First Layout Concept

AdamF

Western Thunderer
So, with the need to motorise and test the 517 chassis (and to provide a not unwelcome distraction from the burnt fingers, pressure perspiration and intensity of my first S7 build) I am starting to scope out a layout project (to be my first) on which to run the finished article.

So, the crucial question - how much space do I have?

Living in central London, in short, not much!! I have a space in my railway room/home office of about 8' by 2', which, with some clever design (someone else's, then :)) ) could be expanded about 2' in length and 1-2' in width.

At the moment, and having read an interesting thread here about the relationship between all the dimensions involved in designing and presenting a layout, it seems to me that my options are:

1) change scale;

2) build something of a compact test track with plenty of interest in the surroundings and, perhaps, some perspective modelling.

As to option 1), whilst a pleasantry (at least for now...), it has in the past been something that has caused me a disproportionate amount of trouble and I have been guilty of chopping and changing my mind on scale and gauge (together with membership of a number of societies) to the point of distraction, to the point indeed where the hobby was no longer fun.

Which is why I have determined to make the scale and gauge that captured my attention for the hobby work with whatever compromise is needed to make it work within my limitations. I will prove to myself that I can do it!!! :rant::)) Option 2) it must be!!

In terms of the setting, as much as I love a well rendered bucolic country terminus with exquisite scenery a la Barry Norman, it strikes me that I can't fit something like that in the space I have. Which means I am currently looking at my other love - grotty Victorian London!!! I am trying to sketch out a compact industrial arrangement set amongst imposing London style buildings (maybe in low relief etc.) and retaining walls. Needless to say I won't be basing it on a prototype!

We shall see - I also need to think about a scheme for expanding/storing the layout. My main aim, I think, will be to try and avoid too much railway and have much of the focus on the surroundings - I would hope that that distracts from size and potential lack of operational interest. That and I suspect I am more of a builder than an operator!!

I'll keep posting on this topic as things/thoughts develop. In the meantime, if anyone has any experiences to share of working in similar circumstances or any schemes that they found worked for them/mocked up well, it would be great to hear them.
 

Dog Star

Western Thunderer
Central London? S7?

How about contacting Peter Mann who organises the South East Area meetings of the Scaleseven Group... why? because Peter is one of the leading lights in the construction of a large round-and-round S7 layout and he hosts occasional area meetings at his house in North London.

You may find inspiration in the thoughts and writings of Adrian Buckjumper... see "The Rookery - Weeping Angels Yard" in the Layout part of this forum. S7, East End of London in late Victorian / early Edwardian period, small tanks / short trains / colourful variety. As Adrian is a member of WT no doubt he will be along soon... after all there ought to be a good service through the Rookery!

regards, Graham
 

Eastsidepilot

Western Thunderer
Adam,
Small urban industrial settings would be ideal for the space you have available. There are a couple of books worth looking at just to give you a couple of ideas, 7mm modelling by Gordon Gravett, parts one and two, and Ian Rices book designs for urban layouts may help.
As for prototype situations I take it your looking at GWR based ? for the 517. If you are there was a branch to Brentford Dock which I think started at Southhall, see here for inspirationhttp://www.gwr.org.uk/nobrentford.html
If you want something based on " The Smoke" then have a look at old ordnance survey maps of the area your interested in and seek out the railway yards, be warned it can be addictive.:rolleyes:

ATB, Col
 

AdamF

Western Thunderer
Central London? S7?

How about contacting Peter Mann who organises the South East Area meetings of the Scaleseven Group... why? because Peter is one of the leading lights in the construction of a large round-and-round S7 layout and he hosts occasional area meetings at his house in North London.

You may find inspiration in the thoughts and writings of Adrian Buckjumper... see "The Rookery - Weeping Angels Yard" in the Layout part of this forum. S7, East End of London in late Victorian / early Edwardian period, small tanks / short trains / colourful variety. As Adrian is a member of WT no doubt he will be along soon... after all there ought to be a good service through the Rookery!

regards, Graham

Thanks Graham - I have been following The Rookery - Weeping Angels Yard and Basilica Fields with much interest. I can't wait to see how it turns out! That is the sort of thing I have in mind.

