges added to build up the smokebox saddle. This will be completed using Milliput.



Adam

 

[Lyndhurstman]

Interesting stuff, Adam. I don't think the original was donee in a Paint Shop - more like an Acid House!

 

[AJC]

Interesting stuff, Adam. I don't think the original was done in a Paint Shop - more like an Acid House!

I'm not so sure Jan - I reckon that the ochre, green and claret come together as they're all a similar sort of tone - especially as the colours darkened I'm service - and it's clear that the Victorians had different ideas about what looked 'right'. It's just a bit odd to see it in colour: it would give us a very different idea of the 19th century if we routinely did.

I quite like the way the pick ups have come out. They're almost neat!

Adam

 

[Lyndhurstman]

I'm not so sure Jan - I reckon that the ochre, green and claret come together as they're all a similar sort of tone - especially as the colours darkened I'm service - and it's clear that the Victorians had different ideas about what looked 'right'. It's just a bit odd to see it in colour: it would give us a very different idea of the 19th century if we routinely did.

I quite like the way the pick ups have come out. They're almost neat!

Adam

I suppose it made for an unforgettable experience, seeing one for the first time. And youre no doubt correct - the GER had its Royal Blue, and the SE&CR was quite colourful - and pleasing, too.

Pick-ups. A Bane, i say. I'll say it a bane, and a bane... I've had several attempts at all sorts of arrangements(pick-ups, that is), and have never quite been happy with any of them - athough The Works 48 DS did run quite well (it hasn't been out of the box since we crossed the border into the Duchy last year) on them. As a result of my doubts, several split axle jigs and components sit lurking, waiting for the day that The Works takes on its first locomotive! But kudos to you - they do look very much the part.

Cheers

Jan

 

[Overseer]

I quite like the way the pick ups have come out. They're almost neat!

Adam

They are neat and the curlicues add to the high Victorian effect. I am particularly impressed with the motor connecting wires, I had never thought of looking for Improved Engine Green coloured insulation to match the paintwork. Now I will have to put away the black and red wire and try harder.

I work with Victorian colour schemes a lot and they certainly knew how to combine colours. I am not sure they had very different ideas about what looked right, although maybe they were more adventurous. The problem now is we try to replicate the colours using different pigments and small changes in colour and tone can ruin it all.

 

[AJC]

Owing to a house move, most of my belongings are currently in boxes, models included. I did, however, manage to get to Eurotrack (the Solent MRG's exhibition traditionally held in Eastleigh - this year it was just of Romsey Road in Southampton: the Southampton show is now held in Eastleigh. Karmic balance). As the name suggests there was much of overseas interest, some of it very good but my eye was taken by two layouts, Portsea - an exercise in 3mm impressionism, which is basically, a neatly foreshortened version of Portsmouth Harbour, and opposite that, a very nicely presented EM layout from the Sarum Finescale Group, Navigation Road. Ok, so as a wagon-oriented layout it would take my fancy, but I liked it so much, I even took a few photos.



That's a Nonneminstre whitemetal kit for a Sentinel as opposed to the Judith Edge or Hornby versions. A very neat model that ran appropriately slowly. I especially like the buildings from different eras rubbing shoulders so naturally.





Really rather nice.

Adam

 

[AJC]

So, the workbench, and everything else, has been relocated and is now sort of up and running again. It's a bit slow, however, because I painstakingly stored everything very carefully - though the bench itself moved in one piece with all its drawers - and I now have to find it again. With that in mind, it made sense to take one project and use that as a search aid and in the process get some modelling done. In this instance, it's giving my plastic Terrier a facelift. So, starting with the bit that Dapol got 'most wrong' (at least for an A1X), the smokebox. A handful of posts ago the bones of the new smokebox saddle were shown in all their gory detail. I didn't take any pictures of the process of building up the saddle in Milliput, partly because my fingers were covered in the stuff but some way down the line, this was the result:



Note the nice even curves and the 'orrid file marks on the buffer beam. No matter, we'll be coming back to that. The white area is 5 thou' plastic sheet which represents the smokebox ring behind the door. And so, a day or two later, spot the difference:



There's a dart (made from a turned base and a couple of handrail knobs for 0.3mm wire - a Terrier is a small machine, the real things are appropriately dainty: one size does not fit all). I'll be using these for the boiler handrails as well once I've bought some more. The buffer beam has been slightly reduced in height and you should be able to see that the hole for the coupling hook is now in the centre of the 'beam as it should be. It also means that the buffers look as though they'll be in the correct spot for this engine without too much modification to what's left. This is where the detail oddities come into play. Terriers had (have!) buffers at two different heights and different brake fittings. This one, weirdly, only had an air pipe on the bunker end in its latter years for example. The straps have yet to go on, but the Marsh chimney (Perseverance - happily available again) has and the loco looks better for it. Side on the effect is clear:



The tank fillers - somewhat underfed - have been sheaved with plastic tube and look better for the weight gain. Work still to do includes making the corners of the valances sharper and fabricating enormous amounts of pipework. The seriously eagle-eyed may notice that some of the filled holes in the boiler have been redrilled, but not all.



Why? Well, I discovered that most of the 'boiler' handrails were - and are - located on the tank tops, as this photo on Flickr shows: 02/11/1963 - twixt Hayling Island & Havant.

Onwards and upwards.

Adam

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

Why? Well, I discovered that most of the 'boiler' handrails were - and are - located on the tank tops

Ah - this is something I missed during the building of my O scale Terrier (2636) . Quite obvious now you've pointed it out (below). Something to rectify when I build my next Terrier, 2640 in the condition as she returned to the mainland from the IOW..

And like you I found during my research no two Terriers ended up looking alike.