LarryG's general album
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LarryG
Western Thunderer
Thanks Rob. One from the Standedge route over the Pennines. The area around Greenfield was an easy escape from industrial Oldham when I was a child and I continue to visit the old West Riding of Yorkshire on occasions. One such was to see the steam hauled 'Trans-Pennine Pullman' hauled by Black Five No. 5305 on 3rd October 1981. I worked my way through dense vegetation up the old path to the long-closed Saddleworth Station and so had the platform to myself as 5305 thundered through on the climb to Diggle...
LarryG
Western Thunderer
Hi Rob, Digital technology is very clever and it is certainly extremely useful when photographing models. But out beside the railway tracks I think I was doing better work with a simple manual 'box', a hand-held incident light meter and a roll of Tri-X than anything I dun on digital. The old waist-level viewfinder must have helped me form better compositions or something.
Photo technology in film days remained pretty static and good from what I saw from the variety of old medium-format cameras that I bought. Roy Dock also collected ancient cameras and I used one that was built before World War One. The lens was remarkably sharp almost right across the field. Learning about the building blocks of photography on manual cameras and the way light works is not everyone's cup of tea.
Those medium format cameras gave between 8 and 15 frames on a roll of film, so you made damn sure you really wanted to take a picture before pressing the shutter button. Today I merrily bang off digital pictures just for the hell of it and delete most of them after downloading 'em onto a PC.
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Tim Humphreys ex Mudhen
Western Thunderer
Hi Rob, Digital technology is very clever and it is certainly extremely useful when photographing models. But out beside the railway tracks I think I was doing better work with a simple manual 'box', a hand-held incident light meter and a roll of Tri-X than anything I dun on digital. The old waist-level viewfinder must have helped me form better compositions or something.
Photo technology in film days remained pretty static and good from what I saw from the variety of old medium-format cameras that I bought. Roy Dock also collected ancient cameras and I used one that was built before World War One. The lens was remarkably sharp almost right across the field. Learning about the building blocks of photography on manual cameras and the way light works is not everyone's cup of tea.
Those medium format cameras gave between 8 and 15 frames on a roll of film, so you made damn sure you really wanted to take a picture before pressing the shutter button. Today I merrily bang off digital pictures just for the hell of it and delete most of them after downloading 'em onto a PC.
Larry,
You make some very good points. Whilst out taking photos of trains and wildlife my observation is that little time is spent on compensation over taking as many photos as possible in the hope that one will be OK. I've fallen for this in the past but am slowly learning. Exposure also gets ignored on the basis that it can be sorted out on the computer, far better to start with a well exposed picture. Some post back you mentioned experimenting with a 400mm lens. Again I reckon the use of long zoom lenses has a lot to answer for, too much foreshortening of the picture for starters. I was told years ago that the best way to get a closer image is to move nearer to it and except for wildlife shots that is what I try and do. A herd of bison is pretty scary up close
. I use a Canon full frame digital camera but often use a Fuji compact with a 35mm fixed focal length lens, it makes me think much more.Apologies for droning on and keep posting your great pictures, I love them,
all the best
Tim
Larry, I am enjoying your photo treasure trove, and the entertaining comments!
Reviewing the merits of digital vs analogue, the one thing that analogue film gives is accessibility. I recently recovered a box of several hundred of my 35mm films taken in the 1960's which had been stored in a friends attic. The environmental conditions were far from ideal, but the negs were perfectly usable even after fifty years in storage. They were also perfectly and simply 'readable', in a way that digital files would not be. I doubt that my digital files will be similarly accessible in fifty years time. Plus the quantity of the digital data that needs to be archived is becoming simply overwhelming.
I would also heartily agree with Larry that the quality of image delivered by older equipment is often outstanding, especially when assessed on their relative cost against modern DSLRs. A relatively cheap medium format camera, such as the Mamiya C330 that I used for years produced outstanding results. It may well be that few people will be interested in producing the quality required for 12x16 inch prints anymore, when most images are viewed on a computer screen. It remains however that an analogue image, when properly exposed and developed is a lasting thing of beauty in itself.