Adam,
Small urban industrial settings would be ideal for the space you have available. There are a couple of books worth looking at just to give you a couple of ideas, 7mm modelling by Gordon Gravett, parts one and two, and Ian Rices book designs for urban layouts may help.
As for prototype situations I take it your looking at GWR based ? for the 517. If you are there was a branch to Brentford Dock which I think started at Southhall, see here for inspirationhttp://www.gwr.org.uk/nobrentford.html
If you want something based on " The Smoke" then have a look at old ordnance survey maps of the area your interested in and seek out the railway yards, be warned it can be addictive.:rolleyes:

ATB, Col

The Brentford Branch looks very interesting - I spent some time last night studying some online pics and histories. Food for thought, thanks Col - I wouldn't have picked up on it otherwise.

I think I will be poring over the OS maps at some point - working out where Ray Street Gridiron is having travelled through it to and from work every day for almost three years was very exciting!
 

Dog Star

Western Thunderer
You could find something interesting in a series of books under the title "GWR Goods Services"... published by Wild Swan. These books are about how the GWR handled goods across the country - hence there are photographs of goods yards and details of appropriate traffic, part 2A is for the London division (which includes the Brentford branch and GWR depots in the London docklands).

Similarly, the various books on wagons and loading thereof, (by the late Jim Russell / published by OPC), contain photos of wagons in docks such as Brentford.

regards, Graham
 

Buckjumper

Flying Squad
Some interesting possibilities Adam...the Great Western in Victorian London...how can anyone resist?

Of course it's very unlikely the 517s traversed the Metropolitan cut & cover lines, even though a number were fitted with condensing apparatus in the late 1870s, but this was linked to the use of feedwater pumps in lieu of injectors...much like Stroudey's LBSCR 'Terriers', though these locos were used on the ELR.

Paddington Kensington Hammersmith et al.jpg

However, there are plenty of opportunities to imagine where a one-puff branch in the vicinity might be located. For example, from Bishop's Road Station towards Paddington Basin into the area occupied by North Wharf Road. The Metropolitan/Middle Circle ran south of the basin under South Wharf Road, so you're in 'Underground territory', as well as being firmly placed in an area which historically was of major importance with regards to goods transhipment.

Of course you'll soon want a proper condensing loco alongside the 517 and the Roxey 'Metro' is perfect. Don't forget your Connoisseur AA7 'Acton Shortie' Toad too!



pdn_basin_large.jpg


Lots of potential for wharves, warehouses, brick-lined cuttings and bridges for scenic breaks. The squeal of flanges, the clanging of buffers and couplings, the mist rising from the basin...
 

Dog Star

Western Thunderer
Or you could go a couple of miles to the west... and build a short section of main line with Crimea yard to the south and Portebello Junction to the north (including the tunnel to get past Westbourne Park). Two fiddle yards of about 6' length with a 10' section in between. Scope for:-
* some express / secondary services rushing through...
* 517 and Metros on inner suburb passenger workings...
* terminating long-distance fitted goods...
* coal by the bucket (load)...

even the Smithfield workings (well that is one way to get the stock built for Artillery Lane).

Stop dreaming and start planning!
 

Eastsidepilot

Western Thunderer
.......Of course you'll soon want a proper condensing loco alongside the 517 and the Roxey 'Metro' is perfect. Don't forget your Connoisseur AA7 'Acton Shortie' Toad too!.........
.......Lots of potential for wharves, warehouses, brick-lined cuttings and bridges for scenic breaks. The squeal of flanges, the clanging of buffers and couplings, the mist rising from the basin...


Quiiiick ! grab 'im by the collar we nearly lost 'im....:))

ATB, Col.
 
S

Simon Dunkley

Guest
So, the crucial question - how much space do I have?

Living in central London, in short, not much!! I have a space in my railway room/home office of about 8' by 2', which, with some clever design (someone else's, then :)) ) could be expanded about 2' in length and 1-2' in width.
It is not just how much space, but how it is arranged. Is it in an alcove/recess? If so, would it be possible to take some tracks off at an angle (e.g. plug-in fiddle yard), and if so, which side, and for how far can you go?

