Prototype What is this wagon?
- Thread starter Dog Star
- Start date
AJC
Western Thunderer
Harrison & Camm - there's not a whole lot left is there? I'm not sure when they stopped building wagons, but the iron underframe must have been unusual. Where is it?
The Vintage Carriage Trust wagon survey doesn't have many: Railway Heritage Register Wagon Survey Project and most of those came into preservation ex-RNAD.
Adam
Dog Star
Western Thunderer
'We' are not taking this seriously.
You are correct, see photo below.
I get the impression that the axlebox cover might be brass/bronze/gunmetal.
You have followed the same line of thinking as me.
As I read the entries. Interesting that this example is on a site associated with the RN and may have got there via the RNAD.
Osgood
Western Thunderer
There's rust around the cover where paint is missing and where the lug has broken off - surely good old cast iron?
Osgood
Western Thunderer
Mmm.
Was your non-interest in the location or how-it-got-there perhaps a deliberate to put us off the scent?
1. Seaside location seems likely from over-modelled rust effect
2. Mention of Harrison & Camm being associated with Royal Navy leads to link with Royal Arsenal Railway (book the RA Rlys by Smithers)
3. A trip to the library (end room) yielded info that H&C had supplied substantial quantities of 18" gauge wagons to RA
4. A std gauge proof sled (big wagon for mounting & testing naval guns) has been preserved at Fort Nelson, Hants
5. Fort Nelson has a big outside display area looking remarkably like (if not identical to) that in your photo
Was your non-interest in the location or how-it-got-there perhaps a deliberate to put us off the scent?
1. Seaside location seems likely from over-modelled rust effect
2. Mention of Harrison & Camm being associated with Royal Navy leads to link with Royal Arsenal Railway (book the RA Rlys by Smithers)
3. A trip to the library (end room) yielded info that H&C had supplied substantial quantities of 18" gauge wagons to RA
4. A std gauge proof sled (big wagon for mounting & testing naval guns) has been preserved at Fort Nelson, Hants
5. Fort Nelson has a big outside display area looking remarkably like (if not identical to) that in your photo
Osgood
Western Thunderer
Although the real location may lead to an altogether different conclusion???
WOW!!! A Harrison and Camm 10 X 5 oil axle box
WOW!!! A Harrison and Camm 10 X 5 oil axle box
Osgood
Western Thunderer
There looks to be an image of the wagon in its much more respectable era on the front page of this site:
Scapa Flow Visitor Centre & Museum
Given the difficulty of transporting exhibits to this remote location, maybe it was built specifically for the naval installation here?
Scapa Flow Visitor Centre & Museum
Given the difficulty of transporting exhibits to this remote location, maybe it was built specifically for the naval installation here?
Dog Star
Western Thunderer
Osgood
Western Thunderer
A trip to Orkney was on the cards anyway, but a visit to the Scapa Flow Centre is a must for the naval history element (ok,ok - and the crane...).
Has this wagon deteriorated significantly since the site opened, or is the one in this image a second identical wagon?
Note extant brake gear etc, but the frame/buffer housings are identical, so could be the same one post-oxidtion.
There's a nice rail crane on site too!
The oil tank rear left is now an exhibition room - wonderful example of re-purposing (or whatever the new word is)!
Has this wagon deteriorated significantly since the site opened, or is the one in this image a second identical wagon?
Note extant brake gear etc, but the frame/buffer housings are identical, so could be the same one post-oxidtion.
There's a nice rail crane on site too!
The oil tank rear left is now an exhibition room - wonderful example of re-purposing (or whatever the new word is)!
Dog Star
Western Thunderer
Excellent, a volunteer.
Full chapter and verse are required plus, in best WT tradition, a complete photographic essay sufficient to satisfy the various and diverse historians / academics / nit-pickers that inhabit this virtual world. By the way, you can look at the other, non-railway, exhibits.
Osgood
Western Thunderer
Well thank you. There does appear to be significant 'stuff' to see on the islands in regard to naval history.
Over the last 10 years a much younger relative would often dive on the Scapa Flow wrecks (the scuppered WW1 German fleet) - the story of how scrap merchants spent years recovering metal from underwater is an interesting one.
I can confirm there are two identical wagons at this site- one has brake gear missing on one side (your wagon), the other looks pretty tidy.
Headstock of your wagon is/was stencilled ROYAL NAVY.
Over the last 10 years a much younger relative would often dive on the Scapa Flow wrecks (the scuppered WW1 German fleet) - the story of how scrap merchants spent years recovering metal from underwater is an interesting one.
I can confirm there are two identical wagons at this site- one has brake gear missing on one side (your wagon), the other looks pretty tidy.
Headstock of your wagon is/was stencilled ROYAL NAVY.
Yorkshire Dave
Western Thunderer
I read somewhere this may be due to the quality of the steel produced for the vessels at that time then was better than the quality of steel produced later.
Osgood
Western Thunderer
I think the only difference was that the armour plate scrap attracted a premium - perhaps the alloying elements helped in this respect?
Some background info in these links if anyone is interested:
Salvage Operations : Scapa Flow
Salvaging German Fleet at Scapa Flow
Rob Pulham
Western Thunderer
It's actually more interesting than that, they still recover odd bits and pieces especially from the engine rooms because since the second world war it's one of the few sources of steel that isn't irradiated and it's used for surgical instruments - presumably being deep under water has prevented radiation from the many atomic bombs that have been set off since the war from affecting the steel there.
I too have dived the High Seas fleet and spent a lot of time between dives at the museum on Lyness. Although it looks to have been developed significantly since I was there.
Osgood
Western Thunderer
How interesting, Rob - used only for a specific type of instrument: Low-background steel - Wikipedia