Peter
Reviewing the merits of digital vs analogue, the one thing that analogue film gives is accessibility. I recently recovered a box of several hundred of my 35mm films taken in the 1960's which had been stored in a friends attic. The environmental conditions were far from ideal, but the negs were perfectly usable even after fifty years in storage. They were also perfectly and simply 'readable', in a way that digital files would not be. I doubt that my digital files will be similarly accessible in fifty years time. Plus the quantity of the digital data that needs to be archived is becoming simply overwhelming.
I would also heartily agree with Larry that the quality of image delivered by older equipment is often outstanding, especially when assessed on their relative cost against modern DSLRs. A relatively cheap medium format camera, such as the Mamiya C330 that I used for years produced outstanding results. It may well be that few people will be interested in producing the quality required for 12x16 inch prints anymore, when most images are viewed on a computer screen. It remains however that an analogue image, when properly exposed and developed is a lasting thing of beauty in itself.
Peter
LarryG
Western Thunderer
46229 Duchess of Hamilton was helping celebrate the 150th anniversary of 'Mail by Rail' on 11th November 1980 and I went to the spot where I had photographed a Fairburn 2-6-4T in 1961 (posted 12th January). The loco was making a terrific noise as it climbed to Diggle through Greenfield...
The leading coach is the National Railway Museums preserved ex.LNWR Royal Train brake first...
The leading coach is the National Railway Museums preserved ex.LNWR Royal Train brake first...
LarryG
Western Thunderer
Royal Scot No. 6115 Scots Guardsman was on a trial run following restoration at Dinting Railway Centre. Pictured is dismal weather passing Edale en route to Sheffield on 21st September 1979...
Entering Chinley station on the return run from Sheffield. The tender was still awaiting painting...
And finally, Carnforth motive power depot in the 1970's. I had driven up there to see GWR No. 4079 Pendennis Castle before it left Britain for Hammersley Iron Ore Pty. in Australia nd hung around to watch other engines at the event. I took this shot of 4472 Flying Scotsman for one of my early letterheads. A red filter was used to make the red lining more prominent. (Olympus OM1 and Tri-X)
So that's it really. My hobby had become my day job and so I went into serious photography for relaxation. It wasn't always relaxing working for magazine editors, but it opened many door, brought me some lasting friendships and was never without its humour.
Entering Chinley station on the return run from Sheffield. The tender was still awaiting painting...
And finally, Carnforth motive power depot in the 1970's. I had driven up there to see GWR No. 4079 Pendennis Castle before it left Britain for Hammersley Iron Ore Pty. in Australia nd hung around to watch other engines at the event. I took this shot of 4472 Flying Scotsman for one of my early letterheads. A red filter was used to make the red lining more prominent. (Olympus OM1 and Tri-X)
So that's it really. My hobby had become my day job and so I went into serious photography for relaxation. It wasn't always relaxing working for magazine editors, but it opened many door, brought me some lasting friendships and was never without its humour.
Dave Holt
Western Thunderer
I'm fairly sure I was on that Scots Guardsman trip - I certainly had trip over the Hope Valley line behind it when it was at Dinting. It may have been a dismal day but it was certainly a dismal loco performance. Considering what a great reputation re-built Scots had, 6115 must have been having an off day with a very lackluster performance. never troubled the imposed speed limit, even on favourable grades.
Keep the wonderful photos coming, please, Larry.
Dave.
Keep the wonderful photos coming, please, Larry.
Dave.
LarryG
Western Thunderer
Hi Dave, The weather brightened up later in the day except for one aspect, I locked myself out of the car in Chinley station yard. After taking the photos above, I went round to a garage and asked to borrow a No.8 welding rod to get back into the car. "I gotta see this" said the garage owner. He took a welding rod too but I got in before him. "Were are you from, Liverpool?" he asked.
JimG
Western Thunderer
That brings back memories.
BBC Scotland were making a program about the Flying Scotsman and I was part of a film crew down from Glasgow in the mid-1970s to film a few shots of the loco at Carnforth and also to get more footage of the journey to Barrow-in-Furness to get boilerwork done. We got a fair bit of detail footage of the loco going up and down the sidings at Carnforth and I even perched myself on the front buffer beam to get sound effects of the motion work when in motion. I think I had to sign a blood chit. The filming all came to a bit of an embarrassing end when we were filming the arrival at the works in Barrow. The loco quite literally ground to a halt on a very tight curve leading into a shed and the film crew were hastily shepherded out. We never got to see her again on the day.
