Scale7 running quality.

[Heather Kay]

this has happened to me before where I have been left hanging and all it does is create suspicion about running reliability. If you see what I mean[/quote]

I can understand your reticence about running reliability, coming from P4. That said, I don't think there is an issue with it in S7. Things are larger, so even using a scale flange things tend to remain on the rails better. There's also the extra mass in 7mm scale.

You don't need major engineering machinery to model S7. I am testament to that, though I do have access to a pillar drill, a small milling machine and a lathe. Most of my S7 modelling is done with the normal modelling tools we all have.

The standards are there, have been codified for 25 years now, and work. I am happy to say running quality of S7 stock on S7 track is markedly superior to fine scale. Let's not muddy the issue with 31.5 as that's just a way of improving FS running without changing the gauge.

There are two S7 members who offer wheel reprofiling (bear in mind, too, that wagon and coach wheels are readily available to S7 from the trade), though one is looking to wind down operations. Colin Dowling (known as EastSidePilot round these parts) is the man to talk to.

Being a member of the S7G offers a useful network of like minded modellers, many of whom are active on this forum as well. Whatever problem you may encounter you can bet someone else has been there, done it and got the t-shirt. As a member you get a quarterly journal, and a discount at Slater's if you produce your membership card. It's not to sniffed at.

 

[SimonT]

Hester.
At the risk of a slapped wrist from the gang of mods on line at the moment, just go for it. I have built five small layouts in S7, one of which was based on Vic Berry's scrap yard. This layout deliberately had uneven, twisted, kinked and out gauge track to get up the nose of some of the prophets of S7. It ran well at about 20 exhibitions and the occasional wagon that fell off was put back on by running against the crossing V, just as at Vics. The locos didn't fall off.

I currently have a large amount of Aberbeeg. At the Leeds show we had no failures or derailments. We are out at Nottingham on 15-16 Mar and I expect the same performance. It features 75" diameter curves and we back 15-18 vehicle trains over crossings and into the yard. At Leeds, in the last hour, I backed all 48 coal wagons and a brake back down the hill while titting about double and triple heading the train up the hill. This train dropped some wagons off due to a stuck buffer when the train came off the 90 degree bend onto the straight fiddle yard.

There are others who have done similar in S7. If you are at Nottingham, come for a chat.

Microphone OFF.

Now back on topic and time for a bijou wheels grenade. Where are the S7 diesel wheels I was asked about and promised three years ago?

Simon

 

[Osgood]

..... the occasional wagon that fell off was put back on by running against the crossing V, just as at Vics. .....

No excuses, Hester - just get on with it!

 

[7mmMick]

I can see both points of the argument here, if that`s what it is, and a Scale 7 Castle is tugging at my heart strings. However, I have been at this cross roads between finescale and S7 before and 7mmMick taunting me on my first thread has rekindled the flame as it were. To move forward on this decision I need a couple of questions answered and one very honestly one please !

1) Are the S7 wheels on quartered axles or prototypical ones and who manufactures them ?.
2) My quandary is I will have to purchase wheels from Slaters in the post, then send them probably back south again to someone who can re-profile them and have them sent back, as 7mmMick says, your current range is limited.
3) What`s the benefit of joining the S7 group that makes it any better than ALL the kind support on this group ?
4) And this is the biggy ! Just how many of you have less than restrictive layouts not in a group but individuals, at home with space constraints with small radii, have something more than just a slightly curved end to end, and truly honestly enjoy frequent running without the loco`s and stock jumping off the track as with P4 ?

I ask all this because I am not likely to join my local railway modeller`s group as I have in the past as more talk that work gets done which is fine for a social gathering, but more importantly my work commitments just gets in the way. The locos` that I would build in S7 would only ever be any use to me as to sell them on afterwards is probably unlikely to find any buyers on the basis that, rightly or wrongly, I suspect most if not all S7 members are skilled enough to be in the S7 circle on their own merits anyway.
I like the unevenness of track and watching sprung loco`s lurch now and again hence my interest in colliery railways. I will be devastated to find I built my dream layout only to find I needed a laser to align the track afterwards.

I would like the collectives honest experiences please, not just to put me off, but to be prepared if and when I take the plunge which as 7mmMick has said, it may as well be now ! My colliery diorama could be a good starting point as I am limited for space and curvature.

Thank You in advance.

Hester

Hi Hester,

I know you've heard from me already but I'll answer your questions directly and keep on topic initially and wander off a bit. Apologies mods but this one is quite hot so I wanted to get stuck in.

I had this very dylemer a few years ago and asked the same questions you did, this is my personal opinion and from what I know here's the answers;

1) The wheels in this thread, that the Society supply are made by Slaters. They are on quartered axes as per the OF ones but obviously are finished to S7 standards. What also is better about these wheels is that the rear spokes are also profiled so present a more accurate wheel all round. Maybe some one can post a picture? In my opinion these new wheels look a lot better than the OF wheels as the rear spoke profile is flat.