Can you provide the simplest of sketches: it would help those of us with an inclination to such things?

Simon
 

Dog Star

Western Thunderer
Quiiiick ! grab 'im by the collar we nearly lost 'im....

If you are referring to Buckjumper then I think that he is beyond saving. The Basilica Fields journal (aka The Daily Blah) makes clear that Adrian is a man of many colours and worthy of the same adulation as was given to Western Rainbow Hero in a recent topic on this forum.
 

AdamF

Western Thunderer
Wow - thank you all for all your fantastic suggestions.

I have to say that something based on Paddington Basin is very intriguing indeed as I live about 10 minutes walk from it and I like the story that would go behind it (also a great excuse to get my hands on a Beyer Peacock Metro Tank!!). I will see if I can sketch something up. I had a read through the London volume of GWR Goods Services - plenty of information about the Paddington area as well. Difficult to source pictures of the historic basin though - any pointers greatly appreciated.


That was a great article and a couple of inspiring pics - thanks! I especially like the first picture, the way that the light plays through the various bridges and covers. Difficult to replicate perhaps, but that is the sort of feel I would like for at least the entrance to the layout.

It is not just how much space, but how it is arranged. Is it in an alcove/recess? If so, would it be possible to take some tracks off at an angle (e.g. plug-in fiddle yard), and if so, which side, and for how far can you go?

Can you provide the simplest of sketches: it would help those of us with an inclination to such things?

Simon

As soon as I can, I will post a quick sketch of the space. It's a space above some bookshelves along one wall of a small room at just below eye level which can accomodate a layout of approximate 10' by 3' (10' at an absolute pinch). That would have to include fiddleyard arrangements as well. Not easy!
 

Dog Star

Western Thunderer
Another source for inspiration is "Edwardian Enterprise" (pu. Wild Swan) with a good number of contemporary photos of the tracks between Paddington and Acton.

You might like to look through Great Western Railway Journal to see what has been written about the services in the area Southall to Paddington.

regards, Graham

BTW - make sure that you check out the tracks in the vicinity of Portobello Junction.... generally people do not believe that there was a tunnel there.
 

Buckjumper

Flying Squad
I have to say that something based on Paddington Basin is very intriguing indeed as I live about 10 minutes walk from it and I like the story that would go behind it (also a great excuse to get my hands on a Beyer Peacock Metro Tank!!).

I was thinking more along the lines of one of Swindon's finest creations, the GW Metro tank; the perfect accompaniment (and antidote) to the Wolverhampton 517s:

gwr_metro_968.jpg

Roxey do a corker of a kit with (I believe) brass castings by Tony Reynolds.
 

Buckjumper

Flying Squad
As soon as I can, I will post a quick sketch of the space. It's a space above some bookshelves along one wall of a small room at just below eye level which can accomodate a layout of approximate 10' by 3' (10' at an absolute pinch). That would have to include fiddleyard arrangements as well. Not easy!

Did you ever see Alexandra Yard by John D of this parish? Probably my favourite minimum space layout in 7mm. The scenic bit was 6' x 19" waisted to 14" in the middle. There was an extensive write up in RailModel Digest Issue 1. Something similar translated to an intensively urban setting would be perfect.
 

AdamF

Western Thunderer
Did you ever see Alexandra Yard by John D of this parish? Probably my favourite minimum space layout in 7mm. The scenic bit was 6' x 19" waisted to 14" in the middle. There was an extensive write up in RailModel Digest Issue 1. Something similar translated to an intensively urban setting would be perfect.

I don't think I have seen it - I always wanted to as I heard so many good things about it but I haven't found any pictures or write ups. I'll see if I can pick up a copy of RailModel Digest Issue 1 on eBay or the like!
 

John D

Western Thunderer
Here 'tis....straight from the horses mouth as it were..... have got the Mod.Rail Digest article on pdfs send me an e-mail on old.originals@ntlworld.com and I'll wire them across.
alex yard.jpg

Jim McGowan (Connoisseur Models) has the layout now and uses it for backdrops for his catalogue and website..
 
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