Both the cameraman an I were railway modellers and we could have told them that they would never have got the loco round the curve with scale flanges and flanges on the centre drivers. Jim.
Focalplane
Western Thunderer
Wonderful photos!
I too visited Carnforth during the 1970s when on leave from work in Singapore. With young children we decided to stay at an old fieldwork haunt during my 1967 PhD mapping around what was then called Westmorland. The hotel in Ravenstonedale refused us as we had children in tow. Dogs, however, would have been welcomed. In the end we stayed at a very nice farmhouse B&B. As well as visiting Shap which by then held no railway interest, we stopped off at Carnforth on the way south. My choice of film in those days was Kodachrome which unfortunately was subject to fungal attack when stored in the tropics - we had no air conditioning back then. Also, Kodachrome doesn't scan well though I think it works better when scanned from the "wrong" side. I didn't know that at the time I scanned the few slides I had taken.
I won't reveal them on your thread, Larry, but there was an A4 in garter blue, the Flying Scotsman, a Black 5 Mickey and an "LMS" liveried Ivatt 2MT. Carnforth shed in those days was open to visitors who showed up, how things have changed.
On a different tack, I too think that we composed better photographs when using film. We zoomed by walking forward or backward to get a full frame shot, cropping wasn't an option much of the time. We used tripods. I only had primes but they were better lenses than later zooms that I bough in the 1990s (the Nikon 24-120 zoom was infamous for poor quality). I still have a 200mm f4 Nikkor I bought second hand and will never part with it. The f2.8 60mm Micro Nikkor remains for all close up work.
And film and processing was expensive.
I too visited Carnforth during the 1970s when on leave from work in Singapore. With young children we decided to stay at an old fieldwork haunt during my 1967 PhD mapping around what was then called Westmorland. The hotel in Ravenstonedale refused us as we had children in tow. Dogs, however, would have been welcomed. In the end we stayed at a very nice farmhouse B&B. As well as visiting Shap which by then held no railway interest, we stopped off at Carnforth on the way south. My choice of film in those days was Kodachrome which unfortunately was subject to fungal attack when stored in the tropics - we had no air conditioning back then. Also, Kodachrome doesn't scan well though I think it works better when scanned from the "wrong" side. I didn't know that at the time I scanned the few slides I had taken.
I won't reveal them on your thread, Larry, but there was an A4 in garter blue, the Flying Scotsman, a Black 5 Mickey and an "LMS" liveried Ivatt 2MT. Carnforth shed in those days was open to visitors who showed up, how things have changed.
On a different tack, I too think that we composed better photographs when using film. We zoomed by walking forward or backward to get a full frame shot, cropping wasn't an option much of the time. We used tripods. I only had primes but they were better lenses than later zooms that I bough in the 1990s (the Nikon 24-120 zoom was infamous for poor quality). I still have a 200mm f4 Nikkor I bought second hand and will never part with it. The f2.8 60mm Micro Nikkor remains for all close up work.
And film and processing was expensive.
oldravendale
Western Thunderer
Just a quick comment about Kodachrome, if I may.
It's probably the most stable of colour emulsions because, simplistically, the dyes are not in the manufactured film but are introduced during processing in a technique not a million miles from Technicolor so can be more stable than photographic dyes. Certainly the colour in my my Kodachrome slides has fared much better than Ektachome taken at the same time, but Ektachrome had the benefit of several emulsions of considerably higher speed than Kodachrome. Kodachrome can scan very well but is a relatively high contrast film so may need some measure of contrast control applied either during the scan or in some sort of post-processing - it's one of the reasons it never duplicated very well.
As for fungal attack, in high temperature, humid conditions every film emulsion is an ideal breeding ground for fungus, after all gelatin is an ideal medium for growing bacteria. I can assure you that Kodachrome is not especially susceptible but, as with all things, two films stored close together may well demonstrate different storage characteristics.
Most of my photos were taken on Kodacolor negative film because I preferred prints and reversal films were never great for printing. Some of those strips of negative have suffered deterioration, though, both from dye fade and fungal attack when the negative album in which they were stored became damp during an accident with a dehumidifier which overflowed under the bookcase in which they were stored.