2) Both Chris and Colin re profile and yes it has to be done by post, however the turn around is quick and really is a reasonable price. Best speaking to Coiln (eastsidepilot) about this as he offers much more than just a re profile, the hub can be thined, the socket screw made neater etc. I generally try and hand over wheels at shows or when I go to group meetings which Colin is a member of ( no where near as often as I would like ). I was sceptical about this also, but it's honestly not been a problem.

3) The news letter is good, you get dicounts, the S7 stores supply really useful items and the support network is fantastic. It's by no means essential but again for me I like to social side and everyone is helpful and friendly.

4) I am by no means an expert on Pway but I will share my experiences. This is was my first S7 wagon and as you can see the wheel base is long;



This is a straight Connoisseur kit build with just the addition od exactoscale sprung w-irons. I took it down to west Mersea, which is the club layout of the Sudbury S7 Group to see how well it ran, or if it ran at all? And to see if I bought into S7 ( being an EM modeller before and not totally buying the P4 concept for reaons you have mentioned ). It got coupled in a long train which was pulled by a J68 tank through a series of points accros several roads, no derailments of any kind and it was pulled and then propelled back through several times. The running qualitites were fantastic and with everything sprung etc it just looked lovely. I was totally sold. As for a layout I don't have one yet and I know with S7 you can't have tight radius curves but that doesn't bother me as I want the track work to look as prototypical as it can.

For me I model S7 as I found coming back into the Hobby that I had no existing stock, speaking to OF modellers many of them said if they started again they would go S7, I model 7mm because I love the detail and S7 allows me to build locos and stock with prototypical flanges and frame widths ( lots more room to fit insid motion ) and as above I loved the running qualitites. Of course there are lots of excellent OF layouts and modellers about and OF is much more widley supported, but for me personally S7 just makes sense.

Apologies again Mods, please feel free to move these posts elsewhere if appropriate. Hester I would give it a while for more folk to catch the thread and that way the more replies the more of an informed decision you can make, oh and have a look on You tube at some of the westmersea videos for example of running stock;

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/lrFi5gLN-Io?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

ATB Mick

 

[7mmMick]

Sorry everyone, not sure how to just get the video on and had to quote the lot so I could read all the points properly, bloody iPhone !!

Mick

 

[Hester]

Hi,

Can we keep this thread on topic please - it is very specific title - Scale7 wheel plans.

If there are queries about running reliability of "to scale" standards this is probably best served with a specific thread in it's own right. In the meantime just searching on Western Thunder for Croscombe Magna or West Mersea should provide the answer for Scale7.

Yes Sergeant !
But in my defence, if you had not mentioned Croscombe Magna or West Mersea to be scale 7, I would never of known that being new to this parish !

Hester

 

[Hester]

this has happened to me before where I have been left hanging and all it does is create suspicion about running reliability. If you see what I mean

I can understand your reticence about running reliability, coming from P4. That said, I don't think there is an issue with it in S7. Things are larger, so even using a scale flange things tend to remain on the rails better. There's also the extra mass in 7mm scale.

You don't need major engineering machinery to model S7. I am testament to that, though I do have access to a pillar drill, a small milling machine and a lathe. Most of my S7 modelling is done with the normal modelling tools we all have.

The standards are there, have been codified for 25 years now, and work. I am happy to say running quality of S7 stock on S7 track is markedly superior to fine scale. Let's not muddy the issue with 31.5 as that's just a way of improving FS running without changing the gauge.

There are two S7 members who offer wheel reprofiling (bear in mind, too, that wagon and coach wheels are readily available to S7 from the trade), though one is looking to wind down operations. Colin Dowling (known as EastSidePilot round these parts) is the man to talk to.

Being a member of the S7G offers a useful network of like minded modellers, many of whom are active on this forum as well. Whatever problem you may encounter you can bet someone else has been there, done it and got the t-shirt. As a member you get a quarterly journal, and a discount at Slater's if you produce your membership card. It's not to sniffed at.[/quote]


Heather, thank you for your informative reply.
P4 did put me off and I was hoping that the shear weight of 7mm in S7 form would overcome previous problems.

Hester

 

[7mmMick]

These posts have been moved from the Thread on S7 wheels.

We did ask you to stay on Topic in that Thread...

Wrist slapped, cheers Joradn

Mick

 

[7mmMick]

You'll be shunted to the Back of the Class & made to play with a Big-big Hymek if you don't spell my name right...

Oops sorry ( ducks as board rubber bounces off the wall above my head )

 

[SimonT]

Hurrah, wrist slapped and sent to the back of the class at last. Thanks Joaradan!

 

[Hester]

This thread title should now read, Hester`s quandary, to scale 7 or not to scale 7, that is the question.

Moving on.
Yes, should I take the plunge now whilst I have no stock or loco`s ? It`s as good a time as any do you think ?
Thank you again to those who replied. Certain things happen or things we see, prompt us to make decisions.
I mentioned the scale 7 Castle only because I once saw a broadside view at Swindon Wks and the wheels looked particularly fine at the rims and if this could be reproduced in S7, then Bob`s my auntie.
As I said in my opening welcome/hello thread, I have no real affection for one particular railway company over another and so my build choices are endless. However, I cannot get away with Gresley`s A4`s or the LMS Coronations nor of course the SR Spam Cans. Don`t look right !
My only real concerns are running reliability, and yes 7mmMick, you may of just tipped me over the edge into the Scale 7 abyss.
Okay I may as well come clean, I ashamedly confess to being a bit of a rivet counter. There, said it , done. So, I personally feel I would fit into the Scale 7 ethos. I say that with good intention. I will also need help here from the collective if I may, as I know nowt about nothing !

Hi, my name is Hester. I`m your new apprentice !

 

[7mmMick]

Okay I may as well come clean, I ashamedly confess to being a bit of a rivet counter. There, said it , done. So, I personally feel I would fit into the Scale 7 ethos. I say that with good intention.

Nowt wrong with that Hester, there's a bit of rivet counter in all of us !

Mick

 

[Heather Kay]

These posts have been moved from the Thread on S7 wheels.

We did ask you to stay on Topic in that Thread...

I accept the detention, though I will say my reply crossed with Adrian's.

 

[Dog Star]

I have got a tuppence worth... my view is that vehicles built to S7 standards work and can be seen to work. Stock "glides" through crossings without bumps and wobbles.

Do not expect S7 to be a panacea to "S7 scale/gauge" stock / track which is not built with recognition of the S7 standards ... nor to a format which would not work in 12":1'. If you build track which would have check rails in the real world then check rails are going to be needed in the model. If the prototype would not negotiate curves below 4 (or 5 or 6...) chains then do not expect / try to get a S7 model to run on the equivalent of Hornby Radius 2 curves.

I build to S7 standards because I like the finer appearance of track and of the relationship between frames / wheels / rail.

best wishes, Graham

 

[Steph Dale]

I can understand your reticence about running reliability, coming from P4.

I must confess I don't understand that comment - can someone please explain?
I modelled in P4 and P:87 for many years before jumping to 0-gauge and never had a problem with running reliability. In fact, with the better defined standards than 7mm f/s in some ways it ran better!

Steph

 

[SteveO]

This is a question I'm struggling with at the moment – not that I doubt whether S7 vehicles run well, but whether to go this route at all.

Although I err on the side of 0F for convenience, I do really like the look of S7 wheels (look at Mick's wagon above). There's also the largely self-induced notion that you have to be a really good modeller to 'do it'. The expectation is that to model to true scale gauge your models have to be exquisite and perfect. I don't necessarily subscribe to that – in fact, I definitely know that I can't achieve that.

Also, in relation to poor P4 performance, mass has a stubborn relationship with scale. I would guess, although I'm no mathematician, that you would have to scale up mass to be proportionate with the difference in scale.

 

[Heather Kay]

I must confess I don't understand that comment

Consider it slightly tongue in cheek. P4 sometimes has a reputation for awkward moments, shall we say. I think it's unfortunate that the scale is not as forgiving to poorly constructed permanent way, and I have admired some very sweetly-run P4 and S4 layouts over the years.

 

[Dan Randall]

I've only scanned this thread quickly and apologise if this has been mentioned already, but Slater's are happy to mail your newly purchased wheels directly to whoever you choose to do your re-profiling, thus saving you one lot of postage costs.


Regards

Dan

 

[Hester]

I've only scanned this thread quickly and apologise if this has been mentioned already, but Slater's are happy to mail your newly purchased wheels directly to whoever you choose to do your re-profiling, thus saving you one lot of postage costs.


Regards

Dan

Dan, Thank you, must right that down.

Note to self, ` Dan is an exponent of excellent money saving tip`.

Done.
Regards Hester

 

[Hester]

This is a question I'm struggling with at the moment – not that I doubt whether S7 vehicles run well, but whether to go this route at all.

Although I err on the side of 0F for convenience, I do really like the look of S7 wheels (look at Mick's wagon above). There's also the largely self-induced notion that you have to be a really good modeller to 'do it'. The expectation is that to model to true scale gauge your models have to be exquisite and perfect. I don't necessarily subscribe to that – in fact, I definitely know that I can't achieve that.

Also, in relation to poor P4 performance, mass has a stubborn relationship with scale. I would guess, although I'm no mathematician, that you would have to scale up mass to be proportionate with the difference in scale.

Steve,
I will be the guinea pig here on your behalf in full view of all. If I can do it, then there`s hope for everyone !

Watch this space.

Hester