Interestingly (or perhaps not) there are still quite a few photographers, both amateur and professional who prefer to use film. There's a story (which JimG may be able to confirm) told by the Head of Film at Ealing BBC Studios about a plan, soon after the introduction of tape rather than film recording to send all the crews out over Christmas to record what people who were working were doing on Christmas day. Tape was so inexpensive that crews shot miles of the stuff and the result was so cumbersome that it was found to be impossible to edit. Film, because of its expense, pretty well automatically imposes some sort of discipline.
True movies are also still made, although in volume terms certainly many fewer than even 15 years ago. As an example Christopher Nolan prefers his movies to be shot on film for the discipline and "look".
Brian
It's probably the most stable of colour emulsions because, simplistically, the dyes are not in the manufactured film but are introduced during processing in a technique not a million miles from Technicolor so can be more stable than photographic dyes. Certainly the colour in my my Kodachrome slides has fared much better than Ektachome taken at the same time, but Ektachrome had the benefit of several emulsions of considerably higher speed than Kodachrome. Kodachrome can scan very well but is a relatively high contrast film so may need some measure of contrast control applied either during the scan or in some sort of post-processing - it's one of the reasons it never duplicated very well.
As for fungal attack, in high temperature, humid conditions every film emulsion is an ideal breeding ground for fungus, after all gelatin is an ideal medium for growing bacteria. I can assure you that Kodachrome is not especially susceptible but, as with all things, two films stored close together may well demonstrate different storage characteristics.
Most of my photos were taken on Kodacolor negative film because I preferred prints and reversal films were never great for printing. Some of those strips of negative have suffered deterioration, though, both from dye fade and fungal attack when the negative album in which they were stored became damp during an accident with a dehumidifier which overflowed under the bookcase in which they were stored.
Interestingly (or perhaps not) there are still quite a few photographers, both amateur and professional who prefer to use film. There's a story (which JimG may be able to confirm) told by the Head of Film at Ealing BBC Studios about a plan, soon after the introduction of tape rather than film recording to send all the crews out over Christmas to record what people who were working were doing on Christmas day. Tape was so inexpensive that crews shot miles of the stuff and the result was so cumbersome that it was found to be impossible to edit. Film, because of its expense, pretty well automatically imposes some sort of discipline.
True movies are also still made, although in volume terms certainly many fewer than even 15 years ago. As an example Christopher Nolan prefers his movies to be shot on film for the discipline and "look".
Brian
LarryG
Western Thunderer
I agree film does instill a discipline and none more so than medium-format. Les Nixon and Gavin Morrison got 12 frames from their Pentax 6X7, while Brian Morrison got probably 15 from his Bronica. For me, the 6X7 was far too heavy to lug around for what it delivered and depth of field was limited too. The Mamiya 645 with waist level finder was ideal as it weighed next to now't with having no glass prism. But I never really abandoned 35mm in film days, as it had its uses particularly with colour trannies.
When BR changed so dramatically at the end of 1964, that was pretty well it for over some thirteen years. After buying an SLR in 1976, a crummy Sulzer Type 2 was in one of the photos and a friend told me I had shot a Class 24. "They are getting rare" he told me. That was enough for me. "Diesels are being scrapped?" I went out one morning for a loaf and ended up miles away in Holyhead after chasing a Class 24. The bug had bitten and just at the right time. Most of the Hydraulics had already gone, but at least I could feast on, 24's, 25's, 40's and Peaks. Wow!
When BR changed so dramatically at the end of 1964, that was pretty well it for over some thirteen years. After buying an SLR in 1976, a crummy Sulzer Type 2 was in one of the photos and a friend told me I had shot a Class 24. "They are getting rare" he told me. That was enough for me. "Diesels are being scrapped?" I went out one morning for a loaf and ended up miles away in Holyhead after chasing a Class 24. The bug had bitten and just at the right time. Most of the Hydraulics had already gone, but at least I could feast on, 24's, 25's, 40's and Peaks. Wow!
Focalplane
Western Thunderer
Brian
You are right about Kodachrome not being the only film attacked by fungus. They all were. I also used a lot of colour negative film, by Sakura because it was cheaper in Asia. The negatives were stored in Patterson brand sleeves and all are ruined. I only have prints left and they have faded.
Today digital is a blessing but I am not sure it’s better than film even with the latest cameras? I met this guy in photography heaven, aka New Mexico, and we took portraits of each other. We forgot to exchange addresses so I never saw his shot!
You are right about Kodachrome not being the only film attacked by fungus. They all were. I also used a lot of colour negative film, by Sakura because it was cheaper in Asia. The negatives were stored in Patterson brand sleeves and all are ruined. I only have prints left and they have faded.
Today digital is a blessing but I am not sure it’s better than film even with the latest cameras? I met this guy in photography heaven, aka New Mexico, and we took portraits of each other. We forgot to exchange addresses so I never saw his shot!
JimG
Western Thunderer
I can confirm that much the same happened in BBC Bristol. When ENG (Electronic News Gathering) started in Bristol, several stories were lost in the editing suites because the editors lost too much time wading through too much material. In film days, the news crew would tend to shoot an interview on one ten minute, 400ft roll of Ektachrome - about five minutes for the interview, a couple of minutes on cutaway questions and the remainder on other descriptive shots. When they started using tape, with thirty minute cassettes, reporters and cameraman pretty well ran riot since tape was cheap. The result was that editors were being landed with huge amounts of material to wade through, and in some cases stories didn't make it to transmission. I remember watching one interview which went on for almost twenty minutes and the poor interviewee had started to glaze over after ten minutes. We got round it initially by ordering up ten minute tapes and issuing limited amounts of them to try to instill the old discipline and it did work after a while, but I remember being left with a stock of ten minute tapes which I couldn't get rid of when they had all learned to behave themselves and could be trusted with longer tapes.
Jim.
LarryG
Western Thunderer
A Manor heads a parcels train through the Welsh countryside on the Llangollen line on 28th March 1993. I was out enjoying using an elderly Pentacon Six 6X6 camera and a 180mm/f2.8 Jena lens, one of the sharpest lenses even at full aperture I have ever experienced...
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LarryG
Western Thunderer
I arrived at Llangollen just in time to snap No.7822 Foxcote Manor storming away from Glyndyfrdwy on 28th March 1993. No smoke by arrangement on my photos. I worked alone and preferred to photograph things as they were. These photos were taken in the days of trackside passes. The Pentacon 6 gave a square format and was useful for capturing sky-high smoke effects.
LarryG
Western Thunderer
Newly restored Class 25 No. 25313 in harness with 25279, were climbing away from Glyndyfrdwy with the 15.05 to Llangollen on 23rd October 1993 . Pentax 6X7 (Tri-X) ...
Exhaust from 7822 Foxcote Manor swirls around the woods near Deeside as it works a Down parcels train on 28th March 1993...
Steam aplenty on a miserable day at Glyndyfrdwy as A4 60009 passes two freights waiting in the sidings...
Exhaust from 7822 Foxcote Manor swirls around the woods near Deeside as it works a Down parcels train on 28th March 1993...
Steam aplenty on a miserable day at Glyndyfrdwy as A4 60009 passes two freights waiting in the sidings...
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LarryG
Western Thunderer
GWR Small Prairie No. 4566 was working hard past Deeside Halt. Cylinder thrust sent these particular locos rocking from side to side and it can be seen here...
Exchanging single line tokens at Llangollen Goods Junction. I wonder if A4's worked tender first at any time in BR days...?
Class 24 No.25081 was familiar to me on the North Wales mainline and so it was neat to see it back at work in preservation. Seen from Deeside signalbox, the loco was shunting the Goods Junction yard on 19th September 1993. Brendan Mullen, the owner, had passed away the month previously and the family had put the loco up for sale. A major factor in the sale was its asbestos contamination, which had not been removed at the time of withdrawal from BR in 1980...
Exchanging single line tokens at Llangollen Goods Junction. I wonder if A4's worked tender first at any time in BR days...?
Class 24 No.25081 was familiar to me on the North Wales mainline and so it was neat to see it back at work in preservation. Seen from Deeside signalbox, the loco was shunting the Goods Junction yard on 19th September 1993. Brendan Mullen, the owner, had passed away the month previously and the family had put the loco up for sale. A major factor in the sale was its asbestos contamination, which had not been removed at the time of withdrawal from BR in 1980...
